ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

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beanz
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz »

beanz wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:51 pm
Pegaz wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:56 pm I'm wondering for example, if there will be additional postal charges from England to worldwide destinations in case of no-deal Brexit?
Seems like if there is those additional costs and responsibilities are on the shipper.
Seems like if there are additional costs the responsibility is on the shipper.

Fixed.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by AndyC »

One has to hope that the delays (and suggestions) are due to real problems that might have been unforeseen, such as responsiveness or real usability issues. It would be a very sad day indeed if this project also became another Vega+ debacle, and one I'm not entirely sure the scene could survive.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

AndyC wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:45 pm One has to hope that the delays (and suggestions) are due to real problems that might have been unforeseen, such as responsiveness or real usability issues.
If only that were the case. It's not my opinion that the keyboard was fully working and ready for mass production in February but the developers - "Long story short, this all means that now we’re ready to produce the keyboard, case and ship them over to get the Next assembled and sent to the backers."

But that apparently wasn't good enough since at that time the following "tweaks" were requested, seemingly on a whim:

The Enter key felt heavier to press than the other keys;
Four keys missed the tweak to remove a tiny injection bulge;
The connector ribbons had to be extended a bit and;
The screws inserts should be 3mm rather than 2.5mm


I've added my emphasis to each to try and point out the triviality of the changes requested. I for one could have lived with 2.5mm screws and tiny injection bulges on four keys.

Apparently the knock-on effect of requesting these changes was ignored, naively assuming that these changes would go 'live' in a major production run without first being formally signed off. I don't think this could be called unforseen by any definition of the word.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Alcoholics Anonymous »

Bizzley wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:42 pm I've added my emphasis to each to try and point out the triviality of the changes requested. I for one could have lived with 2.5mm screws and tiny injection bulges on four keys.
This is possibly the one and only time a real case like this can be made for a spectrum. It's better to get the job done right if you can. However the main issue has been key responsiveness. There's no question it can be fixed up but the problem is the zx next project is tiny and is at the bottom of every supplier's to-do list. It can take weeks for a supplier to even look at a reported issue.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

Alcoholics Anonymous wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:27 am It can take weeks for a supplier to even look at a reported issue.
I absolutely agree with that. My POV though is that some of these reported "issues" are entirely down to the choice and hubris of the developers rather than necessary changes in order to turn a non-working product into a working one.

Case(!) in point. Slightly longer case screws and a slightly longer ribbon cable won't make the Next work better, they are there so that people who want to repeatedly open and close the case can do so more than they could before the change. It was always meant to be this way, it was designed to be this way, the original spec lengths were good enough but somebody decided that the delays (and costs!) necessary to redesign, retool and retest to allow for even more openings and closings was more important than actually delivering on time.

I think a Youtube video or two of that finished keyboard, the completed case, those super glossy keys, heck even one of the "almost there" prototypes that have been announced in the last few months would go down a treat. Nothing Hollywood, just a minute or two of footage so those of us who actually paid for it can get a hint or two of what our money has bought (sorry contributed.) Apart from a video from June last year showing the (now outdated and incorrectly coloured) case components that's it, there are more videos of people showing off their custom-created Next cases than there is of the official plastics.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz »

Bizzley wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:46 pm
I think a Youtube video or two of that finished keyboard, the completed case, those super glossy keys, heck even one of the "almost there" prototypes that have been announced in the last few months would go down a treat. Nothing Hollywood, just a minute or two of footage so those of us who actually paid for it can get a hint or two of what our money has bought (sorry contributed.) Apart from a video from June last year showing the (now outdated and incorrectly coloured) case components that's it, there are more videos of people showing off their custom-created Next cases than there is of the official plastics.
Update 43 had photos of the "real thing", not sure what a video would add to that.

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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

beanz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:59 pm Update 43 had photos of the "real thing", not sure what a video would add to that.
For starters we could see how it looked in real life rather than in carefully lit, posed and photographed shots. We could see if it still had those awful feet, the kind that always break on PC keyboards. We could see how things have changed in the last 8 weeks since those photos were posted. We could see how the shiny, sharp glossy keys actually looked after being handled (not well if the photo you reposted is anything to go by, just look at the scratches, marks, uneven top edge and hair visible on the Number 3 key.) We could see how well peripherals plugged in, get a better idea of the keyboard response, how easy the opening and closing of the case is going to be.

But perhaps more importantly we could actually see video of an "almost ready" case, keyboard and PCB assembled and working rather than just being told it does month after month.

