ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

The Speccy's spritely young offspring. Discuss everything from FPGA to ZX
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by R-Tape »

Hehe, probably the first time #MatthewSmith was trending on twitter and it wasn't about Doctor Who!

Whatever happens (and this may not be soon enough for some), the Next really, really, really has to be finished and on people's desks this year.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Vampyre »

It's not finished? I've seen one in action in the flesh via someone who backed it???

EDIT: Oh, is it the full one with the keyboard that's not ready? The one I saw was just the motherboard.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

Some of the comments made by Jim Bagley and Mike Cadwallader in the repost by @toot_toot certainly do seem a little worrying. With the Next having officially been promised for delivery before end Q2 2019 (June 30th) you would expect everyone on board with the project to at least stand by that date, be it eventually right or wrong. Bagley and Cadwallader's repeated remarks that they are as lost about this as the rest of us means that they may not be as closely involved with the initimacies of the project as backers think they are. It also seems from what they're saying that behind the scenes it's pretty much a one-man-band operation with Henrique Olifiers calling all the shots.

Mike Cadwallader's admission that KS Updates look better when there's a "happy ending" may hold true while everything is on schedule but when there's no definite indication that one and a half years past the due delivery date the boxed Next it may still not appear then I think backers deserve more than that. Apart from April's eulogy to Rick Dickinson that's all we've heard from Olifiers since March.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by ZxSpence »

It is indeed worrying, and with the increasing aggression towards anyone who asks a question it's looking very bad indeed.

Hopefully the worries will come.to nothing but when he whose back catalogue turns heads but whose ego bends light deploys himself to attack perceived critics it only makes it worse.

Here's hoping for a.happy ending.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Spud »

I tried it out at the expo and was very impressed. I didn’t back it but wish I had. I will if they do a second run.

Jim B seemed to be a very nice bloke too.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by ZXDunny »

Looks like they're re-doing the keyboard membranes now?

https://twitter.com/warmtoffee/status/1 ... 9604054016
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

ZXDunny wrote: Sun May 12, 2019 11:24 pm Looks like they're re-doing the keyboard membranes now?
It's not just the Right Cursor key that doesn't work reliably, it's quite a few composite key presses that are prone to failure as you can see from the picture and mentioned in the latest Update. They are going to try three different designs for the new contacts and hope that one of them does the job but they won't know if any of them work until they get the results back. That to me sounds more like desperation than having a definite and workable idea of how to fix the problem.

Someone has posted on the KS Comments "Is there a backup plan?" in case these fixes don't work and it's a very good question, what indeed does happen if the Next keyboard just plain won't work reliably whatever they come up with?
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Alcoholics Anonymous »

Bizzley wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 12:06 am It's not just the Right Cursor key that doesn't work reliably, it's quite a few composite key presses that are prone to failure as you can see from the picture and mentioned in the latest Update. They are going to try three different designs for the new contacts and hope that one of them does the job but they won't know if any of them work until they get the results back. That to me sounds more like desperation than having a definite and workable idea of how to fix the problem.
That is exactly what the problem is. It should be made clear that the keyboard is not designed by the next team - it is by a keyboard manufacturer which has plenty of experience building keyboards. They were sure the keyboard would perform well once it was machine assembled rather than hand assembled and they were wrong. Two semi-circle halves as contact means preference for one side or the other in striking leads to one contact being made before the other. If the difference in time is significant this can't be covered up in hardware without affecting the responsiveness of the unshifted key. And that's where it is.

The length of delay is not because there's anything being hidden; it's because the next is a low volume project that has bottom priority for suppliers. They deal with it after higher priority customers are dealt with. Nothing may happen for weeks. Now that they see the machine assembled keyboard does not work as expected, hopefully they have reason to spend some more urgent attention.
Last edited by Alcoholics Anonymous on Mon May 13, 2019 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Alcoholics Anonymous »

zxbruno wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 2:40 am I read somewhere else that the designer of the hardware ignored the concerns of people who pointed out a few flaws and recommended addressing them. Does anyone know if they were addressed? I don't know anything about hardware, so I don't understand the details. But it was something about the danger of having the FPGA directly connected to something, and bad implementation of HDMI.
The hdmi implementation is not "bad". The problem lies in hdmi televisions not fully implementing the hdmi spec. hmdi tvs should be flexible in video timing but in fact some are not and there are still models out there that only support a list of example timings that the hdmi spec supplies. Most devices and broadcasts will be using one of those from the list.

