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Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:06 pm
by WIWC
Hello.

I recently wrote somewhere that the Ghouls 'n' Ghosts conversion is better than its prequel conversion, which is, of course, the Ghosts 'n Goblins conversion. But I didn't play the latter in a while. In some years, in fact, probably. Now that I've tried it again, just yesterday, I'm not so sure that there's a clear winner. For example, I think that the main character is better drawn and animated in the earlier game, and it's also characterized by a better manoeuvrability and the possibility of shooting in the opposite direction of where you're jumping, which is very nice, and very useful.
Also, the movements of the demons and other monsters are quite impressive. Ghouls 'n' Ghosts, on the other hand, is a more complete conversion of the arcade it is based on, and the end-of-level bosses are fantastically drawn big sprites. Ghosts 'n Goblins, in fact, lasts only six minutes (check the rzx walkthrough) and lacks whole levels compared to its source material. At the same time, it is maybe more similar to the original arcade, because there was a certain progress in Ghouls 'n' Ghosts, and, juding by the video I've seen, it was almost an interactive cartoon. Both are difficult.

So which is the better game? Which one do you prefer?




Image versus Image

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:38 pm
by Swainy
Personally I always preferred the original conversion although it’s missing a lot of features and content of the arcade version. Ghouls N Ghosts crams in a lot more though and I love the 128k music on it.

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:43 pm
by Juan F. Ramirez
I've always preferred the first game (G'n'G) both in arcade and Spectrum version. Maybe just because it's the original game.

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:12 pm
by WIWC
I've just played them one after the other, and I've realized that the first part, which is very similar in both games (zombies emerging from the ground) is harder and more frustrating in Ghouls 'n' Ghosts: the collision detection is unforgiving, while it is more friendly in Ghosts 'n Goblins, and the main character is slightly less manoeuvrable. Also, even if you die in a relatively advanced position, you'll be back at the start of the cemetery anyway.
After all, maybe the first conversion is really the most playable, although still difficult. By the way, Crash gave 95% to Ghosts 'n Goblins when they first reviewed it.

I haven't voted yet, but right one Ghosts 'n Goblins is the one convincing me.

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:16 pm
by Ast A. Moore
I kind of remember Ghouls n’ Ghosts more, because it’s by the Follin brothers. And you turn into a duck. So, I’ma go with that.

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:20 pm
by WIWC
Ast A. Moore wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:16 pm I kind of remember Ghouls n’ Ghosts more, because it’s by the Follin brothers. And you turn into a duck. So, I’ma go with that.
True, you can turn into a duck. Is it something happening in the arcade too?

Anyway, I don't see any vote for Ghouls.

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:33 am
by Ast A. Moore
WIWC wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:20 pm True, you can turn into a duck. Is it something happening in the arcade too?
Yes:
https://youtu.be/odPJN_lZJgY?t=62
WIWC wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:20 pm Anyway, I don't see any vote for Ghouls.
Oh, shoot. I missed the fact it’s a poll. Voted.

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:27 am
by Ivanzx
Really shocked to see that the original GnG is winning. Ghouls and Ghosts is a quite impressive game that improves the original Ghosts and Goblins in every aspect, including the really bad implemented difficulty curve of the original GnG :shock:

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:36 am
by Ralf
I agree with Ivan here. I never could understand the high opinion that many people hold about Ghosts'n'Goblins.

It's too difficult, has simplistic and tiny graphics, ugly loading screen and lacks about 50% of content from the original.

Ghouls'n'Ghosts also isn't perfect and I'm certainly not a big fan. But it's more polished game and faithful to to original.

I'd really like to see Ghost's'n'Goblins remake on Zx Spectrum. Especially by people who did Valley of Rains :)

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:42 am
by Ivanzx
Ralf wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:36 amI'd really like to see Ghost's'n'Goblins remake on Zx Spectrum. Especially by people who did Valley of Rains :)
And we already have the music ;)

https://soundcloud.com/user-8687426/ghosts-n-goblins

8-)

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:49 am
by toot_toot
With the easy availability of the original arcade game source material through MAME and even YouTube, it’s easy to forget that back then it was nigh on impossible to compare the home conversions with the original games, even if you did have that machine in a local arcade, by the time that the conversion came out it was likely to have been long replaced - apart from maybe the big sit down machines like Space Harrier or Out Run.

When you read about the developers who converted them, they too often didn’t have much access to the source material, sometimes even taking a camcorder and a bunch of 10ps to the local arcade! I remember reading an article about the Gremlin guys concerting Gauntlet in Sinclair User and they mentioned they had an actual arcade machine in their office, which might have been the first time that happened.

I think that’s why some of the early arcade conversions were often different to the original machines, but interestingly those games also took a number of additional gameplay tweaks to make them more playable on home machines, especially on the earlier ones that were designed to just gobble up 10ps!

That’s why I prefer the original Ghosts n Goblins, it’s nowhere near arcade perfect but it’s a really enjoyable game on a 48k Spectrum. It’s challenging, but not too difficult, unlike the arcade game. Ghouls n Ghosts is a brilliant conversion but imho it suffers from trying to be too close to the original and it compromises too much “fun” in the process. Plus, to be honest would you play the Spectrum conversion now or the arcade original - or even better the SNES version which took the arcade and improved it? At least with Ghosts n Goblins it feels different enough to justify playing it on a Spectrum now.

