Playing games on original Hardware vs. Emulation

[cmal]

I was reading the "Who still uses original hardware" topic viewforum.php?f=22, and It's pleasing to read that quite a few people still use original hardware. I do not own any of the original hardware so I've been using emulators since the 2000's. Back in the day I had a rubber keyboard 48k Spectrum.
Besides the authenticity and nostalgia of using original Hardware, I've always wondered if there's really a different "feel" to playing games on original hardware vs playing on an emulator. Is original hardware more responsive or do some games feel smoother? I've heard that there can be keypress delays in emulation but I really can't say I've noticed that. Perhaps it's only apparent on less powerful machines, or maybe it's because I haven't used original hardware for so long that I've forgotten what it was really like.

Basically for me, the emulators that I use (ZXBaremulator, Spectaculator & SpecEmu) all behave and feel like the real thing while playing games (except of course for the crispy clear picture on modern displays).
To those who still use original HW, what is your experience? Besides the physical aspect (loading tapes, different keyboard & screen etc), does original HW feel different in any way to emulation when playing games?

[Juan F. Ramirez]

I started using real hardware a year ago after more than 20-25 years, so just imagine the great feeling I had when I did that. But emulation is ok for me, as I can perfectly play and complete some games under emulation.

After reading the other thread, I came to the conclusion real hardware is a better option for people, but the 'laziness' make people use emulation more often (including me).

Besides, we all appreciate hardware much more nowadays than 20 years ago, when we started emulation. This is the reason of so many 'regrets' (people who trashed their speccys, joysticks, games, etc). In my case, I have a similar experience: back in 1996, a guy told me that knew a shop that sold a batch of brand new +2, surely Investrónica wanted to get rid of a stock of unsold and 'useless' computers. That shop sold them at 2,000 pesetas (12 euros!!! - remember: BRAND NEW!!! box, manual, ...).

The guy asked me if I want to buy one (he was going to buy it as well) and I said no. That time I was more interested in converting my games into Z80 files or TAPs, when I still didn't have access to Internet.

Now, you can find a decent second-hand +2 for 80-100 € on Ebay...

[toot_toot]

I have both original hardware and a Next as well as using emulators. A lot of features that were only available in emulators ( fast loading, save snapshots etc) are now available for original hardware via things like the DivMMC. If you’ve got hardware that’s a toast rack model or later, it’s easy to hook them up to modern TVs.

Probably the best feature of emulation is the ability to quickly play a few games, if the system you’re using to emulate is already setup (I often use a DS to play Spectrum games). But without a doubt if you want a true feeling of playing the games, you have to play them on original hardware. I don’t think there’s any benefit from reduced lag, it’s purely a feeling. Seeing and touching the original hardware definitely brings back more nostalgia! The funny thing is that I get almost zero nostalgia from playing the Next. Maybe it’s because the keyboard is similar to systems I never owned (Plus and toast rack) but it just doesn’t feel like playing on a Spectrum. It’s hard to explain!

I really think that Nostalgia is just more than playing on an emulator, it’s all of the senses being triggered -sight, touch, smell even. That’s why I stick some Alphabites and Findus Crispy Pancakes in the oven while playing my Spectrum!

[stupidget]

I tend to fire up a game on an emulator and if I like it then I tend to play it on real h/w. Having a DivMMC on my +2 is the best solution for me as you get the best of both worlds, fast loading on real h/w. I can't wait to get my NEXT as I'll not only have the best of both worlds but also the addition of speeding up games such as Outrun, Driller, Castle Master etc etc

[Hedge1970]

The two games I can compare are Manic Miner and Elite. For me Manic Miner plays better on the real thing, whereas Elite plays better on emulation. Manic Miner just seems more coordinated to the spectrum key press and seems to allow better judgement on when to jump using the real hardware. Elite however overwhelms my real hardware and so the added power of an over clocked hard core VR gaming machine allows the emulator to run it better That said I did complete Elite on the real thing Yay!

I also started MC programming on the real thing but got convinced on here to use my PC and emulators and TBH never looked back, its just so much more convenient than trying to use the original hardware and software. The Original HW is only used for testing. However for BASIC programming I will always use the real thing.

So there you have it for me at least its a 50/50 thing

[Ast A. Moore]

I've always wondered if there's really a different "feel" to playing games on original hardware vs playing on an emulator. Is original hardware more responsive or do some games feel smoother? I've heard that there can be keypress delays in emulation but I really can't say I've noticed that.

The sound usually lags behind quite a bit in emulators. I even wrote a simple program to test it some time back:

Input Lag Test.tap

Quickly tap a key, and observe the square in the middle toggle between black and cyan, accompanied by a short beep. The beep is particularly useful for testing the sound lag in emulators: if you record the audio of both the keypress and the beep via a microphone, you can very easily measure the lag in milliseconds in the resulting audio file. On original hardware, the lag is virtually nonexistent.

As for the overall smoothness, if your PC’s screen refresh is a multiple of 50 Hz, the games run smoothly enough. The problem is, most PCs (laptops in particular) are locked to a multiple of 60 Hz for the vertical refresh rate and that creates jerkiness.

And, of course, nothing beats a CRT in terms of look and feel.

[Morkin]

I've got:

- a 128k toastrack
- a standard 48k rubber key
- a couple of 48k rubber keys housed in Saga keyboards

I thought the 128k would end up as my main and preferred model, but the Saga keyboard is my favourite for games, so I tend to go with that (and most games I play are 48k anyway).

When we were doing the high score comp I played some games both on the hardware and in emulators, and didn't really notice any difference in my scores.

