Homebrew authors vs Walkthroughs

[Morkin]

This is the bit I like most as well, seeing people talk about how they progress through a game. I think you can have both though. I can't see how these walkthroughs spoil anything, unless one assumes that every player is so malleable that they can't stop themselves watching and being brainwashed by it.

This is exactly it for me.

Some authors may have negative feelings towards a speedy .rzx broadcast (and whose wishes I would respect if I was even good enough to complete a game in less than two weeks!), but I don't see any evidence that it would have anything other than a positive effect in promoting your game.

I personally struggle to keep up with new homebrew releases nowadays, let alone play them all - there are so many! I understand authors wanting players to savour their games after their hard work, but the reality for me is that I'll do this for the odd game and play it to completion (if I really like it), maybe have a quick go on a few others that look interesting.

[8BitAG]

Interesting debate. I remember us having a similar one a quarter of a century ago on the pages of Adventure Probe...


I'm just happy if anyone bothers to play something, these days.

[highrise]

A little more context - in a past life I spent fifteen years working as a grass roots music promoter, encouraging young bands to get out there and make music. These days, pandemic aside, I run a school which helps young people qualify for University. Of course I'm not a saint and I have to earn a living, but the real reason I do this work, and the thing I get the most satisfaction from is encouraging people to educate themselves and engage in the creative process, and for them to get as much pleasure and satisfaction as I do from that.

This is why I do the work I do with AGDx and tutorial videos. It may not get huge views or downloads (usually a few hundred), but I like to think that each of those views might represent someone who goes on to make a new game. It's certainly true that the Spectrum homebrew scene is probably as active and lively as it has ever been, and I feel satisfied that I have contributed to that in some way, and that a number of authors are willing for me to speak on their behalf.

Creating an environment in which authors are happy with the relationship they have with players has always been my main motivation here, and many of the authors I work with tell me that they feel instant walkthroughs devalue their work and discourage them. You may not agree with this stance, but if you want to encourage the creativity and work involved, I feel these views should be honoured.

[highrise]

...and one more point...

Homebrew authors do not have the luxury of a big team of testers that can assess the game and find any bugs. A two week window gives them a chance to respond to bugs that were missed, and potentially to tweak the game and make a 'final' release which can then be given an appropriate walkthrough video.

So essentially, as I said in a Facebook post, this is about creating a window in which authors can bask in the sunlight of their new release without someone pissing on their fire, respond to bug reports and feedback before releasing a final version that can be given a walkthrough, at which point they can shuffle back happily into their cave to start a new one.

[catmeows]

Interesting. I quite understand how complete walkthroughs can spoil some games by revealing story twist, secret room or boss (es). Still, I think it is player's decision how he want to consume the game content, be it playing game oř watching walkthrough. And if anyone want to prevent people watching walkthroughs he would do better to design game in that way single walkthrough can not reveal everything.
Because, let face it, video walkthroughs are not going anywhere.

[Ralf]

Highrise, in my opinion, you make much too much noise about it.

You don't want walkthroughs of your games? That's your right. Just say it loud before you release your games and
all reputable sites like RzxArchive will honour it.

Most other people aren't as sensitive as you about this stuff so people make and upload walkthroughs by default.

What's more to add?

[Alessandro]

and I'm pretty sure I can add Alessandro Grusso to the list as well, though I didn't speak to him directly.

Sorry Allan, but why didn't you contact me about that as well then? I guess what I wrote earlier was enough for you (By the way, my family name ends with an U). Anyway, I don't wish to bore anyone by repeating myself; as of now, I would state exactly the same things I wrote in the other thread. I would just like to say again that one week's pause is fine to me. That's the agreement I reached with Daren when Sophia was released almost three years ago. Being the author, I think to be entitled to express some ideas about how my humble contributions to the scene should be treated, and if something annoys me, I don't believe it's evil to propose a different course of action, provided that it doesn't harm anyone's enjoyment. A week's grace period could hardly do that. Of course, I don't pretend that my will should be the law for everybody else; if John Doe the Developer is happy with video walkthroughs of his games being published on Youtube a nanosecond after he releases them, or if he politely asks that such videos should be published a week, two weeks or a month after they have been released, well, who am I to argue?

