ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

The Speccy's spritely young offspring. Discuss everything from FPGA to ZX
User avatar
beanz
Microbot
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:10 pm
Location: Texas USA

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz »

Bizzley wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:46 pm
I think a Youtube video or two of that finished keyboard, the completed case, those super glossy keys, heck even one of the "almost there" prototypes that have been announced in the last few months would go down a treat. Nothing Hollywood, just a minute or two of footage so those of us who actually paid for it can get a hint or two of what our money has bought (sorry contributed.) Apart from a video from June last year showing the (now outdated and incorrectly coloured) case components that's it, there are more videos of people showing off their custom-created Next cases than there is of the official plastics.
Update 43 had photos of the "real thing", not sure what a video would add to that.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Bizzley
Microbot
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:47 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

beanz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:59 pm Update 43 had photos of the "real thing", not sure what a video would add to that.
For starters we could see how it looked in real life rather than in carefully lit, posed and photographed shots. We could see if it still had those awful feet, the kind that always break on PC keyboards. We could see how things have changed in the last 8 weeks since those photos were posted. We could see how the shiny, sharp glossy keys actually looked after being handled (not well if the photo you reposted is anything to go by, just look at the scratches, marks, uneven top edge and hair visible on the Number 3 key.) We could see how well peripherals plugged in, get a better idea of the keyboard response, how easy the opening and closing of the case is going to be.

But perhaps more importantly we could actually see video of an "almost ready" case, keyboard and PCB assembled and working rather than just being told it does month after month.

That's some of what I think a video would add.
"He made eloquent speeches to an audience consisting of a few depressed daffodil roots, and sometimes the cat from next door."
Alcoholics Anonymous
Microbot
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:36 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Alcoholics Anonymous »

If you are able to attend one of the retro events in the uk, you can get a chance to see an older version of the case in person. Jim has been going to almost all of them and has been bringing along a boxed, assembled, and functioning next using an earlier prototype case and is happy to explain what things needed fixing and why. Some people that have attended the shows have shared pictures and impressions on facebook. Not everyone can go of course but the next one he's attending is Play Manchester at the beginning of May. His prototype is a little worn now from being handled by hundreds of people but it's still (apparently) something to see.

There are still important things being worked on in the core, one of them you mentioned is the expansion bus and another is the pi interface for those getting a companion pi. Getting the majority of peripherals to work compatibly is resolved on paper only at this time. It's not a straightforward feat as many important peripherals only work on specific models of spectrums but the next is being constructed as a machine that can do all the spectrum models. It's also likely a separate level shifter thing will be recommended to plug into the expansion bus before peripherals and that could be used to resolve any issues with the physical mating of oddly shaped expansions.

Just to give an idea of some of the issues with peripherals:

* Legacy peripherals were only designed to work at 3.5MHz but the machine can run as fast as 14MHz. The speed is under the control of the user and can be changed at an time by pressing a function key (ps2 keyboard) or an M1 key (zx next keyboard or membrane). You don't want to limit the bus to 3.5MHz in case someone makes next specific peripherals so likely there has to be a mechanism to disable the expansion bus when the speed goes over some limit with the default limit being 3.5MHz.

* External peripherals can take the bottom 16k by asserting /romcs; devices like the if1 work this way. Since these devices can only operate at 3.5MHz, the machine will have to prevent the speed from rising above 3.5MHz while /romcs is asserted.

* Some devices monitor memory addresses throughout the 64k range. The currah uspeech is an example. It assumes it is attached to a 48k computer so it expects to see banks 5,2,0 all the time. How do you deal with that when your a 128k machine or you're a next with very flexible banking? The thinking is memory transactions should be disabled on the expansion bus when the standard banks 5,2,0 are not being accessed in their correct places in the memory map. This would be fore 48k peripherals only and 128k peripherals might expect something else so likely this behaviour would have to be configurable.

