ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

[hikoki]

The problem has been and always will be that a purely mechanical membrane keyboard system is never good at making two independent switch contacts at the same time. Even during the days of Sinclair. Far too often on my ZX Spectrum+ keyboards, I get the wrong action unless I press the key squarely.

Would there be a mechanical way to detect when a hit is wrong? so that a tad of energy is released to perform the keystroke again. I don't know, a coil spring that only stores an releases energy at a certain angle. Maybe a magnet kind of thing, I don't say they build expensive magnetic keyboards, just something to aid a square press.

[hikoki]

Hall effect switches seem to be cheaper nowadays
https://drop.com/buy/xmit-hall-effect-m ... d#overview
who knows if the chinese manufacturer would be interested to support the Next batch to advertise this type of switch.

[toot_toot]

Honestly, with the updates from the past 9 months it feels like I’ve backed a new keyboard than a new Spectrum.

Maybe they should rename it the ZX Spectrum Text.

very good, sir!

I went through some of the previous updates and highlighted some of the keyboard specific updates. These ones are from two separate updates in October 2018

The most important feedback here is that the key format feels incredible good -- in fact, even the keyboard manufacturer, a specialist in keyboards with years of experience and dozens of models under their belt -- praised how good the Next keys feel to the touch, and how accurate the keyboard becomes with the key shape compared to a typical, modern keyboard.

Enter and Space, now on a sexy angle

They are looking rather nice already.

And this one

We’re happy to announce the membrane was produced as planned, and… It is performing as expected, within the 45gr-55gr of pressure required to result in a responsive and elegant keyboard for the Spectrum Next. What an improvement from the dreaded +200gr imposed by the third layer a few weeks ago!

(I made a mistake in my earlier post, they're going for a two membrane design instead of the three membrane in the original Spectrum)

That membrane update was from July 2018 - nearly 12 months ago and it looks like we're not any further ahead, it's taken 10 months to identify that the membrane design doesn't actually work, on a project that's now 15 months behind schedule.

Looking at the original Kickstarter Campaign page

Rick also took great care to create a keyboard that’s more responsive and features higher bandwidth input than the original, using a butterfly mechanism to power a tactile response to any fingertip touching its keys. No more stuck keys while you type!

That one line from the Kickstarter Campaign appears to have been the biggest part of the delay. Yet other features that were touted at the start have been dropped or quietly forgotten - ULAPlus, 14MHz boost mode, SID chip support, Rex Next, the new Dizzy game, Nodes of Yesod. The team clearly have made a decision to drop some features, yet have stuck doggedly to the keyboard design.

Lets go back to June 2018

With the Battle For The Case pretty much won (famous last words), we move onto the final challenge in production: the three-layered keyboard matrix. In order to keep the keyboard's and Next full compatibility with the original Speccy, the keyboard matrix needs to be composed of three layers like the Spectrum Plus and 128 in order to support composite keys such as BREAK, DELETE and the ARROWS. As a result, the amount of pressure required for registering a keypress is too high -- around 200g instead of the ideal range of 45-55g to get it as responsive as Rick Dickinson envisioned it.

But, why is it we really need a modern "feel" keyboard on the Spectrum Next?I suppose it's great if you're going to be typing a lot, but is the Next really going to be used for that? Even text adventures are going to be limited with the amount of text you're typing in! If you're developing anything for the next, surely you're going to be using a PC to develop? Why is it dreaded to have +200gr which I presume is the same as the Spectrum+ or 128k Toastrack? Yes, the original Spectrum keyboard wasn't ideal, but at least it worked and there's plenty of after market membranes available that would have done the job just fine.

