ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

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Alessandro
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by Alessandro »

akeley wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:56 pmIt's not like you did badly on your firts go, btw :)
I have to force myself to play it because I find it monotonous and irritating :evil: Matt (The Gasman) is a very nice person - I met him at the launch of the Vega in London in 2015 - and his contribution to the Spectrum scene is immense. But this "game"... well, it doesn't even feel like he was behind it.

A tournament game should give you some sense of progression and achievement; a simple, repetitive and shallow title like Nozhdyve does not. There is no progression to make, no skill to hone... Anyway, if Juan likes it, I won't argue any more - I am waiting for my choices to surface ;)
akeley wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:56 pmI believe you can do it in some emulators too, definitely if you are using Retroarch.
I am playing under emulation in Windows 10. I didn't even know what Retroarch was actually and had to look for it on the web. Unfortunately this will be a huge handicap for me because the controls of Penetrator do not suit me at all and I end up tiring myself rather fast.
akeley wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:56 pmAbout the scoring system, yeah, I've already mentioned the percentage method in my initial post (we use it in Arcade HSC) alongside the remark that this sort of rocket science math is absolutely beyond my puny brain's capabilities. So unless somebody puts together an excel sheet with ready made formulas, and clear instructions for me (or wants to take over scoring altogether), I can only process the simpleton-level scoring way.
It's not so difficult. Just take the highest score and any other score, and follow this formula:

other score * 100 / highest score

For example, here are the current standings for Penetrator, rounded to the second decimal cypher:

Morkin 87290 = 100
Mousey 37070 = 42.47
Clebin 31870 = 36.51
Alessandro 27740 = 31.78
Freespirit 12170 = 13.94
Smurphboy 11210 = 12.84
Pegaz 10600 = 12.14
R-Tape 9290 = 10.64
Green Card 4760 = 5.45

This way, players will feel more motivated to improve their scores in order to rise through the leaderboard.
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by akeley »

Alessandro wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:17 pm A tournament game should give you some sense of progression and achievement; a simple, repetitive and shallow title like Nozhdyve does not. There is no progression to make, no skill to hone... A very bad choice, again :evil:
Opinions, opinions :) Fun fact: I hate Split Personalities but will have to deal with it if it gets drawn, and try to have fun too.
Alessandro wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:17 pm
akeley wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:56 pmI believe you can do it in some emulators too, definitely if you are using Retroarch.
I am playing under emulation in Windows 10. I didn't even know what Retroarch was actually and had to look for it on the web. Unfortunately this will be a huge handicap for me because the controls of Penetrator do not suit me at all and I end up tiring myself rather fast.
I'm sorry but somebody who can code a game can also learn to remap keys in the most popular emulator platform out there, if it's really so important. There is no way to unify everybody's control systems, and also several other factors, and there will always be some handicaps present (eg people who play on real machine and/or CRT will have no lag vs people on emulators, etc etc).

As an aside, I assumed automatically that remapping is a given in Speccy emulator world (which I'm not that familiar with because I've been mostly using real hardware/FPGAs and Retroarch), because it seems to be such an obvious, basic function. Is it really not the case?
Alessandro wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:17 pm It's not so difficult.
It is for me. Like I said, it's either ready made excel sheet or somebody else who's willing to take over this part. Otherwise it stays as is (also unless there's a general consenus it needs changing anyway).
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by R-Tape »

akeley wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:44 pm Otherwise it stays as is (also unless there's a general consenus it needs changing anyway).
This HSC thing is working great for me. Not too formal, not too competitive*, with a nice element of chaos (e.g. Nozhdyve being thrown in).

Ale - something tells me you're not going to like my choice of Flappy Bird ZX :? !

*as long as I beat Peter
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by Alessandro »

akeley wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:44 pm I'm sorry but somebody who can code a game can also learn to remap keys in the most popular emulator platform out there, if it's really so important.
Honestly I cannot see the nexus between the two things :?: That Retroarch platform was completely unknown to me until you mentioned it, and I have been into emulation for 24 years, not only for the Spectrum but for many other platforms e.g. Amiga, Atari ST, PSX, PC Engine, Dreamcast, N64 etc. so I would not assume without any doubt that it is the "most popular out there" ;) I don't know whether I will try installing it or not anyway, I'll see...
akeley wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:44 pm There is no way to unify everybody's control systems, and also several other factors, and there will always be some handicaps present (eg people who play on real machine and/or CRT will have no lag vs people on emulators, etc etc).
That's why in competitions like those under the HARP system it is only allowed to play under emulation, and with officially sanctioned emulators only as well.
akeley wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:44 pm As an aside, I assumed automatically that remapping is a given in Speccy emulator world (which I'm not that familiar with because I've been mostly using real hardware/FPGAs and Retroarch), because it seems to be such an obvious, basic function. Is it really not the case?
It is not. Some emulators allow you to remap joysticks (Kempston etc.) to the PC keyboard, however Penetrator has no joystick option.
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