* Port conflicts with internal zx next devices have to be resolved. You don't want to turn everything off when the expansion bus is active though so likely internal devices have to have a way to be selectively switched off. Then if an internal device responds on a port, the io cycle is not propagated to the expansion bus.
Last edited by Alcoholics Anonymous on Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
beanz
Microbot
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:10 pm
Location: Texas USA

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz »

Bizzley wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:27 pm
beanz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:59 pm Update 43 had photos of the "real thing", not sure what a video would add to that.
For starters we could see how it looked in real life rather than in carefully lit, posed and photographed shots. We could see if it still had those awful feet, the kind that always break on PC keyboards. We could see how things have changed in the last 8 weeks since those photos were posted. We could see how the shiny, sharp glossy keys actually looked after being handled (not well if the photo you reposted is anything to go by, just look at the scratches, marks, uneven top edge and hair visible on the Number 3 key.) We could see how well peripherals plugged in, get a better idea of the keyboard response, how easy the opening and closing of the case is going to be.

But perhaps more importantly we could actually see video of an "almost ready" case, keyboard and PCB assembled and working rather than just being told it does month after month.

That's some of what I think a video would add.
Seems a bit OCD.

I'd expect all that would do is fuel a few "wow looks great" comments or "I don't like the way XXX does XXX"...neither of which is going to change much...and at this point change is the last thing we want anyway. lol
Bizzley
Microbot
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:47 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

It's all immaterial anyway, shortly we'll know for certain about everything. Because sometime in the next 10 weeks time a completed, boxed, no problems fully manualled Next along with with a spanking new firmware and all those stretch goal games will be coming through my door as promised.

Won't it? :?
"He made eloquent speeches to an audience consisting of a few depressed daffodil roots, and sometimes the cat from next door."
User avatar
beanz
Microbot
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:10 pm
Location: Texas USA

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz »

Bizzley wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:41 pm It's all immaterial anyway, shortly we'll know for certain about everything. Because sometime in the next 10 weeks time a completed, boxed, no problems fully manualled Next along with with a spanking new firmware and all those stretch goal games will be coming through my door as promised.

Won't it? :?
Maybe...I don't see it shipping by end of 2nd quarter as they said...it's about 5 weeks on the boat/customs etc. Even if it shipped tomorrow that would only leave 4 weeks for getting everything else together, assembly, testing and so on, and that assumes SMS even have a window open to do it all, I'm sure they are not sitting around doing nothing till the NEXTs cases show up.

I still can't believe they haven't even go the manuals printed yet...I'll laugh if the nexts are ready but the damn manual isn't.
redballoon
Manic Miner
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:54 pm

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by redballoon »

It's less than 2 weeks now for the Manchester Play Expo and there will be a sizeable Spectrum Next presence there from the team (I think) and games being released on it. I'm not sure about hardware, but I expect some of that to be showcased, too. Now, I'm not part of them but will be there in an unofficial (I suppose!) capacity due to upcoming release of Melkhior's Mansion on the Next.
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by R-Tape »

I'm still happy enough to wait, but that's easy for me to say because I don't have the time or ideas at the moment to know what to do with my Next when it does arrive.

But really, the Next has to be fully delivered this year...
Alcoholics Anonymous
Microbot
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:36 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Alcoholics Anonymous »

beanz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:06 pm I still can't believe they haven't even go the manuals printed yet...I'll laugh if the nexts are ready but the damn manual isn't.
The lead time is very short on the manuals. They won't be printed until just before they are needed to avoid having to pay storage costs.
Bizzley
Microbot
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:47 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

Alcoholics Anonymous wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:39 pm The lead time is very short on the manuals. They won't be printed until just before they are needed to avoid having to pay storage costs.
I've got a spare bedroom, and my attic is only half full, so if they need somewhere to store a few boxes of manuals until they're needed then I reckon I could do it for them for a fiver. Or a pint down the pub.
"He made eloquent speeches to an audience consisting of a few depressed daffodil roots, and sometimes the cat from next door."
Alcoholics Anonymous
Microbot
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:36 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Alcoholics Anonymous »

Bizzley wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:56 pm I've got a spare bedroom, and my attic is only half full, so if they need somewhere to store a few boxes of manuals until they're needed then I reckon I could do it for them for a fiver. Or a pint down the pub.
Most people's homes can't support 3500 lbs or so of material unless it's on a floor directly on the ground. If you're willing to pay for insurance (there won't be money to do it again) and then deliver on the day, all is good :)

