Highrise, in my opinion, you make much too much noise about it.
You don't want walkthroughs of your games? That's your right. Just say it loud before you release your games and
all reputable sites like RzxArchive will honour it.
Most other people aren't as sensitive as you about this stuff so people make and upload walkthroughs by default.
What's more to add?
Homebrew authors vs Walkthroughs
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Alessandro
- Dynamite Dan
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Re: Homebrew authors vs Walkthroughs
Sorry Allan, but why didn't you contact me about that as well then? I guess what I wrote earlier was enough for you
(By the way, my family name ends with an U). Anyway, I don't wish to bore anyone by repeating myself; as of now, I would state exactly the same things I wrote in the other thread. I would just like to say again that one week's pause is fine to me. That's the agreement I reached with Daren when Sophia was released almost three years ago. Being the author, I think to be entitled to express some ideas about how my humble contributions to the scene should be treated, and if something annoys me, I don't believe it's evil to propose a different course of action, provided that it doesn't harm anyone's enjoyment. A week's grace period could hardly do that. Of course, I don't pretend that my will should be the law for everybody else; if John Doe the Developer is happy with video walkthroughs of his games being published on Youtube a nanosecond after he releases them, or if he politely asks that such videos should be published a week, two weeks or a month after they have been released, well, who am I to argue? About the modifications that can occur after the release of walkthrough videos, I'll just add my 2 Euro cents. One of such videos for Sophia II shows the game as it was after the first release, without some modifications, like the new sprite for the main character in the second level, that were applied after that. I would never ask that video to be deleted for that reason; I just added a comment stating that there was a new version and what was new. Actually, there have been two new versions of the game after that video was published...
Last edited by Alessandro on Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Homebrew authors vs Walkthroughs
Sorry Alessandro, I will get your name right next time. Yes, what you wrote earlier was enough, but I still didn't want to add your name definitively. Peace and good health to all of you in Italy.
Anyway. the real point here is not how players feel about these instant walkthroughs. It's about how authors feel about them, because, according to the law, they are the ones who have the right to agree or disagree to them being published. Noone else has that right.
As interesting as this debate has been, the law is clear on this - there is no argument. Permission to broadcast must be granted, not assumed.
So I was never proposing a rule be put in place. That rule already exists. What I was suggesting was a compromise from authors that don't want walkthroughs to be published to show that they respect players and want to strike a fair balance.
Anyway. the real point here is not how players feel about these instant walkthroughs. It's about how authors feel about them, because, according to the law, they are the ones who have the right to agree or disagree to them being published. Noone else has that right.
As interesting as this debate has been, the law is clear on this - there is no argument. Permission to broadcast must be granted, not assumed.
So I was never proposing a rule be put in place. That rule already exists. What I was suggesting was a compromise from authors that don't want walkthroughs to be published to show that they respect players and want to strike a fair balance.
Last edited by highrise on Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Homebrew authors vs Walkthroughs
As can be seen from the first post I made, this is not the case. I gave a list of names who have released dozens of titles over the last few years, who feel exactly the same way I do. A lot people who play these games do so in a casual way, but for those who write them it's a hobby they take seriously and spend a few hours each day coding.Most other people aren't as sensitive as you about this stuff
Re: Homebrew authors vs Walkthroughs
Second guessing author wishes is a bad strategy, but the authors also need to be proactive.
Perhaps they could add a "read-me" screen to their games, explaining the usage conditions ?
No need for complex legal stuff, just some plain text paragraphs about their wishes.
On other communities where I'm active (Orbiter Space Simulator add-ons) it works, because it allows one to define specific conditions - Ex: asset reuse, target platforms, attribution, etc.
Perhaps they could add a "read-me" screen to their games, explaining the usage conditions ?
No need for complex legal stuff, just some plain text paragraphs about their wishes.
On other communities where I'm active (Orbiter Space Simulator add-ons) it works, because it allows one to define specific conditions - Ex: asset reuse, target platforms, attribution, etc.