That's some of what I think a video would add.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Alcoholics Anonymous »

If you are able to attend one of the retro events in the uk, you can get a chance to see an older version of the case in person. Jim has been going to almost all of them and has been bringing along a boxed, assembled, and functioning next using an earlier prototype case and is happy to explain what things needed fixing and why. Some people that have attended the shows have shared pictures and impressions on facebook. Not everyone can go of course but the next one he's attending is Play Manchester at the beginning of May. His prototype is a little worn now from being handled by hundreds of people but it's still (apparently) something to see.

There are still important things being worked on in the core, one of them you mentioned is the expansion bus and another is the pi interface for those getting a companion pi. Getting the majority of peripherals to work compatibly is resolved on paper only at this time. It's not a straightforward feat as many important peripherals only work on specific models of spectrums but the next is being constructed as a machine that can do all the spectrum models. It's also likely a separate level shifter thing will be recommended to plug into the expansion bus before peripherals and that could be used to resolve any issues with the physical mating of oddly shaped expansions.

Just to give an idea of some of the issues with peripherals:

* Legacy peripherals were only designed to work at 3.5MHz but the machine can run as fast as 14MHz. The speed is under the control of the user and can be changed at an time by pressing a function key (ps2 keyboard) or an M1 key (zx next keyboard or membrane). You don't want to limit the bus to 3.5MHz in case someone makes next specific peripherals so likely there has to be a mechanism to disable the expansion bus when the speed goes over some limit with the default limit being 3.5MHz.

* External peripherals can take the bottom 16k by asserting /romcs; devices like the if1 work this way. Since these devices can only operate at 3.5MHz, the machine will have to prevent the speed from rising above 3.5MHz while /romcs is asserted.

* Some devices monitor memory addresses throughout the 64k range. The currah uspeech is an example. It assumes it is attached to a 48k computer so it expects to see banks 5,2,0 all the time. How do you deal with that when your a 128k machine or you're a next with very flexible banking? The thinking is memory transactions should be disabled on the expansion bus when the standard banks 5,2,0 are not being accessed in their correct places in the memory map. This would be fore 48k peripherals only and 128k peripherals might expect something else so likely this behaviour would have to be configurable.

* Port conflicts with internal zx next devices have to be resolved. You don't want to turn everything off when the expansion bus is active though so likely internal devices have to have a way to be selectively switched off. Then if an internal device responds on a port, the io cycle is not propagated to the expansion bus.
Last edited by Alcoholics Anonymous on Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

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Bizzley wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:27 pm
beanz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:59 pm Update 43 had photos of the "real thing", not sure what a video would add to that.
For starters we could see how it looked in real life rather than in carefully lit, posed and photographed shots. We could see if it still had those awful feet, the kind that always break on PC keyboards. We could see how things have changed in the last 8 weeks since those photos were posted. We could see how the shiny, sharp glossy keys actually looked after being handled (not well if the photo you reposted is anything to go by, just look at the scratches, marks, uneven top edge and hair visible on the Number 3 key.) We could see how well peripherals plugged in, get a better idea of the keyboard response, how easy the opening and closing of the case is going to be.

But perhaps more importantly we could actually see video of an "almost ready" case, keyboard and PCB assembled and working rather than just being told it does month after month.

That's some of what I think a video would add.
Seems a bit OCD.

I'd expect all that would do is fuel a few "wow looks great" comments or "I don't like the way XXX does XXX"...neither of which is going to change much...and at this point change is the last thing we want anyway. lol
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

It's all immaterial anyway, shortly we'll know for certain about everything. Because sometime in the next 10 weeks time a completed, boxed, no problems fully manualled Next along with with a spanking new firmware and all those stretch goal games will be coming through my door as promised.

Won't it? :?
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz »

Bizzley wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:41 pm It's all immaterial anyway, shortly we'll know for certain about everything. Because sometime in the next 10 weeks time a completed, boxed, no problems fully manualled Next along with with a spanking new firmware and all those stretch goal games will be coming through my door as promised.

Won't it? :?
Maybe...I don't see it shipping by end of 2nd quarter as they said...it's about 5 weeks on the boat/customs etc. Even if it shipped tomorrow that would only leave 4 weeks for getting everything else together, assembly, testing and so on, and that assumes SMS even have a window open to do it all, I'm sure they are not sitting around doing nothing till the NEXTs cases show up.

I still can't believe they haven't even go the manuals printed yet...I'll laugh if the nexts are ready but the damn manual isn't.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by redballoon »

It's less than 2 weeks now for the Manchester Play Expo and there will be a sizeable Spectrum Next presence there from the team (I think) and games being released on it. I'm not sure about hardware, but I expect some of that to be showcased, too. Now, I'm not part of them but will be there in an unofficial (I suppose!) capacity due to upcoming release of Melkhior's Mansion on the Next.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by R-Tape »

I'm still happy enough to wait, but that's easy for me to say because I don't have the time or ideas at the moment to know what to do with my Next when it does arrive.

