ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

[Alcoholics Anonymous]

My opinion is that people behind crowdunding projects are often enthusiasts good at their passion (programming, soldering, designing) but just as often are lame at "making business". It they were good with business, they would be able to secure money for their project in traditional way (like taking a credit at bank) and not beg for money through crowdfunding. And somehow I feel that with a bank credit which you have to pay or you're kicked out of your flat people become more efficient and less careless

3000 machines is not a business; it's a hobby. If you're making 100,000 - 1 million you can start thinking it's a business. Without a crowdfunding something like the zx next would not be possible unless driven by a benevolent millionaire.

[PeterJ]

I think the problem with these projects is undefined scope and lack of realism.
It would be much easier to create a 200% accurate emulator and bundle it with a spectrum styled computer keyboard and joypad.
And perhaps much cheaper and with less risk for all.

I agree. ARM based boards like the Raspberry Pi Zero which retail for $5 could be put into something equivalent to the recreated Spectrum. You could the run Fuse or ZesarUX. You could also build a portable version like the Nintendo DSi

I'm not underestimating the amount of planning and other work needed, but at least you wouldn't.need to create the electronics from scratch As long as backers knew from the start that it was based on a Pi they could make an informed decision.

[1024MAK]

Part of the reason I backed the ZX Spectrum Next, is the new case and keyboard. Having obtained various third party keyboards over the years for use with ZX81s and ZX Spectrums, and having various other microcomputers from the 1980s and 1990s, I just cannot scratch the itch of wanting to have a good looking ZX Spectrum with a good keyboard. Ironically, by the time Amstrad introduced the +2, I was looking at buying an Atari STFM (and then did go down that route).

I’m sorry, but I have never been a fan of Sinclair’s existing ZX Spectrum+ / ZX Spectrum 128k / QL keyboard’s (although the QL keyboard is very slightly better than the one on the Spectrum). At least with the rubber key, you knew that the keyboard would be, err, rubbery!

Mind, it’s still a gamble (for me) if the keyboard on the ZX Spectrum Next will meet with my expectations....

Mark

[Pegaz]

I think the problem with these projects is undefined scope and lack of realism.
It would be much easier to create a 200% accurate emulator and bundle it with a spectrum styled computer keyboard and joypad.
And perhaps much cheaper and with less risk for all.

I agree. ARM based boards like the Raspberry Pi Zero which retail for $5 could be put into something equivalent to the recreated Spectrum. You could the run Fuse or ZesarUX. You could also build a portable version like the Nintendo DSi

I'm not underestimating the amount of planning and other work needed, but at least you wouldn't.need to create the electronics from scratch As long as backers knew from the start that it was based on a Pi they could make an informed decision.

True.
Even better, with the new Pi3 A+, you can get full speed Next emulation for just $25.

Part of the reason I backed the ZX Spectrum Next, is the new case and keyboard. Having obtained various third party keyboards over the years for use with ZX81s and ZX Spectrums, and having various other microcomputers from the 1980s and 1990s, I just cannot scratch the itch of wanting to have a good looking ZX Spectrum with a good keyboard. Ironically, by the time Amstrad introduced the +2, I was looking at buying an Atari STFM (and then did go down that route).

I’m sorry, but I have never been a fan of Sinclair’s existing ZX Spectrum+ / ZX Spectrum 128k / QL keyboard’s (although the QL keyboard is very slightly better than the one on the Spectrum). At least with the rubber key, you knew that the keyboard would be, err, rubbery!

Mind, it’s still a gamble (for me) if the keyboard on the ZX Spectrum Next will meet with my expectations....

Mark

You right, of course.
Still, some forum experts believe that "Next" is just a board.
It's a shame they havent informed Henrique and team, that they have no need to bother with the fancy case and keyboard...

[Bizzley]

Mind, it’s still a gamble (for me) if the keyboard on the ZX Spectrum Next will meet with my expectations....

Like you I made use of a fair amount of third-party Spectrum keyboards, some good, some bad, and companies like DK'Tronics didn't seem to have a problem designing and knocking them out to us on a fairly regular basis. While I have to say that they wouldn't have won any awards for innovative industrial design they usually did work and were pretty reliable on the whole. I would break more joysticks than keyboards and if I did have to get a new one it was probably because of the print on the keys rubbing off rather than mechanical failure.

I'll believe in the keyboard after I've seen someone playing one of the sports button-basher games like Daley Thompson's Decathlon for an hour on it.

[Hernan]

It would be possible to run a reduced version of the next on the uno, for example, and such a thing might appear within a few days of the source being made public

This already exists, but with an older version when both systems shared the same FPGA and it was called TBBlue.

http://www.zxuno.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=491

[Alcoholics Anonymous]

This already exists, but with an older version when both systems shared the same FPGA and it was called TBBlue.
http://www.zxuno.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=491

That was a very early version which wasn't much more than a standard zx spectrum implementation The next cores the early devs were using on their unos were real zx next cores with features removed to fit.