The problem with the spectrum is the video timing is connected to the pal signal which does not line up with one of the hdmi listed examples. You can deal with this mismatch two ways. One way is you can store frames generated by the spectrum side in memory and then generate an hdmi signal from that by interpolating between frames. This is what many 3rd party devices do. The next does not have the fpga memory available to do this. Instead the signal is generated live without delay by modifying the video timing of the machine so that an hdmi signal that works on the majority of tvs tested works. TVs that fully implement recent(ish) hdmi specs should have no trouble; this modified timing will mean even more hdmi tvs are compatible. It's still not 100% but it seems to have large coverage. You may remember the problems reported after the boards were delivered. It was the experimentation during this time that led to the current implementation satisfying most of the problem tvs.

However every chance I get, I remind people who care that you probably want to run the machine on a VGA compatible display. It is only in 50Hz VGA mode that the video timings out of the next will be perfect and will allow timing sensitive demos to display properly. hdmi tvs that support scart can also get vga timing through a scart connector.

The other issue you're mentioning has to do with the expansion bus. Xilinx discontinued 5v tolerant inputs on its fpgas starting with the spartan 6, which is the fpga used in the next. The fpga's interface to the expansion bus is really designed for fpgas with 5v tolerant inputs and really there should be level conversion done on the expansion bus interface instead. Xilinx was switched to from Altera because a good deal was had on their fpgas. I can't say if the Altera part was 5v tolerant but I am guessing it was and no change was made when the Xilinx part was substituted.

What I think is going to happen is a separate thin interface thing that does do level conversion will be recommended to be plugged in for the expansion bus. This is just the way things are - sometimes you have to deal with issues the best way you can. Having said that, legacy devices were based on bipolar ttl which is unable to drive signals higher than what the fpga is tolerant to. This may explain why this method of interfacing has been used on other retro projects for a long time without known ill effects so far.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Pegaz »

Alcoholics Anonymous wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 5:30 am
Bizzley wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 12:06 am It's not just the Right Cursor key that doesn't work reliably, it's quite a few composite key presses that are prone to failure as you can see from the picture and mentioned in the latest Update. They are going to try three different designs for the new contacts and hope that one of them does the job but they won't know if any of them work until they get the results back. That to me sounds more like desperation than having a definite and workable idea of how to fix the problem.
That is exactly what the problem is. It should be made clear that the keyboard is not designed by the next team - it is by a keyboard manufacturer which has plenty of experience building keyboards. They were sure the keyboard would perform well once it was machine assembled rather than hand assembled and they were wrong. Two semi-circle halves as contact means preference for one side or the other in striking leads to one contact being made before the other. If the difference in time is significant this can't be covered up in hardware without affecting the responsiveness of the unshifted key. And that's where it is.

The length of delay is not because there's anything being hidden; it's because the next is a low volume project that has bottom priority for suppliers. They deal with it after higher priority customers are dealt with. Nothing may happen for weeks. Now that they see the machine assembled keyboard does not work as expected, hopefully they have reason to spend some more urgent attention.
Does this mean that Q2 2019 remains as the deadline for delivery?
Who is the manufacturer of these keyboards, anyway?
I guess they have experience in keyboard production and these issues should be solved during testing process, instead of being delayed that much.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