Re: Homebrew authors vs Walkthroughs
yes, absolutely, and encouraging authors to be proactive and not just grumble quietly and accept something they are not comfortable with is the whole reason I started this. As I keep saying, because of my work with AGDx and that I run a facebook group for coders, I have something of an ear to the ground on this and know how they feel about it.
Re: Homebrew authors vs Walkthroughs
A few other thoughts, just to be clear about my motivations. Despite the title of the thread, it has never been my intention to create an us vs them situation. Just the opposite in fact. I remember a couple of years ago, the chap who makes the RZX archive contacted me to ask permission to post a video of Terrapins and i was happy to agree. I appreciated being asked and it's a useful service, especially for older games that may be lost.
It seems to me that with so many new games coming out, things have kind of slipped into permission being assumed rather than requested, and with the popularity of homebrew, a few more people have jumped on board with these complete instant walkthroughs. As a result quite a few authors are not comfortable with it, and that is their right.
This is why I posted. think there should be a reminder about just who is producing this content in the first place and that a reset back to asking for permission would be fair. The two week embargo was simply a suggestion of how to make this easier, given the number of games that come out.
It seems to me that with so many new games coming out, things have kind of slipped into permission being assumed rather than requested, and with the popularity of homebrew, a few more people have jumped on board with these complete instant walkthroughs. As a result quite a few authors are not comfortable with it, and that is their right.
This is why I posted. think there should be a reminder about just who is producing this content in the first place and that a reset back to asking for permission would be fair. The two week embargo was simply a suggestion of how to make this easier, given the number of games that come out.
Re: Homebrew authors vs Walkthroughs
As something of an addendum...
It's interesting the reaction I got on here (where I now fully appreciate that people don't know me or the work I do with a lot of homebrew authors), as compared to the reaction I got on the facebook groups I frequent (which are mostly homebrew authors who know me).
It made me realise that I may have unwittingly come across as someone who thinks they know better than others and wants them to do as I do, perhaps also as someone who is putting their own interests before other people's. Sometimes when you operate in a small group, you can start to assume that people know your motives and how you work, when in fact it's more likely that outside your circle they will judge you on their own experience of other people that they have direct experience of. Certainly this scene has had its share off people shouting the odds.
What I would say is this - I don't make that many games, I tend to favour working with tools and patches and helping other authors. The games are up until recently only a small part of my hobby time so these instant walkthroughs don't affect me a great deal personally. However, the work I do does bring me into contact with a lot of other developers, and what I was trying to say was that many of them felt they had no control over how their games were broadcast on Youtube, and they didn't like how these complete walkthrough videos came out so quickly. Most of them said there was nothing they could do about it, but I decided to try, because I believe they are the lifeblood of the scene and we should do everything we can to encourage them and make the experience a positive one for them.
I realise that for many people, it's all about the fun for the players, but if it isn't fun for the coders too, there will be less games to play.
It's interesting the reaction I got on here (where I now fully appreciate that people don't know me or the work I do with a lot of homebrew authors), as compared to the reaction I got on the facebook groups I frequent (which are mostly homebrew authors who know me).
It made me realise that I may have unwittingly come across as someone who thinks they know better than others and wants them to do as I do, perhaps also as someone who is putting their own interests before other people's. Sometimes when you operate in a small group, you can start to assume that people know your motives and how you work, when in fact it's more likely that outside your circle they will judge you on their own experience of other people that they have direct experience of. Certainly this scene has had its share off people shouting the odds.
What I would say is this - I don't make that many games, I tend to favour working with tools and patches and helping other authors. The games are up until recently only a small part of my hobby time so these instant walkthroughs don't affect me a great deal personally. However, the work I do does bring me into contact with a lot of other developers, and what I was trying to say was that many of them felt they had no control over how their games were broadcast on Youtube, and they didn't like how these complete walkthrough videos came out so quickly. Most of them said there was nothing they could do about it, but I decided to try, because I believe they are the lifeblood of the scene and we should do everything we can to encourage them and make the experience a positive one for them.
I realise that for many people, it's all about the fun for the players, but if it isn't fun for the coders too, there will be less games to play.