The other thing about Ghosts n Goblins is that it’s from a period when it wasn’t just US Gold or Ocean getting the arcade licenses. And US Gold’s late 80s output was just jot very good on the Spectrum. Because Elite couldn’t get the licenses, they just churned out their own versions, like how Beyond The Ice Palace was supposed to be a sequel to Ghosts n Goblins - the Ice Palace is a name of one of the levels in Ghosts n Goblins - which was a decent little game. It would be nice to see it hacked with the Ghosts or Ghouls sprite!

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:20 pm
by WIWC
From 5 and 0 to 6 and 4: Ghouls 'n' Ghosts has gained ground!

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:14 pm
by WIWC
I've played both games tonight AGAIN. My final response is that Ghouls is more difficult and less fun than Ghosts, and so my vote goes to the latter, and my recent statement about Ghouls being better is... OVERTURNED!

edit:

Wow, in the meantime Ghouls had reached Ghosts and it became a draw until my vote brought Ghosts ahead again. Isn't all this... EXCITING?

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:36 pm
by Ivanzx
Ghouls and ghosts is in no way harder than Ghosts and Goblins :roll:

Ghosts N Goblins has one of the most difficult areas, level 2, I have ever played in a Spectrum games (and I have playd thousands!).

It is easy in Ghouls to reach level 3 after a few goes.

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:37 am
by WIWC
Ivanzx wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:36 pm Ghouls and ghosts is in no way harder than Ghosts and Goblins :roll:

Ghosts N Goblins has one of the most difficult areas, level 2, I have ever played in a Spectrum games (and I have playd thousands!).

It is easy in Ghouls to reach level 3 after a few goes.
Not with my "few goes"...

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:19 am
by WIWC
7 - 7 : it's a DRAW!

Isn't it... THRILLING?

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:45 am
by Ast A. Moore
Just load up Ghouls n’ Ghosts and let the catchy tune calm your nerves . . .

Tu-wee tah ta-dah da-da-dum,
Tu-wee tah ta-dah da-da-dum,
Tra, da, da, da, dum da-ra-da dum-dum . . .

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:48 am
by Morcar
With the music that's been supplied I knocked this little video up.
Hope it give you a better picture on what the first G'n'G would be like with 128k music.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHoqS9ylI5M[/media]

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:03 am
by ZXDunny
Morcar wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:48 am With the music that's been supplied I knocked this little video up.
Hope it give you a better picture on what the first G'n'G would be like with 128k music.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHoqS9ylI5M[/media]
Needs doing properly and releasing as a TZX. Seriously, it's time.

Anyway, that tune, no matter how it's rendered in AY, is iconic. I have no idea what the musician for the 128k version of Ghouls was thinking - I suspect that he was told "make a kinda medieval choon for this game" without having actually seen a Ghouls arcade at all.

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:07 am
by Morcar
ZXDunny wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:03 am
Morcar wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:48 am With the music that's been supplied I knocked this little video up.
Hope it give you a better picture on what the first G'n'G would be like with 128k music.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHoqS9ylI5M[/media]
Needs doing properly and releasing as a TZX. Seriously, it's time.

Anyway, that tune, no matter how it's rendered in AY, is iconic. I have no idea what the musician for the 128k version of Ghouls was thinking - I suspect that he was told "make a kinda medieval choon for this game" without having actually seen a Ghouls arcade at all.
I bet the Russian hacking scene will do one soon enough.

He obviously heard level 2 of Ghouls'n'ghosts and did his own version for the menu screen.
I am still quite mystified by the lack of music after it because the 128k Speccy was more than capable of doing.

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:18 am
by Ast A. Moore
ZXDunny wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:03 am I have no idea what the musician for the 128k version of Ghouls was thinking - I suspect that he was told "make a kinda medieval choon for this game" without having actually seen a Ghouls arcade at all.
I forget if he talks specifically about Ghouls here or not, but it’s worth a watch anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdvXiG0t1eg

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:01 pm
by ZXDunny
Thanks, I'll add it to my new year's watch list :)

The 128k version of Ghouls was actually more of a disappointment not because of any gameplay or graphical issues (there are none), but because they totally disregarded that level 1 tune. GnG (both) are closely linked to that melody in my mind so much so that I consider the Speccy version of Ghosts 'n' Goblins to be the superior implementation purely because it's silent musically - which is better than having the wrong tune.

By a country mile.

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:56 pm
by Alessandro
Like Ralf and Ivan, I never understood why Ghosts N Goblins is held in such a high esteem. I was a fan of the arcade coin-op and when I managed to play the Elite conversion, I was disappointed, also because I had the chance of playing the C64 version before. Especially when compared with other Elite Spectrum conversions of the same time like Space Harrier or Bomb Jack, it is a weak show. Therefore my vote goes to Ghouls N Ghosts.

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:10 pm
by RWAC
Ghouls n Ghosts whilst being incredibly difficult, it is possible to make some progress.
Ghosts n Goblins is just impossible! And the enemy sprites get lost in the background!

Re: Ghosts 'n Goblins VS Ghouls 'n' Ghosts

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:23 pm
by PeteProdge
RWAC wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:10 pm Ghouls n Ghosts whilst being incredibly difficult, it is possible to make some progress.
Ghosts n Goblins is just impossible! And the enemy sprites get lost in the background!
And don't get me started on Goblins n Ghouls.