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Alcoholics Anonymous wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 5:57 am The other issue you're mentioning has to do with the expansion bus. Xilinx discontinued 5v tolerant inputs on its fpgas starting with the spartan 6, which is the fpga used in the next. The fpga's interface to the expansion bus is really designed for fpgas with 5v tolerant inputs and really there should be level conversion done on the expansion bus interface instead. Xilinx was switched to from Altera because a good deal was had on their fpgas. I can't say if the Altera part was 5v tolerant but I am guessing it was and no change was made when the Xilinx part was substituted.
Altera and Xilinx haven't really had 5v tolerant io for years, the size of the io cell required being a limiting factor. I last worked for Altera in 2007, and it was a problem for a lot of customers then due to other legacy technology. Just off memory Altera Cyclone parts (the rough equivalent to Xilinx Spartan range) i don't think ever supported higher than 3v3. It's likely Xilinx just bought the business with a discount on the devices and maybe helped with the conversion work.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley »

Pegaz wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 9:06 am Who is the manufacturer of these keyboards, anyway?
I guess they have experience in keyboard production and these issues should be solved during testing process, instead of being delayed that much.
If a company with the experience that has been suggested can't get their prototypes or their machine-manufactured units to work reliably then that points to either a fundamental flaw inherent in the design or they don't know what they're doing. Obviously they do know because that's their business which just leaves the design. It's already been changed for aesthetic reasons according to the last Update (We experimented with the three layers and found the keys too ‘heavy’ to press) but with no indication whether those "heavy" keys did in fact do the job reliably or not.

If all the finger-crossing doesn't work and the latest experiments fail then I hope the back-up plan is that the Next team swallow their pride and go with a previous keyboard that works regardless of how it looks or how 'heavy' a key press is needed. If there has never been a working reliable keyboard at all then we truly are stucked!
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz »

zxbruno wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 2:40 am I read somewhere else that the designer of the hardware ignored the concerns of people who pointed out a few flaws and recommended addressing them. Does anyone know if they were addressed? I don't know anything about hardware, so I don't understand the details. But it was something about the danger of having the FPGA directly connected to something, and bad implementation of HDMI.
Those problems were addressed when they were brought up I believe, addressed in the sense that they said the problem wasn't really there. I've been using the board now for 1 1/2yrs and it's been rock solid.

EDIT: Just read AAs post..note I've always run my board on VGA.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

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Bizzley wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 1:33 pm If all the finger-crossing doesn't work and the latest experiments fail then I hope the back-up plan is that the Next team swallow their pride and go with a previous keyboard that works regardless of how it looks or how 'heavy' a key press is needed. If there has never been a working reliable keyboard at all then we truly are stucked!
The previous keyboard might not work...the problem with the composite keys could have been on that one too...they just didn't get to that point in the testing phase as they'd already rejected it for being too heavy...which of course is bad testing practice.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by 1024MAK »

Regarding TTL logic levels...

Well, at a VCC MIN of 4.75V, 74xxx, 74Sxxx and 74LSxxx types have VOH listed as a 3.4V typical.

Of course, the actual voltage is also determined by what other circuitry is connected to the same outputs. Pull-up resistors or other 74 logic gate inputs can increase the voltage towards VCC.

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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by 1024MAK »

The problem has been and always will be that a purely mechanical membrane keyboard system is never good at making two independent switch contacts at the same time. Even during the days of Sinclair. Far too often on my ZX Spectrum+ keyboards, I get the wrong action unless I press the key squarely.

And although I don’t like the QL keyboard, it is slightly better than the keyboard on the ZX Spectrum+. The QL keyboard only being a normal two layer membrane meaning it is slightly easier to use.

The better solution would have been to do what Amstrad did with the +2A/+2B/+3/+3B and have a normal two layer membrane and perform the additional switching in a gate array (CPLD or FPGA) chip. But it’s too late for that now :(

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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by zxbruno »

1024MAK wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 3:26 pmThe better solution would have been to do what Amstrad did with the +2A/+2B/+3/+3B and have a normal two layer membrane and perform the additional switching in a gate array (CPLD or FPGA) chip
So that's why they feel "right" and work so well. I love Sinclair computers, but always found the Amstrad keyboards better. Never had to replace a keyboard membrane on any of my +2s of +3s. They were always good for coding and gaming and I had, at some point, about a dozen of them. Never had a problem with any of the keys.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Alcoholics Anonymous »

Pegaz wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 9:06 am Does this mean that Q2 2019 remains as the deadline for delivery?
They are still trying to get Q2. It's impossible to give firm deadlines as the project is at the mercy of time allocated by an external supplier. The project is just too small and must live off scraps given it. This keyboard thing should be solvable quickly but will it? The last membrane took 2-3 weeks to make and test not because it's hard but because the supplier was busy. Hopefully priorities have changed a bit now that it is known machine assembly will not solve the problem.