Now the project is hinged on the keyboard manufacturer testing out 3 membrane designs, the team are not even doing the testing now to save time, which might reduce risk in hitting the promised delivery date of Q2, but significantly increases risk to reliability and functionality. If none of those 3 designs work, then looking back at the update in June 2018:

In order to solve this problem, the keyboard experts are trying a myriad of solutions:

Increasing the hole size in the middle layer
Adding extra material on the activation point on the membrane
Using thinner PET layer
Changing the rubber dome to another type
Increasing the rubber dome size
And lastly, abandoning the middle layer and breaking each activation point from a circle to 2 semi circles, forming two contact points

Does that mean that no other option worked apart from the two membrane option... which now doesn't work. But, why has it taken nearly 12 months to identify that it doesn't work? The project was already delayed by 6 months when that decision was made.

Someone pointed out on Kickstarter that since the board only option was launched, there seemed to be a real lack of drive in getting the cased Next out on time. Unfortunately I have to agree with that.

[beanz]

14MHz boost mode, Rex Next, the new Dizzy game, Nodes of Yesod.

Those haven't been dropped. The 14mhz is fully functional and has been, you can choose 3.5 / 7 / 14. I think you mean 28mhz was dropped.

The others are stretch goals and from what I understand are still in development. There have been updates on Rex Next progress. The other two I don't think I've seen updates on but that doesn't mean they've been dropped.

The games are also being developed by 3rd party contributors, not the next team so progress on those..or lack thereof doesn't have any effect on the progress of the Next itself.

[Alcoholics Anonymous]

That one line from the Kickstarter Campaign appears to have been the biggest part of the delay. Yet other features that were touted at the start have been dropped or quietly forgotten - ULAPlus, 14MHz boost mode, SID chip support, Rex Next, the new Dizzy game, Nodes of Yesod. The team clearly have made a decision to drop some features, yet have stuck doggedly to the keyboard design.

????

ULAplus was replaced with ULANext because of disagreements that I am not privy to. ULANext fits better with how the palette is handled in the rest of the Next's display layers. I would not choose to use ULAplus except for compatibility.

14MHz is there - where did you hear it isn't? 14MHz was never in the original kickstarter - only 7MHz was. This was a bonus that came later.

SID was never promised. It was experimented with and a demo shown. People cried it was C64, a prominent AY musician gave up his pledge over its possible inclusion, the prospect of not being allowed to call it a SID was raised. Par for the course in the Spectrum scene.

Rex Next, the new dizzy game, the nodes of yesod are still being developed. In the meantime there are at least 30 other games being made.

But, why is it we really need a modern "feel" keyboard on the Spectrum Next?I suppose it's great if you're going to be typing a lot, but is the Next really going to be used for that? Even text adventures are going to be limited with the amount of text you're typing in! If you're developing anything for the next, surely you're going to be using a PC to develop?

This is 2019. People use keyboards in their daily lives and have expectations for them, especially since they are the primary interface to the machine. The quality of the keyboard can impact on the perceived quality of the whole.

Will the keyboard be used for development? Maybe since there is an optional pi attached that can allow cross dev tools to be used on the machine. I know there are those who want to try it.

The keyboard itself seems to have turned out well. It is the last step - the electrical contact on composite keys that needs to be made satisfactory.

Someone pointed out on Kickstarter that since the board only option was launched, there seemed to be a real lack of drive in getting the cased Next out on time. Unfortunately I have to agree with that.

Come on now.

[Pegaz]

SID was never promised. It was experimented with and a demo shown. People cried it was C64, a prominent AY musician gave up his pledge over its possible inclusion, the prospect of not being allowed to call it a SID was raised.

You are kidding?
Full SID support, can only be a great bonus feature and cant hurt anyone.
Prominent immaturity and stupidity, I would say...

[Alcoholics Anonymous]

You are kidding?
Full SID support, can only be a great bonus feature and cant hurt anyone.
Prominent immaturity and stupidity, I would say...

Nostalgia and passion is a weird & personal thing.

[beanz]

Remember this is supposed to be open source when everythings done and dusted...meaning people can write their own cores. If you want sid and other features I'm sure at some point cores will be released for it.