About the modifications that can occur after the release of walkthrough videos, I'll just add my 2 Euro cents. One of such videos for Sophia II shows the game as it was after the first release, without some modifications, like the new sprite for the main character in the second level, that were applied after that. I would never ask that video to be deleted for that reason; I just added a comment stating that there was a new version and what was new. Actually, there have been two new versions of the game after that video was published...

[highrise]

Sorry Alessandro, I will get your name right next time. Yes, what you wrote earlier was enough, but I still didn't want to add your name definitively. Peace and good health to all of you in Italy.

Anyway. the real point here is not how players feel about these instant walkthroughs. It's about how authors feel about them, because, according to the law, they are the ones who have the right to agree or disagree to them being published. Noone else has that right.

As interesting as this debate has been, the law is clear on this - there is no argument. Permission to broadcast must be granted, not assumed.

So I was never proposing a rule be put in place. That rule already exists. What I was suggesting was a compromise from authors that don't want walkthroughs to be published to show that they respect players and want to strike a fair balance.

[highrise]

Most other people aren't as sensitive as you about this stuff

As can be seen from the first post I made, this is not the case. I gave a list of names who have released dozens of titles over the last few years, who feel exactly the same way I do. A lot people who play these games do so in a casual way, but for those who write them it's a hobby they take seriously and spend a few hours each day coding.

[4thRock]

Second guessing author wishes is a bad strategy, but the authors also need to be proactive.

Perhaps they could add a "read-me" screen to their games, explaining the usage conditions ?
No need for complex legal stuff, just some plain text paragraphs about their wishes.

On other communities where I'm active (Orbiter Space Simulator add-ons) it works, because it allows one to define specific conditions - Ex: asset reuse, target platforms, attribution, etc.

[highrise]

yes, absolutely, and encouraging authors to be proactive and not just grumble quietly and accept something they are not comfortable with is the whole reason I started this. As I keep saying, because of my work with AGDx and that I run a facebook group for coders, I have something of an ear to the ground on this and know how they feel about it.

[highrise]

A few other thoughts, just to be clear about my motivations. Despite the title of the thread, it has never been my intention to create an us vs them situation. Just the opposite in fact. I remember a couple of years ago, the chap who makes the RZX archive contacted me to ask permission to post a video of Terrapins and i was happy to agree. I appreciated being asked and it's a useful service, especially for older games that may be lost.

It seems to me that with so many new games coming out, things have kind of slipped into permission being assumed rather than requested, and with the popularity of homebrew, a few more people have jumped on board with these complete instant walkthroughs. As a result quite a few authors are not comfortable with it, and that is their right.

This is why I posted. think there should be a reminder about just who is producing this content in the first place and that a reset back to asking for permission would be fair. The two week embargo was simply a suggestion of how to make this easier, given the number of games that come out.

[highrise]

As something of an addendum...

It's interesting the reaction I got on here (where I now fully appreciate that people don't know me or the work I do with a lot of homebrew authors), as compared to the reaction I got on the facebook groups I frequent (which are mostly homebrew authors who know me).

It made me realise that I may have unwittingly come across as someone who thinks they know better than others and wants them to do as I do, perhaps also as someone who is putting their own interests before other people's. Sometimes when you operate in a small group, you can start to assume that people know your motives and how you work, when in fact it's more likely that outside your circle they will judge you on their own experience of other people that they have direct experience of. Certainly this scene has had its share off people shouting the odds.

What I would say is this - I don't make that many games, I tend to favour working with tools and patches and helping other authors. The games are up until recently only a small part of my hobby time so these instant walkthroughs don't affect me a great deal personally. However, the work I do does bring me into contact with a lot of other developers, and what I was trying to say was that many of them felt they had no control over how their games were broadcast on Youtube, and they didn't like how these complete walkthrough videos came out so quickly. Most of them said there was nothing they could do about it, but I decided to try, because I believe they are the lifeblood of the scene and we should do everything we can to encourage them and make the experience a positive one for them.

I realise that for many people, it's all about the fun for the players, but if it isn't fun for the coders too, there will be less games to play.