The longer the delay the less likely sms will be able to schedule time to assemble everything before the end of June. On the plus side, a lot of things are already done. The pcbs, eg, were made long ago. But as helpful as sms is, 6 weeks out is starting to look short IMO.

I don't deal with the companies so I can't say for sure what the scheduling deadlines and concerns are as of now.
1024MAK wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 3:26 pm The problem has been and always will be that a purely mechanical membrane keyboard system is never good at making two independent switch contacts at the same time. Even during the days of Sinclair. Far too often on my ZX Spectrum+ keyboards, I get the wrong action unless I press the key squarely.
It's not important to get simultaneous contact it just has to be close enough together in time. The fpga can delay keys to see if a shift arrives within a certain amount of time. As long as this difference in time is not too large, key responsiveness will still be good. But the kind of delays seen with the semi-circle contact was at the crazy end too often to be acceptable (10-20ms).
1024MAK wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 2:56 pm Well, at a VCC MIN of 4.75V, 74xxx, 74Sxxx and 74LSxxx types have VOH listed as a 3.4V typical.
The fpga can tolerate a steady 4V. Resistive pullups will drive it higher, though with current that will not exceed maximum (and I think this means long term degradation of the input rather than short term failure). There are other retro projects getting away without level conversion using fpgas from the same family. Close to home there is the uno which has a 5V ps2 keyboard interface. As far as I know, no one has reported their ps2 keyboard failing.

It's still better not to depend on what-ifs and maybes though.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by toot_toot »

Alcoholics Anonymous wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 5:30 am
Bizzley wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 12:06 am It's not just the Right Cursor key that doesn't work reliably, it's quite a few composite key presses that are prone to failure as you can see from the picture and mentioned in the latest Update. They are going to try three different designs for the new contacts and hope that one of them does the job but they won't know if any of them work until they get the results back. That to me sounds more like desperation than having a definite and workable idea of how to fix the problem.
That is exactly what the problem is. It should be made clear that the keyboard is not designed by the next team - it is by a keyboard manufacturer which has plenty of experience building keyboards. They were sure the keyboard would perform well once it was machine assembled rather than hand assembled and they were wrong. Two semi-circle halves as contact means preference for one side or the other in striking leads to one contact being made before the other. If the difference in time is significant this can't be covered up in hardware without affecting the responsiveness of the unshifted key. And that's where it is.

The length of delay is not because there's anything being hidden; it's because the next is a low volume project that has bottom priority for suppliers. They deal with it after higher priority customers are dealt with. Nothing may happen for weeks. Now that they see the machine assembled keyboard does not work as expected, hopefully they have reason to spend some more urgent attention.
The keyboard was designed by the Next team, specifically Rick Dickinson (and with input from his partner). They’ve taken their design to a keyboard manufacturer and asked them to produce it, although the keyboard manufacturer may have had some input on the design.

I think that the whole membrane issue, and backwards compatibility of the board with the original Spectrum has clouded what, I believe, is the real issue behind this. They’re not trying to just make a Spectrum keyboard (and membrane), they’re trying to make a modern feel keyboard with the technical limitations of connecting it to a near 40 year old computer. That’s resulted in this unique three membrane approach and has, so far, resulted in every membrane design failing. We have to presume the keyboard manufacturer know what they’re doing, after all keyboard design and production isn’t new, it’s a tried and tested method.

But again, the crux of the problem is the dogged approach of having a modern keyboard “feel”. How many of the past updates have been around how “great” the keyboard feels? They even had one update saying the manufacturer stated it was the best keyboard design of 2018. That’s great, but the Next team forgot one thing. To test that it actually works.