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I was actually tempted to pick Rally Driver for one of my choices, and was prepared to accept the abuse from everyone for it... :lol:

Anyway, had a couple of goes at Nohzdyve today and currently have a high score of 560. And now I've got the tune stuck in my head... I reckon I can do better, but I was a bit hungover today so will probably try it again in the week.

So I'm at:

Bomb Jack - 162,570 (no change)
Penetrator - 87,290 (no change)
Nohzdyve - 560 (new!)

...I'd prefer the simpler "Grand Prix" points/ranking system - otherwise the contest might be over in a few weeks as people rack up uber-scores on a few of their favoured games (I mainly picked games I fancied playing rather than ones I was necessarily good at). I think the main incentive for improving your scores is to stop other people pipping it at the last minute, eBay snipe style...

Having said that though I'm not overly bothered, it's mostly about the banter and giving some games a bit more of a go than I would do otherwise. :)
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by clebin »

Nohzdyve - 940

Code: Select all

                                                     ...
                                              itself
                                           by
                              is scrolling
                     look at
                    I
         everything
       w
     o
And n
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by Freespirit »

Nohzdyve - 490

Code: Select all

 !!  !!   
 !!  !!   
 !!  !!
 \   /
   V
  ( )
  ( )
  / \
 / O \
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by akeley »

Alessandro wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:25 pm That's why in competitions like those under the HARP system it is only allowed to play under emulation, and with officially sanctioned emulators only as well.
Sure, but as I've stated in the preamble to this competition it's supposed to be a much more relaxed one. That's for two reasons: one is that I think this way makes it more accessible to mere mortals, who'd otherwise never think of competing, and two is logistics - I've only got time for some very simple thread maintenance, because of the good ol' Real Life malarkey :)
Alessandro wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:25 pm
akeley wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:44 pm As an aside, I assumed automatically that remapping is a given in Speccy emulator world (which I'm not that familiar with because I've been mostly using real hardware/FPGAs and Retroarch), because it seems to be such an obvious, basic function. Is it really not the case?
It is not. Some emulators allow you to remap joysticks (Kempston etc.) to the PC keyboard, however Penetrator has no joystick option.
Well, I've just mapped Penetrator's controls to my joypad in Spectaculator. You can also use software such as Joy2Key and similar. Or...Retroarch ;)

It can be done, and defintely is worth looking into, seeing as so many Spectrum games use esoteric key combos.
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

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Alessandro wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:25 pm Penetrator has no joystick option.
Some versions of it do. Melbourne House reissued it (in 1984, I think) with Kempston compatibility. If I recall correctly, it doesn't require you to select a Kempston option.
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

Penetrator - 29,940

Image

Will I reach 30,000 points some day? :(

And I started Nohdyve, with 270 points.
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by R-Tape »

Nozhdyve 1260
Alessandro wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:17 pm A tournament game should give you some sense of progression and achievement;
a simple, repetitive
Yes it's certainly these, but that's no bad thing IMO.
and shallow title like Nozhdyve does not.
It has less depth than a lot of games, but I wouldn't call it shallow. There may be less things to focus on, but you can look at them in greater detail. Maybe it shouldn't count (but for me it does), but there is also the whole black mirror backstory to think about.
There is no progression to make,
Scorescorescorescore!
no skill to hone...
Couldn't disagree more. I think there is actually a lot to this. You need to get a feel for the controls, the amount of space you need to do a hard right/left, learning how to do a quick shimmy if you're hemmed in by a wall. You need to recognise the various ways the teeth appear, and when collecting an eyeball might put you in jeopardy. It's a bit like being a cricket batsman: you have to repeatedly react, quickly, to something coming at you in varying directions, angles and speeds; and you can't lose you focus.
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

People who get more than 1,000 points in Nohzdyve... what do you eat for breakfast??? :mrgreen:
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by R-Tape »

Juan F. Ramirez wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:11 pm People who get more than 1,000 points in Nohzdyve... what do you eat for breakfast??? :mrgreen:
Image

PORRIDGE!