There is plenty of opportunity to pay for extra unforeseen expenses but you can never get frivolous expenses back to cover those.
chrisgreen
Drutt
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:51 pm

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by chrisgreen »

Alcoholics Anonymous wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:39 pm
beanz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:06 pm I still can't believe they haven't even go the manuals printed yet...I'll laugh if the nexts are ready but the damn manual isn't.
The lead time is very short on the manuals. They won't be printed until just before they are needed to avoid having to pay storage costs.
I can vouch for this. I work in publishing and can confirm that the manuals (even big, chunky, spiral bound ones) can be printed, bound and shipped to SMS or wherever for packing in just a couple of days. It's the one thing about the Next that doesn't worry me. The hardware manufacture, whipping from China and final assembly - that is the bit that I'm more nervous about given how far behind schedule they are on this. Having backed for a fully-specced unit, in hindsight I wish I had gone for a dev board and then put it in a rubber keys case.
User avatar
beanz
Microbot
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:10 pm
Location: Texas USA

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz »

chrisgreen wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:03 pm
Alcoholics Anonymous wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:39 pm The lead time is very short on the manuals. They won't be printed until just before they are needed to avoid having to pay storage costs.
I can vouch for this. I work in publishing and can confirm that the manuals (even big, chunky, spiral bound ones) can be printed, bound and shipped to SMS or wherever for packing in just a couple of days. It's the one thing about the Next that doesn't worry me. The hardware manufacture, whipping from China and final assembly - that is the bit that I'm more nervous about given how far behind schedule they are on this. Having backed for a fully-specced unit, in hindsight I wish I had gone for a dev board and then put it in a rubber keys case.
That's good to know.

Yeah I got a dev board, I knew they were never going to make the schedule they suggested (working for an OEM and knowing how long poop takes).
Even with the DEV board though I'll be happy when the NEXT ships as that's when the scene should start to take off more I would imagine..when there are 4000 of them out there instead of 400.
User avatar
Pegaz
Dynamite Dan
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:44 pm

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Pegaz »

Does anyone know, what was the Spectrum Next presentation at the Play Expo Manchester?
Was it shown a fully completed computer with case or not?
Cant find anything on Next forum ...
User avatar
stupidget
Dynamite Dan
Posts: 1611
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:09 pm
Location: Sunny Wolverhampton

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by stupidget »

Pegaz wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 3:57 pm Does anyone know, what was the Spectrum Next presentation at the Play Expo Manchester?
Was it shown a fully completed computer with case or not?
Cant find anything on Next forum ...

It doesn't get much better than this vid with Baggley looking like a proud father:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/e2mR_OPwv0k
User avatar
arkannoyed
Manic Miner
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:56 am
Location: Northamptonshire

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by arkannoyed »

Have a look on their FB page. Seems there was a proper cased Next running Baggers in Space, then a few others in a multitude of coloured rubber key cases. Melkhiors Mansion looks good! A chap called Matthew Smith was playing some weird Mining game on the Next too!
Firefox

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Firefox »

I was reading this a little earlier!

https://www.specnext.com/play-expo-manchester/

Who's that playing Manic Miner on the Next prototype?!? :)
User avatar
Pegaz
Dynamite Dan
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:44 pm

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Pegaz »

Looks great, both case and box!
Obviously, all problems have been resolved, now is the delivery time. :)
Bizzley
Microbot
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:47 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

Pegaz wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 4:35 pm Looks great, both case and box!
Obviously, all problems have been resolved, now is the delivery time. :)
From the Specnet website expo page - "our wonderful backers who got to see a prototype cased Next for the first time"

I'll be putting the flags out when they show a production cased Next rather than one of the many prototypes they've been showing off these past months. I could be a Negative Norman and say that I disagree with you about the problems being solved but since there's been no official news to the backers about the Next since March then I can't say if you're wrong or right.

BTW Does anyone know what were they saying at Expo as to the expected delivery date for the Next?
Last edited by Bizzley on Tue May 07, 2019 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"He made eloquent speeches to an audience consisting of a few depressed daffodil roots, and sometimes the cat from next door."
Daren
Manic Miner
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:22 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Daren »

Loads of posts and videos from the weekend on the Next Facebook group (No FB account required).