As someone pointed out here, there was a post on Kickstarter asking if there was a “Plan b” and unfortunately I don’t think there is going to be one. They seem far too stubborn to give up on the modern keyboard feel, after all this problem could have been fixed months ago with the same two membrane design as the original Spectrum or even Spectrum+. But they started spending too much time on the individual keys, the mechanism behind them.

Honestly, with the updates from the past 9 months it feels like I’ve backed a new keyboard than a new Spectrum.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by djnzx48 »

toot_toot wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 9:20 am Honestly, with the updates from the past 9 months it feels like I’ve backed a new keyboard than a new Spectrum.
Maybe they should rename it the ZX Spectrum Text.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

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1024MAK wrote: Mon May 13, 2019 3:26 pm The problem has been and always will be that a purely mechanical membrane keyboard system is never good at making two independent switch contacts at the same time. Even during the days of Sinclair. Far too often on my ZX Spectrum+ keyboards, I get the wrong action unless I press the key squarely.
Would there be a mechanical way to detect when a hit is wrong? so that a tad of energy is released to perform the keystroke again. I don't know, a coil spring that only stores an releases energy at a certain angle. Maybe a magnet kind of thing, I don't say they build expensive magnetic keyboards, just something to aid a square press.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by hikoki »

Hall effect switches seem to be cheaper nowadays
https://drop.com/buy/xmit-hall-effect-m ... d#overview
who knows if the chinese manufacturer would be interested to support the Next batch to advertise this type of switch.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by toot_toot »

djnzx48 wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 9:33 am
toot_toot wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 9:20 am Honestly, with the updates from the past 9 months it feels like I’ve backed a new keyboard than a new Spectrum.
Maybe they should rename it the ZX Spectrum Text.
:lol: very good, sir!

I went through some of the previous updates and highlighted some of the keyboard specific updates. These ones are from two separate updates in October 2018
The most important feedback here is that the key format feels incredible good -- in fact, even the keyboard manufacturer, a specialist in keyboards with years of experience and dozens of models under their belt -- praised how good the Next keys feel to the touch, and how accurate the keyboard becomes with the key shape compared to a typical, modern keyboard.

Enter and Space, now on a sexy angle
They are looking rather nice already.
And this one
We’re happy to announce the membrane was produced as planned, and… It is performing as expected, within the 45gr-55gr of pressure required to result in a responsive and elegant keyboard for the Spectrum Next. What an improvement from the dreaded +200gr imposed by the third layer a few weeks ago!
(I made a mistake in my earlier post, they're going for a two membrane design instead of the three membrane in the original Spectrum)

That membrane update was from July 2018 - nearly 12 months ago and it looks like we're not any further ahead, it's taken 10 months to identify that the membrane design doesn't actually work, on a project that's now 15 months behind schedule.

Looking at the original Kickstarter Campaign page
Rick also took great care to create a keyboard that’s more responsive and features higher bandwidth input than the original, using a butterfly mechanism to power a tactile response to any fingertip touching its keys. No more stuck keys while you type!
That one line from the Kickstarter Campaign appears to have been the biggest part of the delay. Yet other features that were touted at the start have been dropped or quietly forgotten - ULAPlus, 14MHz boost mode, SID chip support, Rex Next, the new Dizzy game, Nodes of Yesod. The team clearly have made a decision to drop some features, yet have stuck doggedly to the keyboard design.

Lets go back to June 2018
With the Battle For The Case pretty much won (famous last words), we move onto the final challenge in production: the three-layered keyboard matrix. In order to keep the keyboard's and Next full compatibility with the original Speccy, the keyboard matrix needs to be composed of three layers like the Spectrum Plus and 128 in order to support composite keys such as BREAK, DELETE and the ARROWS. As a result, the amount of pressure required for registering a keypress is too high -- around 200g instead of the ideal range of 45-55g to get it as responsive as Rick Dickinson envisioned it.
But, why is it we really need a modern "feel" keyboard on the Spectrum Next?I suppose it's great if you're going to be typing a lot, but is the Next really going to be used for that? Even text adventures are going to be limited with the amount of text you're typing in! If you're developing anything for the next, surely you're going to be using a PC to develop? Why is it dreaded to have +200gr which I presume is the same as the Spectrum+ or 128k Toastrack? Yes, the original Spectrum keyboard wasn't ideal, but at least it worked and there's plenty of after market membranes available that would have done the job just fine.