TBBLUE is printed on the zx next PCBs.. It's kind of hard to define what TBBLUE means but it seems to me that it is a vhdl shell with a library of modules which can be used to synthesize a variety of machines. The zx next repository only contains modules for z80 machines and the zx next features. Victor has another core "the multicore" that contains implementations for a lot of other machines but is still TBBLUE.

I agree. ARM based boards like the Raspberry Pi Zero which retail for $5 could be put into something equivalent to the recreated Spectrum. You could the run Fuse or ZesarUX. You could also build a portable version like the Nintendo DSi

At the moment there are two zx next emulators but neither one is a complete emulation.

Zesarux is closest to a full emulation (and aims to be eventually) and it can be compiled for raspberry pi but even on my 2.2GHz i7 laptop it only achieves ~10% emulation speed under windows. Part of it could be that zesarux is primarily aimed at linux machines so there are inefficiencies in the windows build but this should be a strong indicator that there's no chance full emulation speed will be possible on the pis using zesarux as things are now. If there's somebody here actually running zesarux on the pis, maybe they could comment.

Cspect is the other one and has recently been ported to C# so can also target linux now; formerly it was windows only. It is not a full emulation and never will be - it's really emulating a 128k spectrum with most of the display hardware on the next and is not timing accurate. It's good for game dev (it's intended purpose) but it cannot run the operating system nor field much more than basic disk io among the io available on the next. The author did try compiling it and running on a pi zero but it stuttered and did not run full speed. Maybe on faster pis it could run full speed.

Eventually I am sure there could be reasonable emulation on the newest pis. It's also worth mentioning the price for fpga boards are rapidly coming down to the same levels. The main price contributor to the next is not the board but other things like the case.

[PQR]

I am a Next backer, no. 2,087, and I am not worried.
Contrary to some other people here, to me the Next’s appeal is all about the case.

The fact that the Next case has been designed by the same man who designed the original Sinclair hardware originally caught my attention. Now that this project has (sadly) become Rick Dickinson’s swan song makes it even more special to me.

Having something produced in a small run of only a couple of thousand units is not normal in the world of manufacturing.
Delays and setbacks were to be expected, and I think the team handles them well.
There is also help from Rick Dickinson’s team where it concerns overseeing manufacturing and QA. These are not amateurs.

Yes, it is a pity that the project is delayed.
But I have a strong impression that the team is able to deliver the case, similar to how they have already delivered the board.

[Alcoholics Anonymous]

I'm not underestimating the amount of planning and other work needed, but at least you wouldn't.need to create the electronics from scratch As long as backers knew from the start that it was based on a Pi they could make an informed decision.

The risk in the project is in the physical case.

The kickstarter unlocked goals did require a new pcb but that was a minor risk. The fpga hw was already done. Even though the core hw continues to evolve it was never a risk because of the nature of fpgas. The end user can easily update the core hw himself which means there is no point where the core is frozen and can never be changed.

[toot_toot]

Just re/reading the end of the last update, I think some of this text highlights some of the concerns some backers have

We’ve been accelerating the keyboard production as of late, now that most adjustments to the keys have been done. Myself, Mike and Phil are in daily contact with the keyboard partner, pushing the production along as fast as we can. Now it’s getting the keys printed, the T2 keyboard assembled and fitted in the case, and full production.

Most people working on the project today are original backers who volunteered their time to help out. We’re as frustrated as any backer with the delay, and as eager to get our Nexts as everyone else. I, for one, can’t wait to have my Next sitting on my desk playing Baggers in Space… We will continue to push and get it out as soon as we can, rest assured.

After a lengthy update with all of the “to-do” project items, the update finishes with a vague “we will get it out as soon as we can”. Not any indication of timescales or what the next milestones in that list are, just “it will be ready when it’s ready”. Except er’ve Been given several updates telling us we’re in the final push. But here we are in November with no idea when it’s going to be ready - but the concerning thing is that the project organisers don’t even seem to know when it is going to be ready.

The other worry is just how much money they’re now spending on the keyboard. Every time they’re making a tweak, that costs money. The last thing we want to hear is that they’ve run out of money trying to make something that’s already freely available from the likes of ZX Renew.

Not hitting timescales is a concern, but then even simple promises like a new update every two weeks, because the project is now well past the January deadline, are being regularly broken. The last update was due last sunday. But nothing. Not even something like “there’s nothing to update” or “we’re really busy but we’ll give another update in a few days time”. Now that it’s even easier than ever to give short updates via Facebook or Twitter, It’s very frustrating, even more so when the team seem to find time going to various retro gaming events taking a ZX Renew cased Next and showing off a handheld Next prototype. Hey, where’s our updates on the cased Next that raised over £600k in funds??!?!?