[toot_toot]

That one line from the Kickstarter Campaign appears to have been the biggest part of the delay. Yet other features that were touted at the start have been dropped or quietly forgotten - ULAPlus, 14MHz boost mode, SID chip support, Rex Next, the new Dizzy game, Nodes of Yesod. The team clearly have made a decision to drop some features, yet have stuck doggedly to the keyboard design.

????

ULAplus was replaced with ULANext because of disagreements that I am not privy to. ULANext fits better with how the palette is handled in the rest of the Next's display layers. I would not choose to use ULAplus except for compatibility.


14MHz is there - where did you hear it isn't? 14MHz was never in the original kickstarter - only 7MHz was. This was a bonus that came later.

SID was never promised. It was experimented with and a demo shown. People cried it was C64, a prominent AY musician gave up his pledge over its possible inclusion, the prospect of not being allowed to call it a SID was raised. Par for the course in the Spectrum scene.

Rex Next, the new dizzy game, the nodes of yesod are still being developed. In the meantime there are at least 30 other games being made.

This is 2019. People use keyboards in their daily lives and have expectations for them, especially since they are the primary interface to the machine. The quality of the keyboard can impact on the perceived quality of the whole.

Personally, I think ULANext is not the same as ULAPlus as it's just essentially a completely new Video Mode for the Next making Next only games look better, more unique and ultimately less like a Spectrum. While I understand ULAPlus isn't to everyone's tastes, at least the games still look like Spectrum games, albeit slightly more enhanced graphically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlP76nWAtDg

Personally again, I would have preferred the ULAPlus, but if it's been dropped then that's fine.

Yes, 14MHz is still in there - sorry I forgot it was 28 MHz that was dropped. However 28MHz boost was announced as an official update in June 2017 here: https://www.specnext.com/new-turbo-modes-14-and-28mhz/

(with a retracted update from January 2018 saying 28MHz wouldn't be available).

SID might have been one of those features that was hinted at, but the FM sound was definitely listed in the Campaign (in fact it's still there), but that too seems to have been quietly dropped.

There have been no updates on the status of Rex Next, Dizzy or Nodes of Yesod in months - all three of those games were promised as part of Stretch goals (which were met)



But my point is that many features were promised but have been dropped. I'm OK with that as they've made the decision that it would either take up too much time or resources to implement them.

But what they haven't dropped is the Modern Feel Keyboard and while that's is nice to have, let's be honest it's caused significant headaches and delays. They've doggedly stuck with the keyboard design, as with my original post making the recent Next updates feel like I've backed a keyboard, not a new Spectrum.

Has the old 35+ year old keyboard design of the original Spectrum stopped people playing them? No! I still play my original Spectrum - in fact you could say the keyboard feel adds a bit of genuine experience!

[toot_toot]

Remember this is supposed to be open source when everythings done and dusted...meaning people can write their own cores. If you want sid and other features I'm sure at some point cores will be released for it.

Sorry to be "moaning" again, but yes you're right. This was an Open Source project, the Campaign stated

Most importantly, once launched, the Spectrum Next will be fully open source, including its firmware and schematics, meaning the community will be able to take it further into the future by improving both its software and hardware!

At the time people were excited at the thought of the same board design being used for other projects, like a Commodore 64 Next, MSX Next etc, after all the FPGA is reportedly capable of handling most 8-bit computers (I believe 16-bit computers were a bit too demanding).

The board only version of the Next was released in November 2017, but reportedly the team haven't released the source code or schematics in fear of clones being made before the cased Next is released. That's fine, but now that they're running 18 months behind schedule, that's 18 months lost for other teams using the same, open source, design for other machines or even improvements by the community to the Next itself.

But what worries me is that the team are now talking about a second Kickstarter campaign once the cased Nexts are released, does that mean Open Source will also be quietly dropped as any clones could impact the success of the second Kickstarter campaign?

[beanz]

Yes I was wondering myself about the Open Source situation now they have pretty much announced another run of not only the cased next but the board only option too.

