Cybernoid clones?

General software. From trouble with the Banyan Tree to OCP Art Studio, post any general software chat here. Could include game challenges...
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Cybernoid clones?

Post by R-Tape »

I'll rephrase that as 'games inspired by Cybernoid'.

There are plenty during the post commercial era:

Slubberdegullion, Rough Justice, Zukinox, Hyperkill, Future Looter, Scumball2.

Any more? What about ones from the commercial era?
Ralf
Rick Dangerous
Posts: 2279
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:59 am
Location: Poland

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Ralf »

What about ones from the commercial era?
What would you say about Shark?

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 96&id=4448
Image

Close enough to be considered an inspired game or not?
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by R-Tape »

How could I forget Vallation?! (I made a mental note to do so in fact)

I did the same with Shark actually, so if it quickly came to both our minds then probably.

I suppose the criteria would be a shmup with a free floating sprite subject to gravity, in a fairly confined setting, with traps.
Ralf
Rick Dangerous
Posts: 2279
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:59 am
Location: Poland

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Ralf »

In such case Task Force probably would qualify too. The captured screen is in start position which suggests some free space but it immediately becomes a maze game:

Image

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 96&id=5152
User avatar
Alessandro
Dynamite Dan
Posts: 1908
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:10 am
Location: Messina, Italy
Contact:

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Alessandro »

R-Tape wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:55 pm How could I forget Vallation?! (I made a mental note to do so in fact)
How could you forget Sophia, I'd say... :P
User avatar
ZXDunny
Manic Miner
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by ZXDunny »

I'd say a most likely candidate was Cybernoid 2.
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by R-Tape »

Alessandro wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:37 pm How could you forget Sophia, I'd say... :P
Heh. I had it down as adventure.

We need a Cybernoid index!
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by R-Tape »

ZXDunny wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:55 pm I'd say a most likely candidate was Cybernoid 2.
They've even gone and ripped the Cybernoid sprite as a power up! This is like when Ian Mcnabb took Crazy Horse on tour. Brazen!
Ralf
Rick Dangerous
Posts: 2279
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:59 am
Location: Poland

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Ralf »

By the way, are we gathering data for the database to add new "inspired by" field or just babbling ;)
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by R-Tape »

Ralf wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:53 am By the way, are we gathering data for the database to add new "inspired by" field or just babbling ;)
It is for inspiration, but for me, with my game designer's hat on.

I would love extra search fields, like 'inspired by Cybernoid', 'horizontal scroller', 'vertical scroller' but there's no time for it now.
User avatar
MatGubbins
Dynamite Dan
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:45 am
Location: Kent, UK

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by MatGubbins »

Ah.... but what game was Cybernoid a clone of?
Ralf
Rick Dangerous
Posts: 2279
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:59 am
Location: Poland

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Ralf »

Ah.... but what game was Cybernoid a clone of?
Maybe I'm missing something but I would say Cybernoid is the first of its genre.

Generally it comes from horizontal space shootemups where you control some ship and fire at other ships. But in these earlier typical shootemups you fly from left to right and the background is scrolling. In Cybernoid you are in a maze and it's flip screen game. Different enough to say it's a new subgenre I believe.
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by R-Tape »

I kind of agree but I'm struggling to define why!

How would we differentiate Cybernoid (1988) from AirWolf (1984) for example?
User avatar
Einar Saukas
Bugaboo
Posts: 3070
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:48 pm

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Einar Saukas »

R-Tape wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:17 pmI kind of agree but I'm struggling to define why!

How would we differentiate Cybernoid (1988) from AirWolf (1984) for example?
Quality.

People don't like to say "X is a clone of Y" when X plays much better than Y.
Ralf
Rick Dangerous
Posts: 2279
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:59 am
Location: Poland

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Ralf »

Going a bit philosophical... ;)

I would say that the word "clone" is a bit negative. It suggests something unoriginal, trying to mimic something good and classic but being generally worse.

You won't say that Mortal Kombat is a clone of Street Fighter. They are both one on one fighting games but both are great classics and distinct enough.

When a game is a big success and brings new elements you don't call it a clone. People often consider Arkanoid a father of the genre, although it takes a lot from the earlier, old game Breakout. Personally I would always say that something is a clone of Arkanoid, not a clone of some Breakout ;)

I would also say that element of Cybernoid genre definition is not only a ship in the maze but futuristic backgrounds being a mix of mechanical and organic elements too. Something missing in Airwolf
User avatar
Einar Saukas
Bugaboo
Posts: 3070
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:48 pm

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Einar Saukas »

However most games mentioned in this thread as "clones of Cybernoid" don't have "futuristic backgrounds being a mix of mechanical and organic elements too".
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by R-Tape »

THE OFFICIAL CYBERNOID INDEX.

0 – Different genre entirely.
1 – A flip screen game with shooting in a non futuristic setting. Not very much like Cybernoid at all really.
....
5 – A hermetic futuristic setting with red/magenta/green tentacles bound by metal blocks. Large static alien heads fire projectiles at you with mild homing tendencies. Power ups include missiles and an orbiting ball. You have to avoid synchronised drones in vertical or horizontal columns. Patrolling background hugging sprites. So close to Cybernoid it is Cybernoid.

