ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

For experts to discuss very technical stuff and newbies to ask why the Spectrum they bought off ebay doesn't work.
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1024MAK
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:08 am

@Pegaz - all these schemes are a gamble. You either give an unknown small company your money and hope for the best, or you keep your money in your possession, but take the risk that you may never get your hands on the item that may or may not get made. Of course, if you are not bothered about getting said item, then the choice is clear - keep you money. If you cannot afford to throw the money away, again, keep your money and don’t take the gamble.

There are lots of other ways of gambling, including buying a company or shares in one or more companies (anyone want to buy Maplin? Or Carillion shares? [I had some shares in Carillion as part of a share save plan, because at one time they owned a company that was my employer.]

Or you can place a bet on some event...

Sometimes you don’t even know that your life will be subject to a large gamble. Such as your employer going bust. I feel sorry for all the workers in the above two companies, where they had no say in events. They just got told that sorry, the company has no money and therefore has/will stop trading. Your employment has ended.

Some of these bets have a date (or date and time) when you will know if you have won or lost. But others don’t.

I have no more idea than anyone else if the ZX Spectrum Next cased computers will actually make it into the hands of backers. But the board only backers have received their boards. The updates from this project look to be far more informative and believable than those from the Vega+.

Of course, the delay is very frustrating and annoying. And as time goes on, backers will start to worry that it’s all going wrong. The longer the delay, the worse this worry will get.

Am I hopelessly optimistic? Probably. But I would rather have a positive outlook on life. But that’s just me :mrgreen:

You and other people are perfectly entitled to have different opinions. I don’t have a problem with that.

Mark
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Hernan
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Hernan » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:58 am

I have the board since earlier this year and so far, it's a solid machine. I fully upgraded it (2 MB RAM, RTC, Wi-Fi) and everything is working OK. It lives inside a clear case from Retro Radionics (looks great!).

The only thing that disappointed me is the lack of ULAplus, and only from "political" issues. Also, it's supposedly fully open source, but when the sources were released a couple of months ago... the VHDL code of the FPGA core is mysteriously missing. And the lack of additional cores, that big FPGA it's completly under-utilized.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:35 pm

I think crowd-funding started out with noble intentions but as soon as people realised the lack of accountability involved they saw how they could take advantage of it. I don't mean they planned to take the money and run right from the start (but apparently some did!) but that the whole "you're buying into an idea rather than a product" was seen as an easy get-out when it was coming apparent that they couldn't deliver on what they had promised.

Since there's really nothing new under the sun you only have to look at some of the classic economic Bubbles to see the same signs: people pledging money for something non-tangible, exhortations to "get in quick at the start", profits to be made at a later date (I'm going to buy two and put one on eBay) and of course the slow dawning realization that you've made a fool of yourself. So just as people later on wondered why on earth they had sold their house to buy a single tulip bulb you begin to realize that your plan of inviting your mates around for an all night session of Horace Goes Skiing instead of Call Of Duty on the PS4 might not have been the best of reasons to have clicked on that Button :)

Crowd funding is often compared to betting or investing but at least with those - provided you're not dealing with a Boiler Room scam or a bloke on a street corner who'll do a runner with your cash - then at least you stand some chance of getting a result, good or bad. And some accountability. Crowd funding is like betting on a horse race where the organizer can decide not to supply any horses or even a track for them to race on and then keep your money. Legally.
Last edited by Bizzley on Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:41 pm

Hernan wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:58 am
The only thing that disappointed me is the lack of ULAplus, and only from "political" issues. Also, it's supposedly fully open source, but when the sources were released a couple of months ago... the VHDL code of the FPGA core is mysteriously missing. And the lack of additional cores, that big FPGA it's completly under-utilized.
Do you think it should have been aimed more at the generic retro market rather than as a successor to the Spectrum, a machine that with the appropriate core "can become any of the old machines you used to love as a kid?" How does having a Spectrum-specific keyboard pan out if you want to use another core for a different machine?
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Hernan » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Bizzley wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:41 pm
Do you think it should have been aimed more at the generic retro market rather than as a successor to the Spectrum, a machine that with the appropriate core "can become any of the old machines you used to love as a kid?" How does having a Spectrum-specific keyboard pan out if you want to use another core for a different machine?
It can be both... and the keyboard thing is irrelevant since it has a PS/2 port.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by richl » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:06 pm

Obviously you know I am not someone who ever defended the Vega+ campaign (quite the contrary) but there are some fundamental differences between the two campaigns and they really can't be compared as like for like.

