Spectrum Computing

I may have skimmed this thread a bit quickly so apologies if I've misunderstood anything but I pretty much agree with Rorthron. The people who worked on the game should be in one group (programmers, graphics artists, sound/music, etc) and people who worked on the cover art or in any other capacity should be in another.

Also, what happens when you get a re-issue of a game? Quite often the cover art was completely different so it could look like you're crediting someone who didn't deserve any credit whatsoever - tch! In fact, some titles had different covers whilst still full price because the companies involved revamped their house style at various times or just changed the artwork when producing new batches of tapes. Off the top of my head you've got publishers like Level 9, Mikro-Gen, Artic etc who knocked out titles which may have one of several different covers and they're all full price releases.

When you get a novel the author is always credited but you often get tons and tons of different covers depending on which edition it is, which country it came out in etc. I think you need to credit the cover artist as a separate entity and ideally mention whether it relates to the original release of a game or a re-issue and all that sort of malarkey. Otherwise you're just getting in a bit of mushy mess really.

To be honest I don't see too much of a problem here. At Catacombs of Balachor page, it says "Inlay/Poster Art" right after "Olli Hihnalla" under AUTHORS/CONTRIBUTORS section.

However I certainly don't mind having separate sections for AUTHORS and CONTRIBUTORS! Since that's the preference here, and nobody raised any objections, then let's do it!

But first, there are a few details we need to decide:

What should happen if an artist created both load screen and cover? Should they appear twice, in both sections? Otherwise, won't it be harder to find information if cover art is credited under AUTHORS for certain games and CONTRIBUTORS for others?

What if certain artists were already credited as co-authors from sites without role information (such as old WoS archive), later we identified that these artists created the cover art, but we don't know if they also worked on something else? Should they only appear now under CONTRIBUTORS but not AUTHORS?

Einar Saukas wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:13 pm To be honest I don't see too much of a problem here. At Catacombs of Balachor page, it says "Inlay/Poster Art" right after "Olli Hihnalla" under AUTHORS/CONTRIBUTORS section.

Not for me. I am on mobile, though (Edge on Android).

I would suggest:

SOFTWARE CREDITS: programmer, in-game graphics, loading screen, sound

INLAY CREDITS: cover artist, internal artist, writer (eg Robert Holdstock for The Dark Wheel)

Multiple roles (eg cover art and loading screen) should be recorded separately.

Rorthron wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:18 pm

Einar Saukas wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:13 pm To be honest I don't see too much of a problem here. At Catacombs of Balachor page, it says "Inlay/Poster Art" right after "Olli Hihnalla" under AUTHORS/CONTRIBUTORS section.

Not for me. I am on mobile, though (Edge on Android).

Chrome on Android works for me.

Rorthron wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:18 pmI would suggest:

SOFTWARE CREDITS: programmer, in-game graphics, loading screen, sound

INLAY CREDITS: cover artist, internal artist, writer (eg Robert Holdstock for The Dark Wheel)

Multiple roles (eg cover art and loading screen) should be recorded separately.

OK, I like this idea!

What about credits for hardware and books?

Definitely agree on the multiple roles being recorded separately. It's pretty common if you watch the credits on a movie to see people getting namechecked tons of times if they've worked on several areas during the production.

I'm not sure if it's what you're suggesting but I think trying to categorise people's roles as specifically as possible is a good idea. A lot of the credits on WoS currently lump a load of people together and it's not easy to know who did what. I know sometimes the info is either vague or just not available but if someone did the coding, someone else did the graphics, someone else did the sound etc then it'd good to know this.

Definitely agree on the multiple roles being recorded separately.

Yes, it's often a case:

Johnny did a code and some graphics
Billy did rest of graphics

So we need:

Johnny: code
Johnny: graphics
Billy: graphics

Is it possible currently to have the same person at different roles at ZXDB?

Ralf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:21 pmIs it possible currently to have the same person at different roles at ZXDB?

Sure!

For instance, see X=Y=Z:

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=30139

Bob Smith and Chris Cowley worked on multiple roles each, also several people worked as level designers.

My opinion about this is that cover artists and programmers should be included in different fields for every DB entry.

But loading screen artists should be included with programmers (pointing out who made the loading screen).

Einar Saukas wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:28 pm

Rorthron wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:18 pm Not for me. I am on mobile, though (Edge on Android).

Chrome on Android works for me.

Incidentally for me this information doesn't show in Chrome, either. Perhaps it's a function of screeen size and page responsiveness. I am using a Galaxy S8.

Juan F. Ramirez wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:52 am My opinion about this is that cover artists and programmers should be included in different fields for every DB entry.

But loading screen artists should be included with programmers (pointing out who made the loading screen).

If this information exists, and its possible then some really interesting analysis can be done. Like for example you can now know the average size of a games development team, how common it was for one man bands doing all of the duties in production - to how common it was for multiple developers and fully separated tasks.

I always wondered if it was really true that spectrum software development was driven by bedroom coders doing everything themselves. (over the whole of the software library sure probably a great deal was written this way and brought to market. But what about the games everyone talks about and loves? I think not so much.