While the updates are certainly better than the likes of the Vega+, the team are really missing how to keep the backers on their side with regular (as promised) updates with at least some sort of timescale indications. The longer this goes on, the more annoyed, frustrated and angry the backers are going to get.

[beanz]

A lack of timely updates isn't a concern to me...sure I'd like them but it doesn't cause me any concern or worry...maybe they are holding back the next update as a "Christmas gift"..re: a shipping announcement...updates don't guarantee anything anyway...Vega+ updated people with the likes of "In production!" "Shipping in 2 weeks!" "units are being shipped!" horsepoop multiple times.

[Bizzley]

Vega+ updated people with the likes of "In production!" "Shipping in 2 weeks!" "units are being shipped!" horsepoop multiple times.

The Spectrum Next has had similar "horsepoop" announcements about shipping - "We’ll have our Nexts this Summer!" - I just think they learned from the Vega+ debacle not to give absolutes but go with fuzzy instead hence "as soon as we can". If you don't want to give a definite date you can always go with a negative..."don't expect delivery this side of Winter"....that kind of thing. You are not committing to anything but at least you are letting people know not to keep asking if the postman has a parcel for them today.

BTW I really hope the Superbacker who posted in the Kickstarter comments for the last update was being ironic when they said they were looking forward to a great year of updates before getting the Next [in 2020]. But the more you read the post more you get the feeling they weren't.

[beanz]

Vega+ updated people with the likes of "In production!" "Shipping in 2 weeks!" "units are being shipped!" horsepoop multiple times.

The Spectrum Next has had similar "horsepoop" announcements about shipping - "We’ll have our Nexts this Summer!" -

Yeah again not even close to the same thing...Vega+ team made a dozen such announcements with nothing tangible to support it.

If you don't want to give a definite date you can always go with a negative..."don't expect delivery this side of Winter"....that kind of thing. You are not committing to anything but at least you are letting people know not to keep asking if the postman has a parcel for them today.

Wouldn't a better lesson be to make no announcements in either direction until you are 100% sure?...I think so. I'm sure we'll be the first to know when there is something to know...

[beanz]

So latest update said Q2 of 2019 by the latest but they'd try and ship sooner.

[Bizzley]

So do they mean the UK Calendar Q2 - April to June, or the UK Fiscal Q2 - July to September? No I'm not being negative, just pointing out how you can make things mean whatever you want

But at least they've come out with a generalised date which is what I was looking for all along, OK it's a 'no later than 28 weeks from today' date but it's 100% better than the 'fingers crossed we hope it'll be soon' type announcements they've been coming up with.

I did find the invitation in the update to head over to a website so I can buy games to download and play on the Next right now a tad....thoughtless....perhaps. Just what exactly am I meant to play them on?

[Sokurah]

Just what exactly am I meant to play them on?

Well, there are about 400 boards out there after all. Perhaps not much use to you, but useful for the people that has a board.

[Bizzley]

Well, there are about 400 boards out there after all.

I thought it was 130-140, give or take a few, as that's the number that backed the "Just The Board" option on Kickstarter. Do you know where the extra 250+ came from as I didn't think they were selling the board outside of Kickstarter?

Perhaps not much use to you

No you're right, not much use to me nor the 2700+ others waiting for a boxed Next.

[Alcoholics Anonymous]

I thought it was 130-140, give or take a few, as that's the number that backed the "Just The Board" option on Kickstarter. Do you know where the extra 250+ came from as I didn't think they were selling the board outside of Kickstarter?

After the kickstarter closed, they made it possible for people to get a unit via the shop until the parts order deadline. About 400 boards in total were shipped.

That person has been selling Next sw for months and mentioning his site when video of one of his games was used in the update only makes sense. It sounds a lot like you're looking for a reason to be miffed.

[Daren]

I did find the invitation in the update to head over to a website so I can buy games to download and play on the Next right now a tad....thoughtless....perhaps. Just what exactly am I meant to play them on?

I've been playing the three Next games I've bought on the CSpect emulator (Windows, v1.18 and above recommended): http://dailly.blogspot.com/2018/09/cspect-118.html . Couldn't wait until I got my cased Next, but I'll play them on that when it arrives obv.

[Bizzley]

It sounds a lot like you're looking for a reason to be miffed.

It was a genuine question. Not being on Facebook I have no access to the closed Next FB group(s) and trying unsuccessfully (twice) to join the Specnext Forums without a confirmation email means I've probably missed some of the answers to the questions I ask. But thank you for clearing that up for me.