I can see it being a bit of "shoot yourself in the foot" to release the docs and then try to sell more of them. Still, I doubt anyone has the resources and/or inclination to create the case...the board only though should be pretty much something anyone could easily replicate.

[Alcoholics Anonymous]

Personally, I think ULANext is not the same as ULAPlus as it's just essentially a completely new Video Mode for the Next making Next only games look better, more unique and ultimately less like a Spectrum.

I think you have a misunderstanding of what ULAnext is - it serves the exact same purpose as ULAPlus. Both change the palette of the existing spectrum colours but do nothing to the colour resolution. You can colour existing games using ULAnext just like you can with ULAplus.

There are two things you can do in the next.

One is you can use the spectrum like normal and you can change the palette entries for ink, bright ink, paper, bright paper to different colours (each colour is 9-bit). So you could change ink 2 (red) to something else, eg, brown. Then all red ink pixels will be brown. Bright red ink is different - you could change that independently to orange, eg. This is straight up colour substitution.

ULAnext is a step further. It changes the meaning of an attribute byte by letting you specify how many of the rightmost bits in the attribute byte will be considered the ink colour. The rest are taken as the paper colour. ULAplus does the same thing but the rightmost 3 bits are always ink and the next 3 bits are always paper. This would be equivalent to a ULAnext format byte of 0x07. Where they depart is ULAplus uses the bright and flash bits to select different palette sets whereas ULAnext only uses the flash and paper bits to extend the paper colour selection (or ink selection if the format byte has more bits set).

Yes, 14MHz is still in there - sorry I forgot it was 28 MHz that was dropped. However 28MHz boost was announced as an official update in June 2017 here: https://www.specnext.com/new-turbo-modes-14-and-28mhz/
(with a retracted update from January 2018 saying 28MHz wouldn't be available).

It crashes the machine. It's not really useful if it's going to do that

Everyone is committed to providing the best machine possible but there's also an eye on what was promised in the kickstarter as that is what people pledged money for. In the kickstarter, 7MHz is what was promised so getting 14MHz is icing.

FM sound was definitely listed in the Campaign (in fact it's still there), but that too seems to have been quietly dropped.

Yes FM has been dropped because it takes up too much space. You'd have to choose other things to remove to make space for it. The SID was being considered as the FM option as was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJLFV96Tt7c

Another option being considered is enhancing the AY. But what can be done depends on priorities and available fpga space. The core is not done yet - it's still being developed.

There have been no updates on the status of Rex Next, Dizzy or Nodes of Yesod in months - all three of those games were promised as part of Stretch goals (which were met)

The oliver twins were taking the new dizzy game design + screenshots on tour to many retro events last year. The game will be for both the 128k and the Next with the Next seeing some enhancements (but not too many from what I have seen - multiple AY and clashless sprites are what I noticed. Perhaps they would change the palette too as that's something easy to do). I think the dev is fairly far along.

Rex Next and Nodes are being done by the original programmers. I haven't seen much from them but it is still going. This is dependent on their spare time.

There's a wip video for the 128k version of wonderful dizzy on the specnext games site:
https://www.spectrumnextgames.uk/#Games

But my point is that many features were promised but have been dropped. I'm OK with that as they've made the decision that it would either take up too much time or resources to implement them.

I don't think very much has been dropped.

Processor: Z80 3.5Mhz and 7Mhz modes
Memory: 512Kb RAM (expandable to 1.5Mb internally and 2.5Mb externally)
Video: Hardware sprites, 256 colours mode, Timex 8x1 mode etc.
Video Output: RGB, VGA, HDMI
Storage: SD Card slot, with DivMMC-compatible protocol
Audio: 3x AY-3-8912 audio chips with stereo output + FM sound
Joystick: DB9 compatible with Cursor, Kempston and Interface 2 protocols (selectable)
PS/2 port: Mouse with Kempston mode emulation and an external keyboard
Special: Multiface functionality for memory access, savegames, cheats etc.
Tape support: Mic and Ear ports for tape loading and saving
Expansion: Original external bus expansion port and accelerator expansion port
Accelerator board (optional): GPU / 1Ghz CPU / 512Mb RAM
Network (optional): Wi Fi module
Extras: Real Time Clock (optional), internal speaker (optional)

Everything in this list is in except the FM sound.
The expansion bus and accelerator are still seeing some work.