Rorthron wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:04 pm

Einar Saukas wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:28 pm Chrome on Android works for me.

Incidentally for me this information doesn't show in Chrome, either. Perhaps it's a function of screeen size and page responsiveness. I am using a Galaxy S8.

When you look at this page, do you see a big square called AUTHORS/CONTRIBUTORS, right after another big square called RELEASES? What kind of information is visible to you?

I always wondered if it was really true that spectrum software development was driven by bedroom coders doing everything themselves. (over the whole of the software library sure probably a great deal was written this way and brought to market. But what about the games everyone talks about and loves? I think not so much.

I would say it's 50/50. There is a lot of software made by one man in his bedroom mostly for fun. And there is a lot of software which was created by teams of people who actually each day went to work, worked there and got a salary.

The teams were small by current standards however. Usually about 3-5 people, not over 100 people like in modern superproductions.

Einar Saukas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:18 pm

Rorthron wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:04 pm Incidentally for me this information doesn't show in Chrome, either. Perhaps it's a function of screeen size and page responsiveness. I am using a Galaxy S8.

When you look at this page, do you see a big square called AUTHORS/CONTRIBUTORS, right after another big square called RELEASES? What kind of information is visible to you?

Yes, I do have that box and it includes the role descriptions. I was looking at the general info box, which doesn't have it. Thanks.

Einar Saukas wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:28 pmWhat about credits for hardware and books?

I don't know about hardware, but books shpuld probably be split between author, editor and/or illustrator. If they need to be bundled together, they could perhaps be described as BOOK CREDITS.

Rorthron wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:30 pm

Einar Saukas wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:18 pm When you look at this page, do you see a big square called AUTHORS/CONTRIBUTORS, right after another big square called RELEASES? What kind of information is visible to you?

Yes, I do have that box and it includes the role descriptions. I was looking at the general info box, which doesn't have it. Thanks.

You are welcome!

I believe Peter considered that putting all authors and roles, in a single field inside the general box at the top, would look too cramped and confusing.

Anyway I like the idea of separate fields for main credits and contributions. I will prepare the proper SQL for him.

Comic book artist Jackson Guice (also sometimes known as Jackson "Butch" Guise) did the cover for Skyfox. The original Electronic Arts release on other platforms apparently came with a mini comic and he's credited on there (as Butch Guise).

http://www.mobygames.com/game/skyfox
http://www.mobygames.com/game/skyfox/co ... Id,387024/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Guice

The Black Tiger and Dynasty Wars covers are both by Peter Andrew Jones.

Some more Peter Andrew Jones for you (with "evidence"!)...

Falcon The Renegade Lord (PAJ 84 signature)
Artura (PAJ 88 signature)
Echelon (PAJ 88 signature)
Gauntlet III (credited on rear of box)
Last Duel (©PAJ signature)

Badlands is also credited to him on some sites but I can't find any definitive proof of this one. The box just says the artwork and packaging is © Domark.

I've also seen Laser Zone credited to him but I'm pretty sure this only applies to the Llamasoft version on the C64 as the Spec cover from Quicksilva Ltd uses totally different artwork. The Llamasoft one re-uses his cover from Isaac Asimov book "Buy Jupiter".

This information was also added to ZXDB, thank you!

Judge Dredd (Melbourne House): In the instructions it can be read: "cover artwork by an original design by Brian Bolland"

OK, how about another classic comic strip character from Melbourne House? The cover art for Asterix and the Magic Cauldron is by Albert Uderzo (who else?)

Oh, and both Garfield games have Jim Davis' signature on the cover too (although a lot of his stuff is most likely done "in house" by Paws, Inc. rather than by him necessarily). And I guess the same goes for The Simpsons: Bart vs the Space Mutants and Matt Groening (who I'm almost certain does not/did not draw every single Simpsons-related picture that's been produced despite them all having his signature on). Maybe I'm opening too big a can of worms here?!

Well, in my opinion we should include the author of the cover, no matter if the artwork is original or based on a comics character.

So, yes, let's open that can of worms!

Juan F. Ramirez wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:59 pmJudge Dredd (Melbourne House): In the instructions it can be read: "cover artwork by an original design by Brian Bolland"

Added to ZXDB, thanks!

Einar Saukas wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:38 pm

Juan F. Ramirez wrote: ↑Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:59 pmJudge Dredd (Melbourne House): In the instructions it can be read: "cover artwork by an original design by Brian Bolland"

Added to ZXDB, thanks!

The loading screen (where Dredd is pointing angrily at the viewer) is based on a Brian Bolland drawing from the Block Mania storyline ("I'm with Rowdy Yates block!").
The inlay cover illustration is clearly by Mike McMahon (it's the cover of 2000AD #148):
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.p ... mic=2000ad
Not that I'm a fan or anything...

But if you look at the mobygames entry:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/judge-dredd__/cover-art

In 'manual side B', in the credits section it can be read (ok, a bit small, but it can be read) the artwork is by Bolland.