There used to be an old saying, "if you're not for us then you're agin us" which seem to have become the prevailing attitude nowadays to most things where opinions are mixed, especially online. I don't think it was the Vega+ debacle that was the first to coin the nasty word "hater" for those who weren't 100% behind something (and made that doubt public) and Joefish has recently posted in a Thread on here about what can happen if you don't toe the proverbial company line in some circumstances. Fortunately the Next campaign has (and likely never will) fall to to that basement level of spite and childishness, the product is coming, it now has a "no later than" date and confidence is high. But it is OK to hold and voice a different opinion towards some some aspects of the campaign, isn't it, or have I missed something else?

[beanz]

Just what exactly am I meant to play them on?

Well, there are about 400 boards out there after all. Perhaps not much use to you, but useful for the people that has a board.

Yep, 400 and change. The numbers were not fully reflected on the campaign. It only reflected those who specifically bought the board, not those who purchased a full next and then added the difference for a board too (like I did). It was mentioned back then there were 400+ boards made and shipped.

[beanz]

It sounds a lot like you're looking for a reason to be miffed.

But it is OK to hold and voice a different opinion towards some some aspects of the campaign, isn't it, or have I missed something else?

Nope that's fine...but it might come across as an "I told you so" attitude rather than being constructive. I knew for example DURING the campaign they were never going to meet that shipping estimate...it was laughably naive (I work for an OEM and am fully aware how long it takes to bring new products to market etc). As such I didn't expect delivery of the finished unit anytime soon and that's why I got a board too...boards are easy to make and deliver etc.

[Bizzley]

As such I didn't expect delivery of the finished unit anytime soon and that's why I got a board too...boards are easy to make and deliver etc.

Have you (or anyone else reading this) had any experience with plastic cases and keyboards, it would be interesting to know whether the estimated 18 months (max) it's taking to put the ready-built PCBs into a plastic box is par for the course or not.

The only experience similar to this I've had was when we were putting the old Spectrum Echosoft keyboard deal together. I know it took about half a dozen friends and family less than a month to put almost 10,000 units together from pre-assembled components but there were no instruction manuals, duplicated cassettes, inlays, interface PCBs cables or even plastic cases to put the PCBs in at the start of that month, they took about a week to source and then were delivered on a rolling basis. Dixons didn't want to hear that in a year's time everything would be better looking and cooler and the software would have more functions, they had told people they could have it for Christmas and that meant delivery to them in 4 weeks time. Of course corners were cut - I had to hack the software so I know they were! - but a date had been agreed and we did whatever we had to do to make sure they were delivered on time and of an acceptable quality.

[beanz]

As such I didn't expect delivery of the finished unit anytime soon and that's why I got a board too...boards are easy to make and deliver etc.

Have you (or anyone else reading this) had any experience with plastic cases and keyboards, it would be interesting to know whether the estimated 18 months (max) it's taking to put the ready-built PCBs into a plastic box is par for the course or not.

The only experience similar to this I've had was when we were putting the old Spectrum Echosoft keyboard deal together. I know it took about half a dozen friends and family less than a month to put almost 10,000 units together from pre-assembled components but there were no instruction manuals, duplicated cassettes, inlays, interface PCBs cables or even plastic cases to put the PCBs in at the start of that month, they took about a week to source and then were delivered on a rolling basis. Dixons didn't want to hear that in a year's time everything would be better looking and cooler and the software would have more functions, they had told people they could have it for Christmas and that meant delivery to them in 4 weeks time. Of course corners were cut - I had to hack the software so I know they were! - but a date had been agreed and we did whatever we had to do to make sure they were delivered on time and of an acceptable quality.

Yes, as I say I work for an OEM manufacturing power conditioning equipment that involves circuit boards, metal chassis, plastic chassis, from design to ordering parts to delivering the finished product etc.

You're simplifying the "ready PCB in a plastic box"...as the spectrum next case isn't a "plastic box". It's about as complicated as it gets as far as creating plastics from scratch goes...and on top of that finding someone willing to do a short run (which 3000+ is) at a reasonable price...aka a price that fits in with the $$ available. Sure you could find someone to do it faster if money was no object...but money is an object when you have a finite amount to work from.

As far as 18 months go it's a little long sure...but then these guys are not professional manufacturers...our products can take 6 months to a year on average from idea to deliverable product...we've been doing it for 30+ years...so 18 months for amateurs isn't bad at all.

[Bizzley]

Just to clarify, the 18 months I stated was from when the Next was due (Jan 2018) up to the stated maximum of June 30th 2019. The development date for the Next actually runs from May 2017 when the campaign closed making it slightly over an estimated two years. From your experience and what you say I'm beginning to think the vastly understated original delivery date had more to do with amateurs telling the backers what they wanted to hear rather than it being a realistic professional estimation. But that's all done now, we're on the clock and hopefully they will be doing their best to deliver it even before Q2 as they hope.