Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

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PeteProdge
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Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by PeteProdge »

Based on the Renegade or Target Renegade thread, which pitted the two best entries in the Renegade series against each other, I thought I'd look at the bottom of the barrel.

Undisputably, Renegade III is easily the worst of the series, and as there was no Renegade 4, to set it up against a game of similar quality means I have to look outside officialdom, towards P?s?-poor budget Renegade-wannabe Subway Vigilante, from Players.

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There's no getting away from it. Subway Vigilante is basically the first level of Renegade, over and over again, albeit at a really dismal quality. The sprites of those bad guys are hysterical. Topless blokes with shades on, and drawn just badly enough so that the shoulder/arm connection looks deformed. That this came out in the same year as Renegade III, a full two years after Renegade, is a pretty poor showing, even for budget. There's no attempt to innovate in this, it's a miserable cash-in, a pathetic whimper of a game.

Renegade III has sadly jumped the shark and turned what was a gritty urban Warriors-like scenario into some Hanna Barbera Christmas special. The time machine twist is like something you'd expect as a desperate plan to breathe life into an ailing VHS B-movie franchise, why did it need to be put into the Renegade series? It'd be somewhat forgivable if there was a game engine anywhere like those of the previous two games, but instead it's an unplayable mess. This was a full price game, heavily hyped and expected to be at least nearly as good as its predecessors.

In both games, the character you play resembles Bono. This really doesn't give me the incentive to attack anyone, I feel like sitting back and watching the U2-fronting hypocrite get beaten to death.

Like choosing the best in that Renegade/Target Renegade dilemma, this is a really tough choice on choosing the worst. I'm going to have to say -
by a small margin - Renegade III, as it's a horrific let-down from a software house that has no reason to foist this on the public. Subway Vigilante has at least a few minutes of curiosity behind it, and you've probably only wasted three quid. Pretty sure Renegade and maybe Target Renegade would have been re-released on the Hit Squad label by this time, so really, your pocket money would have been better spent elsewhere.
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Re: Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by Ralf »

I know it will be heresy for many people but Renegade 3 isn't THAT bad.

It is a big disappointment as a Renegade game but try to think that it's not Renegade but some generic game. "Big Bad Johnny in Loop of Time" ;)
So what do we have here?

The graphics are okay, the music is okay, the animation is okay. It doesn't move jerky, it is fast enough.
The gameplay? The fighting is poor for beatemup but for me it's more platformer than beatemup game.

So if we forget that it is called Renegade it is something 5/10 for me.

-------------------------------------------

And Subway Vigilante. Well, it feels like the real Renegade. But it is poor man's Renegade ;)
The fighting is bad. It is also too hard. The backgrounds are boring, it is underground station all the time. Sprites look at moments wrong - deformed, with bad body proportions.

But I appreciate that someone was ambitious and tried to do a beatemup instead of easier game genre. I tried myself to write a beatemup, never finished anything (but never say never ;) ) and can confirm that it's a difficult game type to do it right,

So 4/10 for Subway Vigilante and Renegade 3 wins by a small margin, just like PeteProdge said.
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Re: Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by PeteProdge »

Ralf wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:42 am So 4/10 for Subway Vigilante and Renegade 3 wins by a small margin, just like PeteProdge said.
Ah, but I was putting Renegade 3 up as the worst rather than the best. Not that there's much to separate them.
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Re: Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by AndyC »

Renegade 3 has to be worst, because even without the name it simply is that bad. The collision detection is all over the place, the graphics and indistinguishable mess and the time limits are insanely tight.

By contrast Subway Vigilante may be a crap Renegade clone, but it isn't quite that awful.
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Re: Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by R-Tape »

I need to play Subway Vigilante before I can comment, but it looks like both blew most of the dev budget on the loading screen artist. Subway's loader is fantastic.
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Re: Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by Alessandro »

Both played back in the day and both really bad games to say the least, but at least Subway Vigilante costed less, even when Renegade III was re-released on the Hit Squad label.
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Re: Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by Ralf »

I see that you guys really strongly dislike Renegade 3.

I suppose I'm biased. As you may remember I made a mod of this game which adds colour to the background. While doing this mod I played Renegade 3 for countless number of times for testing. I learnt how to play it, I suppose at my top form I would be even able to complete it without any cheats :o

And I almost started liking it ;) Well, I suppose it's like listening to a genre of music that you hate every day. Either you'll commit a suicide or your tolerance will increase ;)
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Re: Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by PeteProdge »

Ralf wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:15 am I suppose I'm biased. As you may remember I made a mod of this game which adds colour to the background. While doing this mod I played Renegade 3 for countless number of times for testing. I learnt how to play it, I suppose at my top form I would be even able to complete it without any cheats :o

And I almost started liking it ;)
I appreciate the mod. And, likewise there was a mod to bring colour to the ZX Spectrum conversion of Pac Land - another truly awful game. (I must stress it's the conversion that's the awful game, the arcade original is fantastic.) Then of course are the infamous POKEs that bring the near-complete colour to OutRun Europa, another disappointing title that could have been outstanding.
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Re: Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by R-Tape »

I've had a quick play of Subway Vigilante and I think it's quite good. The fighting and AI is better than Renegade 3, for example the enemies don't keep walking onto a kick repeatedly. The graphics are great, including the sprites IMO, but could be more varied. Not that I've reached one yet but the bosses look fairly inventive.

It has a plus point over the earlier Renegades as you can't absurdly flying kick your way all over the shop.

It's hard to say which is better because Renegade 3 has departed from being a regular fighting game. R3 is the better cartoony adventure with kicking, but Subway Vigilante is the better toughy, serious beatemup.

One of the first things I thought of was that SV could do with the Ralf treatment...
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Re: Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by Ralf »

One of the first things I thought of was that SV could do with the Ralf treatment...
Well, I have so many unfinished projects. Should I start a new one? :lol:

Actually if I were to do some changes with Subway Vigilante, it would be adding more colour to background and making stages more diverse.
It would probably make the hero go out of subway. So should it be still called Subway Vigilante? Or maybe Street Vigilante? Hard to say ;)

The background in SV scrolls smoothly so it should be carefully designed to avoid colour clash. Actually I don't remember any colourful beatemups
with smooth scrolling on Spectrum so it would be quite fresh and new. But the rules would be the same like with other genre games like Green Beret or Zynaps.
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Juan F. Ramirez
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Re: Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

I've never played both before, so I just gave a try.

Renegade III is the remain of what they were two great games. Only decent graphics and movement of the character. But overall is a surrealist and boring product, an example of abuse of using sequels.

I prefer Subway Vigilante, though, in spite of being technically worse. Neither graphics nor the bad control of the character nor the 'variety' of backgrounds made it a good game, but it's just what you need if you're a huge fan of the genre.
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blucey
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Re: Renegade III or Subway Vigilante?

Post by blucey »

I want to test this out but Subway Vigilante seems knacked on QAOP.

Once you get past the title screen it seems to go into some sort of loader.

Anyone got this working?

http://torinak.com/qaop#128#l=https://s ... 20OcEA.TAP
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