(Haven't filled in 2,3,4 yet)

So in my opinion that would put:

Future Looter and Hyperkill at around 4.8
Vallation a solid 4.5
Zukinox and Sophia ~4.0
Airwolf 1.0

Slubberdegullion is tricky, I would have given it 4.8 were it not for the vector innovation.
User avatar
Einar Saukas
Bugaboo
Posts: 3070
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:48 pm

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Einar Saukas »

I disagree about Zukinox. The idea of collecting objects and carrying them back to the mothership (instead of simply progressing through screens) makes it quite different. The visual style wasn't influenced by Cybernoid either. It's basically a game to negotiate obstacles while dealing with gravity (like Airwolf), with a lot of backtracking (like Airwolf), except with a space theme (like Cybernoid).

I kinda agree about Sophia. Despite a completely different theme and visual style, it follows the Cybernoid gameplay style closely so the influence is obvious.
User avatar
Einar Saukas
Bugaboo
Posts: 3070
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:48 pm

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Einar Saukas »

Ralf wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:53 am By the way, are we gathering data for the database to add new "inspired by" field or just babbling ;)
ZXDB always had "inspired by" information about games!

Unbeknownst to many, Spectrum Computing allows you to see this information easily. For instance, in game Elite there's a field called "derived titles". If you click there, you will see a list of 5 titles: 2 "inspired by Elite" and 3 "Elite mods". I just noticed this list is missing Awaken, I will add it in the next update.

On a more technical note, I have already updated our internal spreadsheet (currently used to automatically generate ZXDB updates). There's now a new tab for updating information in previously registered titles. I have already added to the spreadsheet the information discussed in this thread so far, they will appear in the next ZXDB update!
Ralf
Rick Dangerous
Posts: 2279
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:59 am
Location: Poland

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Ralf »

I disagree about Zukinox.
I checked this game and I would give abut 2.5 to Zukinox in "The official Cybernoid index" (tm) ;)

It's flip screen, it's a ship that shoots, it's space themed but graphically it doesn't have this Cybernoid feeling. It has actually very basic graphics while Cybernoid has it very good. I would say a game has to have good graphics to be close to Cybernoid.

And Sophia is a very curious case. You control a person, not a ship, it has a medieval/fairytale and not space setting and yet it feels strongly Cybernoid inspired ;)
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by R-Tape »

I agree about Zukinox.
Einar Saukas wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:51 am ZXDB always had "inspired by" information about games!

Unbeknownst to many, Spectrum Computing allows you to see this information easily. For instance, in game Elite there's a field called "derived titles". If you click there, you will see a list of 5 titles: 2 "inspired by Elite" and 3 "Elite mods". I just noticed this list is missing Awaken, I will add it in the next update.

On a more technical note, I have already updated our internal spreadsheet (currently used to automatically generate ZXDB updates). There's now a new tab for updating information in previously registered titles. I have already added to the spreadsheet the information discussed in this thread so far, they will appear in the next ZXDB update!
Great! So this will be an easily searchable property when Peter & Ricardo sort out the advanced search?

In which case we should try and list more games with more than say, 3 on the Cybernoid Scale?

EDIT - although Zukinox is arguably less than 3, the author does quote Cybernoid as an inspiration.

Also, good call about not being able to backtrack, I'll revise the scale later.
User avatar
Einar Saukas
Bugaboo
Posts: 3070
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:48 pm

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Einar Saukas »

R-Tape wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:17 pmGreat! So this will be an easily searchable property when Peter & Ricardo sort out the advanced search?
There's no need. As soon as this information is added (in the next ZXDB update), you can simply open the Cybernoid page and click on "derived titles" to find them.

R-Tape wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:17 pmIn which case we should try and list more games with more than say, 3 on the Cybernoid Scale?
Not sure about 3. Perhaps above 4?

Also we should try to identify others inspirations missing from the archive and add them too!

R-Tape wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:17 pmEDIT - although Zukinox is arguably less than 3, the author does quote Cybernoid as an inspiration.
You created a scale for "Cybernoid clones". I agree that Zukinox was inspired by Cybernoid, but I disagree that it's even close to a clone! :)
User avatar
Seven.FFF
Manic Miner
Posts: 735
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:50 pm
Location: USA

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by Seven.FFF »

I wrote a "lunar lander in a maze" game in 1983. More of a Thrust clone, although that didn't exist yet. It was in the "way too hard for anyone but the dev to play" category, because the tunnels were so tight. It was awful, and I couldn't get it published :D
Robin Verhagen-Guest
SevenFFF / Threetwosevensixseven / colonel32
NXtel NXTP ESP Update ESP Reset CSpect Plugins
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Cybernoid clones?

Post by R-Tape »

Okay how’s this for a revised Cybernoid Scale:

0 - A vanishingly small amount in common with Cybernoid, e.g. Yahtzee.
1 - A flip screen game with a floating sprite, the sprite can shoot but it you would not describe it as a shooter, e.g. Cauldron
2 - A flip screen game with a floating sprite, which you would describe as a shooter, e.g. Airwolf
3 - Same as #2, but with a space/alien/biological/mechanical/futuristic theme, e.g. Shark
4 - No backtracking. Some traps and synchronised avoidance e.g. Rough Justice
5 - Orbiting power ups, background hugging baddies, synchronised baddies in columns. So close to Cybernoid, it is Cybernoid.

So, like the Kinsey scale of human sexuality, every game has its position on the Cybernoid Scale, with 4 or more warranting the title of ‘Cybernoid clone’.

Einar – now that I’ve done the difficult bit, could you assign every game in ZXDB a CRN (Cybernoid Reference Number)?

I think Cybernoid 2 is a slightly overegged pudding, so is a 5.1.
Post Reply