Now the project is hinged on the keyboard manufacturer testing out 3 membrane designs, the team are not even doing the testing now to save time, which might reduce risk in hitting the promised delivery date of Q2, but significantly increases risk to reliability and functionality. If none of those 3 designs work, then looking back at the update in June 2018:
In order to solve this problem, the keyboard experts are trying a myriad of solutions:

Increasing the hole size in the middle layer
Adding extra material on the activation point on the membrane
Using thinner PET layer
Changing the rubber dome to another type
Increasing the rubber dome size
And lastly, abandoning the middle layer and breaking each activation point from a circle to 2 semi circles, forming two contact points
Does that mean that no other option worked apart from the two membrane option... which now doesn't work. But, why has it taken nearly 12 months to identify that it doesn't work? The project was already delayed by 6 months when that decision was made.

Someone pointed out on Kickstarter that since the board only option was launched, there seemed to be a real lack of drive in getting the cased Next out on time. Unfortunately I have to agree with that.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz »

toot_toot wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 11:49 am 14MHz boost mode, Rex Next, the new Dizzy game, Nodes of Yesod.
Those haven't been dropped. The 14mhz is fully functional and has been, you can choose 3.5 / 7 / 14. I think you mean 28mhz was dropped.

The others are stretch goals and from what I understand are still in development. There have been updates on Rex Next progress. The other two I don't think I've seen updates on but that doesn't mean they've been dropped.

The games are also being developed by 3rd party contributors, not the next team so progress on those..or lack thereof doesn't have any effect on the progress of the Next itself.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

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toot_toot wrote: Tue May 14, 2019 11:49 am That one line from the Kickstarter Campaign appears to have been the biggest part of the delay. Yet other features that were touted at the start have been dropped or quietly forgotten - ULAPlus, 14MHz boost mode, SID chip support, Rex Next, the new Dizzy game, Nodes of Yesod. The team clearly have made a decision to drop some features, yet have stuck doggedly to the keyboard design.
????

ULAplus was replaced with ULANext because of disagreements that I am not privy to. ULANext fits better with how the palette is handled in the rest of the Next's display layers. I would not choose to use ULAplus except for compatibility.

14MHz is there - where did you hear it isn't? 14MHz was never in the original kickstarter - only 7MHz was. This was a bonus that came later.

SID was never promised. It was experimented with and a demo shown. People cried it was C64, a prominent AY musician gave up his pledge over its possible inclusion, the prospect of not being allowed to call it a SID was raised. Par for the course in the Spectrum scene.

Rex Next, the new dizzy game, the nodes of yesod are still being developed. In the meantime there are at least 30 other games being made.
But, why is it we really need a modern "feel" keyboard on the Spectrum Next?I suppose it's great if you're going to be typing a lot, but is the Next really going to be used for that? Even text adventures are going to be limited with the amount of text you're typing in! If you're developing anything for the next, surely you're going to be using a PC to develop?
This is 2019. People use keyboards in their daily lives and have expectations for them, especially since they are the primary interface to the machine. The quality of the keyboard can impact on the perceived quality of the whole.

Will the keyboard be used for development? Maybe since there is an optional pi attached that can allow cross dev tools to be used on the machine. I know there are those who want to try it.

The keyboard itself seems to have turned out well. It is the last step - the electrical contact on composite keys that needs to be made satisfactory.
Someone pointed out on Kickstarter that since the board only option was launched, there seemed to be a real lack of drive in getting the cased Next out on time. Unfortunately I have to agree with that.
Come on now.
Last edited by Alcoholics Anonymous on Tue May 14, 2019 4:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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