ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

For experts to discuss very technical stuff and newbies to ask why the Spectrum they bought off ebay doesn't work.
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beanz
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:27 pm

Sokurah wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:49 pm
Bizzley wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:45 pm
Just what exactly am I meant to play them on?
Well, there are about 400 boards out there after all. Perhaps not much use to you, but useful for the people that has a board.
Yep, 400 and change. The numbers were not fully reflected on the campaign. It only reflected those who specifically bought the board, not those who purchased a full next and then added the difference for a board too (like I did). It was mentioned back then there were 400+ boards made and shipped.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz » Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:30 pm

Bizzley wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:44 am
Alcoholics Anonymous wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:29 am
It sounds a lot like you're looking for a reason to be miffed.
But it is OK to hold and voice a different opinion towards some some aspects of the campaign, isn't it, or have I missed something else?
Nope that's fine...but it might come across as an "I told you so" attitude rather than being constructive. I knew for example DURING the campaign they were never going to meet that shipping estimate...it was laughably naive (I work for an OEM and am fully aware how long it takes to bring new products to market etc). As such I didn't expect delivery of the finished unit anytime soon and that's why I got a board too...boards are easy to make and deliver etc.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:05 pm

beanz wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:30 pm
As such I didn't expect delivery of the finished unit anytime soon and that's why I got a board too...boards are easy to make and deliver etc.
Have you (or anyone else reading this) had any experience with plastic cases and keyboards, it would be interesting to know whether the estimated 18 months (max) it's taking to put the ready-built PCBs into a plastic box is par for the course or not.

The only experience similar to this I've had was when we were putting the old Spectrum Echosoft keyboard deal together. I know it took about half a dozen friends and family less than a month to put almost 10,000 units together from pre-assembled components but there were no instruction manuals, duplicated cassettes, inlays, interface PCBs cables or even plastic cases to put the PCBs in at the start of that month, they took about a week to source and then were delivered on a rolling basis. Dixons didn't want to hear that in a year's time everything would be better looking and cooler and the software would have more functions, they had told people they could have it for Christmas and that meant delivery to them in 4 weeks time. Of course corners were cut - I had to hack the software so I know they were! - but a date had been agreed and we did whatever we had to do to make sure they were delivered on time and of an acceptable quality.
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beanz
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:57 pm

Bizzley wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:05 pm
beanz wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:30 pm
As such I didn't expect delivery of the finished unit anytime soon and that's why I got a board too...boards are easy to make and deliver etc.
Have you (or anyone else reading this) had any experience with plastic cases and keyboards, it would be interesting to know whether the estimated 18 months (max) it's taking to put the ready-built PCBs into a plastic box is par for the course or not.

The only experience similar to this I've had was when we were putting the old Spectrum Echosoft keyboard deal together. I know it took about half a dozen friends and family less than a month to put almost 10,000 units together from pre-assembled components but there were no instruction manuals, duplicated cassettes, inlays, interface PCBs cables or even plastic cases to put the PCBs in at the start of that month, they took about a week to source and then were delivered on a rolling basis. Dixons didn't want to hear that in a year's time everything would be better looking and cooler and the software would have more functions, they had told people they could have it for Christmas and that meant delivery to them in 4 weeks time. Of course corners were cut - I had to hack the software so I know they were! - but a date had been agreed and we did whatever we had to do to make sure they were delivered on time and of an acceptable quality.
Yes, as I say I work for an OEM manufacturing power conditioning equipment that involves circuit boards, metal chassis, plastic chassis, from design to ordering parts to delivering the finished product etc.

You're simplifying the "ready PCB in a plastic box"...as the spectrum next case isn't a "plastic box". It's about as complicated as it gets as far as creating plastics from scratch goes...and on top of that finding someone willing to do a short run (which 3000+ is) at a reasonable price...aka a price that fits in with the $$ available. Sure you could find someone to do it faster if money was no object...but money is an object when you have a finite amount to work from.

As far as 18 months go it's a little long sure...but then these guys are not professional manufacturers...our products can take 6 months to a year on average from idea to deliverable product...we've been doing it for 30+ years...so 18 months for amateurs isn't bad at all.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:25 pm

Just to clarify, the 18 months I stated was from when the Next was due (Jan 2018) up to the stated maximum of June 30th 2019. The development date for the Next actually runs from May 2017 when the campaign closed making it slightly over an estimated two years. From your experience and what you say I'm beginning to think the vastly understated original delivery date had more to do with amateurs telling the backers what they wanted to hear rather than it being a realistic professional estimation. But that's all done now, we're on the clock and hopefully they will be doing their best to deliver it even before Q2 as they hope.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:39 pm

Bizzley wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:25 pm
From your experience and what you say I'm beginning to think the vastly understated original delivery date had more to do with amateurs telling the backers what they wanted to hear rather than it being a realistic professional estimation.
Yep...or simply their naivety regarding the whole process.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:17 pm

And still this drags on. As we now enter Q2 of the year comments by the developers that they will "try to ship it earlier than Q2" have to be placed firmly in the negative column. With the latest update confirming that a test keyboard has yet to be produced that meets expectations the clock is now running down on the promised delivery date of end Q2, June 30th. However, the update does state that a six week allowance was made in the initial date estimation for unforseen problems and that a Q2 delivery is still on the cards so we have 12 weeks to go before we find out how that compares to the "earlier than Q2" hope.

In the Kickstarter comments for this update a Paul Murphy has raised an interesting point, that the reason the keyboard has been delayed a month and is still not acceptable is solely down to the fact that the developers requested four "minor tweaks" to the already working keyboard resulting in delays to allow for retooling and production of (yet another) test unit. That these "minor tweaks" were never part of the original Rick Dickinson design and have been added as an afterthought - with seemingly no idea of the problems they would cause - is at best a case of 'doing it because we can' and at worst ignoring what Mr. Dickinson designed. So the keyboard was working four\five weeks ago and could have gone into production if it had just been left alone, the latest in a long list of delays caused by decisions to place cosmetic changes above practicalities.

Unfortunately Paul Murphy's comments are likely to elicit pretty much the same inults that another poster in the previous update received for the sin of not being 100% behind the project, being called a"Bell End" and a "F*** Knuckle" for daring to doubt. While all backers accept that crowd-funded projects like this are a gamble and that dates can shift because of unforseen problems you do have to worry when those delays are totally forseeable yet are still being implemented.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Pegaz » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:56 pm

I dont know if it will accomplish goal at the end of Q2 deadlines, but I really hope so.
What worries me a little bit, is the obedient mentality in most of the comments on next web page, who blindly support any delay and explanation.
I'm wondering for example, if there will be additional postal charges from England to worldwide destinations in case of no-deal Brexit?
I also wonder if the packaging and manual production is complete or not?
Or maybe it's time to become a true believer, as well as those who have sworn in Vega+ for years.
Today is the 1st of April, after all...
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Ralf » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:14 pm

Well, welcome to the development hell :evil:

And it's really hard to decide till which moment you should give your support to the developers and since which moment you are entitled to get angry at them and call them losers or scammers.

As for me I really prefer to stay away from these crowdfunding campains, it's healthier.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:51 pm

Pegaz wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:56 pm
I'm wondering for example, if there will be additional postal charges from England to worldwide destinations in case of no-deal Brexit?
Seems like if there is those additional costs and responsibilities are on the shipper.
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