But really, the Next has to be fully delivered this year...
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

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beanz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:06 pm I still can't believe they haven't even go the manuals printed yet...I'll laugh if the nexts are ready but the damn manual isn't.
The lead time is very short on the manuals. They won't be printed until just before they are needed to avoid having to pay storage costs.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

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Alcoholics Anonymous wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:39 pm The lead time is very short on the manuals. They won't be printed until just before they are needed to avoid having to pay storage costs.
I've got a spare bedroom, and my attic is only half full, so if they need somewhere to store a few boxes of manuals until they're needed then I reckon I could do it for them for a fiver. Or a pint down the pub.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Alcoholics Anonymous »

Bizzley wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:56 pm I've got a spare bedroom, and my attic is only half full, so if they need somewhere to store a few boxes of manuals until they're needed then I reckon I could do it for them for a fiver. Or a pint down the pub.
Most people's homes can't support 3500 lbs or so of material unless it's on a floor directly on the ground. If you're willing to pay for insurance (there won't be money to do it again) and then deliver on the day, all is good :)

There is plenty of opportunity to pay for extra unforeseen expenses but you can never get frivolous expenses back to cover those.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by chrisgreen »

Alcoholics Anonymous wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:39 pm
beanz wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:06 pm I still can't believe they haven't even go the manuals printed yet...I'll laugh if the nexts are ready but the damn manual isn't.
The lead time is very short on the manuals. They won't be printed until just before they are needed to avoid having to pay storage costs.
I can vouch for this. I work in publishing and can confirm that the manuals (even big, chunky, spiral bound ones) can be printed, bound and shipped to SMS or wherever for packing in just a couple of days. It's the one thing about the Next that doesn't worry me. The hardware manufacture, whipping from China and final assembly - that is the bit that I'm more nervous about given how far behind schedule they are on this. Having backed for a fully-specced unit, in hindsight I wish I had gone for a dev board and then put it in a rubber keys case.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz »

chrisgreen wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:03 pm
Alcoholics Anonymous wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:39 pm The lead time is very short on the manuals. They won't be printed until just before they are needed to avoid having to pay storage costs.
I can vouch for this. I work in publishing and can confirm that the manuals (even big, chunky, spiral bound ones) can be printed, bound and shipped to SMS or wherever for packing in just a couple of days. It's the one thing about the Next that doesn't worry me. The hardware manufacture, whipping from China and final assembly - that is the bit that I'm more nervous about given how far behind schedule they are on this. Having backed for a fully-specced unit, in hindsight I wish I had gone for a dev board and then put it in a rubber keys case.
That's good to know.

Yeah I got a dev board, I knew they were never going to make the schedule they suggested (working for an OEM and knowing how long poop takes).
Even with the DEV board though I'll be happy when the NEXT ships as that's when the scene should start to take off more I would imagine..when there are 4000 of them out there instead of 400.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Pegaz »

Does anyone know, what was the Spectrum Next presentation at the Play Expo Manchester?
Was it shown a fully completed computer with case or not?
Cant find anything on Next forum ...
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by stupidget »

Pegaz wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 3:57 pm Does anyone know, what was the Spectrum Next presentation at the Play Expo Manchester?
Was it shown a fully completed computer with case or not?
Cant find anything on Next forum ...

It doesn't get much better than this vid with Baggley looking like a proud father:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/e2mR_OPwv0k
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by arkannoyed »

Have a look on their FB page. Seems there was a proper cased Next running Baggers in Space, then a few others in a multitude of coloured rubber key cases. Melkhiors Mansion looks good! A chap called Matthew Smith was playing some weird Mining game on the Next too!
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Firefox »

I was reading this a little earlier!

https://www.specnext.com/play-expo-manchester/

Who's that playing Manic Miner on the Next prototype?!? :)
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Pegaz »

Looks great, both case and box!
Obviously, all problems have been resolved, now is the delivery time. :)
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

Pegaz wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 4:35 pm Looks great, both case and box!
Obviously, all problems have been resolved, now is the delivery time. :)
From the Specnet website expo page - "our wonderful backers who got to see a prototype cased Next for the first time"

I'll be putting the flags out when they show a production cased Next rather than one of the many prototypes they've been showing off these past months. I could be a Negative Norman and say that I disagree with you about the problems being solved but since there's been no official news to the backers about the Next since March then I can't say if you're wrong or right.

BTW Does anyone know what were they saying at Expo as to the expected delivery date for the Next?
Last edited by Bizzley on Tue May 07, 2019 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Daren »

Loads of posts and videos from the weekend on the Next Facebook group (No FB account required).

After having a go on it, I'm mightily impressed, and can't wait to receive mine.
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