Stretch goals:

(done) there must be two
(done) box of memories
(active) nodes of yesod
(active) internet toolbox
(active) we play more
(done) holy manual
(done) never forget
(active) make me dizzy
(active) rex next
(done) expand me easy
(done) stronger zx next

Let's not forget that there have been additions way beyond these lists in both the software and hardware. As just one example, neither Sinclair nor Amstrad ever contributed as much to the operating system as what is in NextZXOS.

[Firefox]

...
Memory: 512Kb RAM (expandable to 1.5Mb internally and 2.5Mb externally)
...

Did they really mean 512 kilobits of RAM, or did they perhaps mean 512 kilobytes?

[Seven.FFF]

Kilobytes lol.

So arguably the original goal of 512 Kilobits and the stretch goal of 1 Megabits have been vastly exceeded! Even more so if you consider Kb and Mb to denote 1,000 and 1,000,000 respectively, like nobody sane did ever unless they were referring to a drive storage context.

[Sokurah]

Did they really mean 512 kilobits of RAM, or did they perhaps mean 512 kilobytes?

Please tell me that wasn't a serious question?

[Firefox]

Please tell me that wasn't a serious question?

Yes...?

Oh well, I'm off to drink 500Ml of beer!

[toot_toot]

I don't think very much has been dropped.

Processor: Z80 3.5Mhz and 7Mhz modes
Memory: 512Kb RAM (expandable to 1.5Mb internally and 2.5Mb externally)
Video: Hardware sprites, 256 colours mode, Timex 8x1 mode etc.
Video Output: RGB, VGA, HDMI
Storage: SD Card slot, with DivMMC-compatible protocol
Audio: 3x AY-3-8912 audio chips with stereo output + FM sound
Joystick: DB9 compatible with Cursor, Kempston and Interface 2 protocols (selectable)
PS/2 port: Mouse with Kempston mode emulation and an external keyboard
Special: Multiface functionality for memory access, savegames, cheats etc.
Tape support: Mic and Ear ports for tape loading and saving
Expansion: Original external bus expansion port and accelerator expansion port
Accelerator board (optional): GPU / 1Ghz CPU / 512Mb RAM
Network (optional): Wi Fi module
Extras: Real Time Clock (optional), internal speaker (optional)

Everything in this list is in except the FM sound.
The expansion bus and accelerator are still seeing some work.

Stretch goals:

(done) there must be two
(done) box of memories
(active) nodes of yesod
(active) internet toolbox
(active) we play more
(done) holy manual
(done) never forget
(active) make me dizzy
(active) rex next
(done) expand me easy
(done) stronger zx next

Well, you could say that technically none of those have been delivered to cased Next backers.... and until they get the keyboard working, there's no sign of when they will be delivered to cased Next backers.

[Seven.FFF]

You could say that, but it was said in reponse to

But my point is that many features were promised but have been dropped. I'm OK with that as they've made the decision that it would either take up too much time or resources to implement them.

not as a statement that everyone has received their machines. Those people who have received their machines so far can attest that those features haven't been dropped.

What you're saying is analogous to "Ford has removed the engine from the 2020 Focus. I know this because the 2020 Focus hasn't been delivered to dealerships yet, so nobody has received an engine until everyone who has preordered receives their car."

[Alcoholics Anonymous]

Yes...?

Oh well, I'm off to drink 500Ml of beer!

lol. I'm with you - I know the importance of using proper units. Having a mega- anything even something that looks as small as an "l", probably means we won't see you until next week.

Most importantly, once launched, the Spectrum Next will be fully open source, including its firmware and schematics, meaning the community will be able to take it further into the future by improving both its software and hardware!