As far as I'm concerned, to even say that they're both behind schedule would be incorrect as this would imply both intended to deliver. One has constantly lied and delivered virtually b*gger all (and will never produce the actual product as promised). The other has delivered hardware that met the announced specs to one set of people and is behind with its obligations to produce a boxed version to another set of people (myself included) due to them seemingly wanting to do the right thing by backers and get the case spot on and not looking like some amateur 3D printed blob.

At least one person in the Vega+ campaign has a history of taking money off people and then not delivering on what they promised. It's basically their M.O. I already knew about them before the campaign was started as they cropped up in the press before. Others involved also don't have good form at delivering on their promises either. I don't know all the people on the Next campaign but the ones I do know have got a good track record of delivering quality products. The detail in the updates (even if they're late) shows a real genuine passion for the project, something that was completely lacking in the Vega+ one once Paul Andrews and Chris Smith left.

I've also backed a lot of Kickstarter campaigns, several of which have fallen behind schedule. One was about 18 months late due to problems with rights issues and the guy involved was pretty rubbish at keeping everyone in the loop so people were understandably getting worried/angry. However, his track record at delivering on other projects was exceptional so I didn't panic and the project was eventually delivered to everyone, albeit a lot later than planned. I'm not a gambler and wouldn't throw money at anything I thought was unlikely to ever see the light of day.

I can understand the "once bitten, twice shy" logic but without wishing to keep on repeating the same thing over and over: the two campaigns are totally different. TOTALLY. One was very amateur and maybe in time will even be proven to have been fraudulent, the other is neither of these things. I wasn't a troll for dismissing the Vega+ as nothing but a crock and I'm not a mug for still having faith in the Next team. I don't blindly believe in ANYTHING but I am pretty good at knowing when I should start to get worried about something and I'm not losing any sleep over the Next campaign at the moment. If we're still having the same conversation 6 months down the line then yeah, maybe I'll change my tune but why panic for the sake of it? ;)
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by beanz » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:21 pm

Pegaz wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:51 am
You right of course, but as you can see, history is repeated.
The very same people, who bitterly defended the Vega+ project until his failure, now do the same thing with Next here, with the same "arguments".
Not even close to being the same...that's laughable.

I have had my next for a year...updates are plentiful, the 3000+ boards are already made, the next is the board, not the fancy case...the case is the hold up....worst case (no pun intended)...you'd get a board..re: the spectrum next.

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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by cha05e90 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:01 pm

Pegaz wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:07 am
I didnt point to you in my previous post... how could you possibly conclude something like this after ten days on sc?
Unless, if you dont reveal to us, what is your original wos nickname...
About the rest... Ralf has made some good points, I dont have anything to add to that...
Sorry, I did not take anything personal at all. And of course there's nothing really wrong with Ralfs post - nevertheless: It doesn't have to be that way. And I'm still convinced that the projects aren't really comparable in many regards. So I'm more with Mark or richl here...

Maybe I had the naive hope that coming from a more or less blood stained community (AMIGA!) into a more calm and reasonable environment in the ZX Spectrum scene...:-) This was before I read deeper and deeper into the past WoS or the Vega+ debacles... :o
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by PeterJ » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:23 pm

The Spectrum community has had it's fair share of disappointments with crowd funding. I'm a backer of the Vega+ and the Next.

As others have said crowdfunding is a risk and you do have to accept that you are not guaranteed anything. It's just the way it works. 99% of the time it works fine. Just sad that the 1% happened to us.

At least the Next team are still doing believable updates which is good. I'm happy to wait, because there is nothing we can do to speed it along. I figure we just have to leave them to get on with it.

I don't understand these people who seem to spend significant periods of their limited time on this earth thinking up new Twitter handles so the can moan about the Vega and add to the thousands of posts on the campaign page. I have an interest in both projects and follow them in a general sense, but there is a time when you need to move on. We all get done over at some point in our lives.

PS. I had Woolworths shares and also lost shed loads during the house price crash.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next Discussion

Post by Bizzley » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:50 pm

PeterJ wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:23 pm
As others have said crowdfunding is a risk and you do have to accept that you are not guaranteed anything. It's just the way it works. 99% of the time it works fine. Just sad that the 1% happened to us.
According to Kickstarter themselves 9% of projects that are funded and have succesfully created a product (my emphasis) fail to supply that product to their backers. "Project backers should expect a failure rate of around 1-in-10 projects, and to receive a refund 13% of the time." - Professor Ethan Mollick (2015). It's not clear what the Kickstarter figures are for projects that fail to produce a product at all in the first place.

Indiegogo don't supply completion figures. You can either assume that it's pretty close to the Kickstarter figures for them as well or, if you're cynical, because they don't insist on a working prototype before starting a project that it's higher.
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