(not my picture btw!)
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

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Juan F. Ramirez wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:11 pm People who get more than 1,000 points in Nohzdyve... what do you eat for breakfast??? :mrgreen:
More importantly. How is your brain coping with all that scrolling. It's a very trippy game when played at any length.
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by smurphboy »

Nohzdyve : 1220

Image

The game is growing on me. It's trippy but you can get into a really zen state where you disconnect your brain from the process and just let your fingers react to what you see, zero cognitive load. Almost like juggling, you have to stop thinking about it and just do it.

No progression or strategy to speak of, but strangely addictive.
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

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Rorthron wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:44 pm Some versions of it do. Melbourne House reissued it (in 1984, I think) with Kempston compatibility. If I recall correctly, it doesn't require you to select a Kempston option.
Edit: previously I wrote that this version had not been preserved, in fact that's only partially true because the TAP file in the archive works with the Kempston keyboard emulation. No TZXs of it seems to exist, however.
R-Tape wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:07 pmIt has less depth than a lot of games, but I wouldn't call it shallow. There may be less things to focus on, but you can look at them in greater detail. Maybe it shouldn't count (but for me it does), but there is also the whole black mirror backstory to think about.
Which is completely unknown to me since I do not watch that series. I am not a fan of TV/Internet series in general to be honest (with some notable exceptions like The Young Pope and The Man In The High Castle). In addition to that, complex stories cannot do much if the game is bad. The Great Space Race had a long and complex history behind it - think about the biographies of every character - but it was a complete waste of code.
R-Tape wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:07 pmCouldn't disagree more. I think there is actually a lot to this.
A lot? :shock: It's just going left or right trying not to be hit by the flying false teeth! It reminds me of one of those homebrew games on tape magazines of the 1980s made by readers in 10 minutes of their spare time. Shallow, pointless and utterly unsatisfying. And it gives me hallucinations after a while, as if it weren't enough :shock:
Juan F. Ramirez wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:11 pm People who get more than 1,000 points in Nohzdyve... what do you eat for breakfast??? :mrgreen:
These days my breakfast consists of two slices of soft cereal bread with two different kinds of jam, a fruit and espresso coffee. I could hardly eat granita con la panna e la brioscia in the morning as many of my fellow citizens would do, too heavy for me :shock: I would have a granita and brioscia (without whipped cream) as a break at 11 am however.

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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

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R-Tape wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:24 pm
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

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smurphboy wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:25 pm
No progression or strategy to speak of, but strangely addictive.
That's the idea! :mrgreen:
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by Alessandro »

A big thank you to [mention]Rorthron[/mention] for the tip about the Kempston version of Penetrator. After trying several emulators to remap the keys, I felt mostly at ease with RealSpectrum DOS emulated through DOSBox, that is to say, an emulator within an emulator - square emulation maybe? :) Rorthron earns a granita with brioscia and is entitled to choose between coffee, strawberry, mulberry, almond, lemon, pistachio and peach, all topped with fresh whipped cream (except for lemon of course!) :D

Here is my new score: 34,550. I foolishly lost three lives in the second run cyan level due to those *%&@#! alien heads (which for some obscure reason are called "paratroopers" in the instructions).

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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by Morkin »

Bomb Jack - 162,570 (no change)
Penetrator - 87,290 (no change)
Nohzdyve - 920 (new!)

I'm getting the Nohzdyve 'eye scroll', so I better stop playing it now...

...Anyone who's playing Penetrator with a joystick, question: isn't it a bit of a pain to fire the laser, prodding the joystick right...? Or is there another method?
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

Post by R-Tape »

Nohzdyve 1320.

There comes a point when you get in the zone and everything seems to slow down. Then you glance up at the score, and if it's anywhere near your personal best then it suddenly becomes a jittery nightmare.
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

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R-Tape wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:51 pm Nohzdyve 1320.

There comes a point when you get in the zone and everything seems to slow down. Then you glance up at the score, and if it's anywhere near your personal best then it suddenly becomes a jittery nightmare.
I did that. I looked at my score and died as I lost the zone.
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

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I'm out so I tried to play Bomb Jack (24,060) and Penetrator (2,110) with my phone, you know, touch screen controls, ... terrible experience, as you can imagine...

ImageImage

I can't even reach level 2 in Penetrator! :lol:
Last edited by Juan F. Ramirez on Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

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Morkin wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:57 pm Nohzdyve - 920 (new!)
920???

Tsk, tsk!
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Re: ZX HSC Round 1 - Bomb Jack / Penetrator

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Juan F. Ramirez wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:06 pm I'm out so I tried to play Bomb Jack and Penetrator with my phone, you know, touch screen controls, ... terrible experience, as you can imagine...
Oh hell yes. Nohzdyve must be a bit better I presume?
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