At the time people were excited at the thought of the same board design being used for other projects, like a Commodore 64 Next, MSX Next etc, ............ but now that they're running 18 months behind schedule, that's 18 months lost for other teams using the same, open source, design for other machines or even improvements by the community to the Next itself.

Actually several people who were interested in helping out were given access to the core source. Only two outside the team have contributed anything (myself and Garry Lancaster).

Someone familiar with the uno was given the ucf file which they used to generate a core for the next.

People interested in doing things could have been doing them; the reality is only a few will get around to doing anything. But for sure the core source will not be opened until the kickstarter pledges are completed.

The schematics have been available for a while. I think what surprised everyone is that someone managed to make a portable spectrum next without any help at all:

https://www.dorchester3d.com/printing/b ... t-handheld

Where there's a will there's a way.

The same goes for the software end. There's actually a fairly strong set of development tools available now and emulators that can emulate important aspects of the machine. Information about the hardware and operating system is available.

But what worries me is that the team are now talking about a second Kickstarter campaign once the cased Nexts are released, does that mean Open Source will also be quietly dropped as any clones could impact the success of the second Kickstarter campaign?

I can see it being a bit of "shoot yourself in the foot" to release the docs and then try to sell more of them. Still, I doubt anyone has the resources and/or inclination to create the case...the board only though should be pretty much something anyone could easily replicate.

It will be opened after the first kickstarter. No one will be able to replicate the zx next exactly because of the case as you say. Existing fpga computers will be able to do most things but will probably miss one or more of the wifi, rtc, pi, joysticks, no-delay keyboard.. and I am hopeful there will be some good reasons to have a pi even for non-linux or pi tinkerers. Nothing will stop people from making their own pcbs. Maybe with a board only offer, there won't be much difference in pricing between a 3rd party pcb and an official one, especially if the official one can benefit from volume discounting.

[Pegaz]

Another month passed...
I cant access spectrum next forum, at the moment.
Always gives me some certificate error??

[Seven.FFF]

Certificate expired, and Henrique is travelling away at E3. Will be renewed as soon as he can manage it.

[R-Tape]

I cant access spectrum next forum, at the moment.
Always gives me some certificate error??

I took a risk and went through the cert warning to the site; it's still there and people are posting.

Another month passed...

Hmmm....we are going to get the finished product this year...aren't we?

[emook]

I took a risk and went through the cert warning to the site; it's still there and people are posting.

Another month passed...

Hmmm....we are going to get the finished product this year...aren't we?

Who the f**k knows?

No seriously, we are ALL waiting the news on the flipping keyboard and its a shame that its taken so long to get right as everything is ready to go.

[Bizzley]

According to their Twitter feed:

"Still waiting on news on the keyboard. There are a few different threads happening in parallel. Changes to the hammer size, domes, contact design which requires new tooling. Hoping to have results soon!"

Backers were told a month ago that minor changes were being made to the contact patterns on the membrane to fix the multi-keypress problem, the results of which would be known in a week's time. However it appears from the tweet that things are a lot more serious than that.

Comments on the Kickstarter page are becoming more negative than positive fuelled mainly by the lack of information and updates. What details are available are being fed to backers from other sources such as the Twitter feed. The failure to renew the Certificate for their main website is just another example of the apathy and lack of concern for this project.

[emook]

The failure to renew the Certificate for their main website is just another example of the apathy and lack of concern for this project.

Is one negative way you could look at it, the other way is that the new cert had been renewed but incorrectly applied and the person who can remedy that has been out of the country.

I really don't understand what people expect to happen by moaning continuously, its late and that's it - nothing anyone can do about it, would you prefer a product with either no keyboard or one that doesn't work? I know what I would like as a backer, a working keyboard.

The scale of this project is so small that you just cant demand a team of experts at any company to devote hundreds of hours of engineering time on this. But surely everyone will already know that as they all seem to be experts.