After having a go on it, I'm mightily impressed, and can't wait to receive mine.
User avatar
Pegaz
Dynamite Dan
Posts: 1209
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:44 pm

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Pegaz »

Great, thanks.
According to this video, it seems that keyboard is pretty good and robust. :)

https://www.facebook.com/dailly/videos/ ... 750229900/
Daren
Manic Miner
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:22 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Daren »

Description for the above video: [link]

"Please be note this isn’t “fixed” in place yet, so it’s a bit wobbly at the edges, but it’s absolutely solid in the middle - utterly lovely."

In the comments, the wobbling is due to "...keyboard has the wrong sized screw holes, that’s fixed now"
User avatar
zxbruno
Manic Miner
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:13 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by zxbruno »

I read somewhere else that the designer of the hardware ignored the concerns of people who pointed out a few flaws and recommended addressing them. Does anyone know if they were addressed? I don't know anything about hardware, so I don't understand the details. But it was something about the danger of having the FPGA directly connected to something, and bad implementation of HDMI.
toot_toot
Manic Miner
Posts: 676
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:17 pm

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by toot_toot »

Jim Bagley made it really clear on the Facebook group that the Next on show at Play Expo was the only working prototype they had (which was rejected)

I totally understand the issues of working as a remote team, but here are a couple of interesting Facebook posts from Jim Bagley and Mike Cadwallader, who are both on the Next team.
Mike Cadwallader People are fed up of asking for updates and people are also fed up of people asking for updates I get that. Some are content with whatever the situation may be. Asking in here is asking the wrong person. Bear in mind that Henrique runs the Kickstarter and that he is not actually on here to see any such requests.
Over the past 18 months or so I have been channeling the sentiment and requests from this group and building up points and topics for the KS updates. This I then throw over to Henrique and then I pester him to get time away from his day job to author a new update.
This was fine for a time but my motivation on this front has been severely lacking of late. Call it weariness on my part. This is also partly due to the lack of appreciable change on many aspects of the Next front.
Henrique knows that backers need updates and nothing would please him more to have an arsenal of information to disseminate. If there is no news then there really is no news. If things plod on for a significant amount of time with no knowledge sharing then perhaps we need to share some information on any current issues. Issues always look better in a KS update when we have a happy ending, not a cliff hanger. This has been mentioned in the past that updates are often not made when we're in an indeterminate state.
So yes it has been very quiet, the wheels of progress are more the vehicle that used to move the Space Shuttle into place than something that turns visibility to the eye.
Jim Bagley The infornation is the same as the last lot just because it's been a couple of weeks things sadly ( yes I mean for us moreso than you lot as we want to get our Nexts too just as much as the rest of you and the sooner we get them to you the sooner we won't hear where is our Next. ) but the thing is these things take time and we don't have an informative other than we're waiting on them making a fixed membrane, and for those lucky enough to be going to Play Expo this weekend I will be bringing the prototype case and membrane and keyboard that were rejected by us and I will happily explain and show the reasons they were rejected which is why we are still all waiting for our Nexts to arrive. And if you're really good boys and girls I may let you play a game on it, to see what you think of the keyboard. So yeah the update is we don't have any new info over the previous update other then my awesome band of brothers called the Next Men will be heading to Play Expo Manchester for the weekend to let people who haven't got one yet play on our board only versions in various cases and some without cases. Because we're either good guys or stupid when we could be relaxing at home playing and making games, or just spending time with our families
It sounds like the both of them have no actual idea how the Next is progressing, they're as much in the dark as everyone else as to when it's going to be finished.

While it's nice that there is a sort of update hidden away in the Facebook group, it doesn't look great that two of the team don't have any more information when we're now 6 weeks before the Next is supposed to be in the hands of the backers (the deadline issued a few months ago was Q2 2019). When one of the team, Mike Cadwallader, is saying he's lost motivation due to the lack of "appreciable change on many aspects of the Next front", then that's even more worrying.
Daren
Manic Miner
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:22 am

Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Daren »

Post Reply