...There's definitely a different feel (it's just not the same playing on my laptop) but I find it hard to describe - perhaps it's just firing off some subconscious nostalgia neurons somewhere..! Given the choice I'd be playing everything on the hardware, but I don't have an easy loading method set up, so I only play games I've got on tape. I prefer playing on a modern telly though, rather than a CRT.

I still play the odd text adventure and I'm pretty much forced to do that 100% on emulation, as snapshots are usually vital.

[akeley]

I've heard that there can be keypress delays in emulation but I really can't say I've noticed that. Perhaps it's only apparent on less powerful machines, or maybe it's because I haven't used original hardware for so long that I've forgotten what it was really like.

Yes, this is the tricky thing about lag. It's not as easily perceptible as visual or audio distortions. And lack of something to compare to is is also a factor. Plus it depends on many things - the type of a monitor/TV you use, what controller - it's not just the base hardware and emulator itself.

I've read about it for years while using emulation, but was always skeptical, since the games are still very much playable after all. But after switching to real HW & MiSTer I must admit that the difference definitely is there. Everything just feels much snappier and instant. It mostly counts in really demanding arcade games, though your brain also adapts and compensates for the lag, so people can play these on emulators with great results too.

[cmal]

Thank you all for responding. These are the kinds of responses I was looking for.

The funny thing is that I get almost zero nostalgia from playing the Next. Maybe it’s because the keyboard is similar to systems I never owned (Plus and toast rack) but it just doesn’t feel like playing on a Spectrum. It’s hard to explain!

I'm curious about the Next and how much it feels like real HW. My hope is that it doesn't feel like playing on a PC emulator. I placed an order for one on the 2nd Kickstarter round so looking forward to that.

I also started MC programming on the real thing but got convinced on here to use my PC and emulators and TBH never looked back, its just so much more convenient than trying to use the original hardware and software. The Original HW is only used for testing. However for BASIC programming I will always use the real thing.

So there you have it for me at least its a 50/50 thing

No doubt about it. I agree emulator/PC combos are the preferred platform for development rather than the original HW.

I've always wondered if there's really a different "feel" to playing games on original hardware vs playing on an emulator. Is original hardware more responsive or do some games feel smoother? I've heard that there can be keypress delays in emulation but I really can't say I've noticed that.

The sound usually lags behind quite a bit in emulators. I even wrote a simple program to test it some time back:

Input Lag Test.tap

Quickly tap a key, and observe the square in the middle toggle between black and cyan, accompanied by a short beep. The beep is particularly useful for testing the sound lag in emulators: if you record the audio of both the keypress and the beep via a microphone, you can very easily measure the lag in milliseconds in the resulting audio file. On original hardware, the lag is virtually nonexistent.

As for the overall smoothness, if your PC’s screen refresh is a multiple of 50 Hz, the games run smoothly enough. The problem is, most PCs (laptops in particular) are locked to a multiple of 60 Hz for the vertical refresh rate and that creates jerkiness.

And, of course, nothing beats a CRT in terms of look and feel.

Thanks for the lag utility Ast! I tested it on 2 PC laptops as well as on my ZXbaremulator setup. Here are the results(I didn't do any formal measurements):
Less powerful HP laptop:
SpecEmu had less of a lag than Spectaculator although the lag on both of them was almost not there

ASUS Gaming laptop: Surprisingly, the Spectaculator lag on this laptop was quite bad and sometimes it would "forget" to beep until you press a key then 2 beeps would happen in succession. I didn't expect this. SpecEmu performed well on this machine.

ZXBaremulator: This one felt the best and I couldn't detect a lag at all. This is the machine I used mostly for the high score comp but I still can't tell the difference when playing a game on it vs a PC emulator. I'll need to revisit that theory after seeing your lag tool results.

When we were doing the high score comp I played some games both on the hardware and in emulators, and didn't really notice any difference in my scores.

...There's definitely a different feel (it's just not the same playing on my laptop) but I find it hard to describe - perhaps it's just firing off some subconscious nostalgia neurons somewhere..! Given the choice I'd be playing everything on the hardware, but I don't have an easy loading method set up, so I only play games I've got on tape. I prefer playing on a modern telly though, rather than a CRT.

I still play the odd text adventure and I'm pretty much forced to do that 100% on emulation, as snapshots are usually vital.

Good to know there is some kind of a different feeling on real machines. I've been tempted to get one for some time but I'm sort of holding off until the Next comes along.
Regarding Toastracks: The first time I encountered this "Toastrack" term is on the SC forum. I gathered that a toastrack is a 128K and I guess it's called that because the keyboard looks like a device that can hold slices of toast. Is my assumption correct?

I can't imagine playing text adventures these days on a real Speccy. It sounds like a chore. I'd have to leave it on for days unless it had a save option and then I'd have to find blank tapes.

I've heard that there can be keypress delays in emulation but I really can't say I've noticed that. Perhaps it's only apparent on less powerful machines, or maybe it's because I haven't used original hardware for so long that I've forgotten what it was really like.

I've read about it for years while using emulation, but was always skeptical, since the games are still very much playable after all. But after switching to real HW & MiSTer I must admit that the difference definitely is there. Everything just feels much snappier and instant. It mostly counts in really demanding arcade games, though your brain also adapts and compensates for the lag, so people can play these on emulators with great results too.

I feel the same. The games still feel very playable on emulators but perhaps our brains do fill in the blanks and compensate.

[MrClump]

I'm curious about the Next and how much it feels like real HW. My hope is that it doesn't feel like playing on a PC emulator. I placed an order for one on the 2nd Kickstarter round so looking forward to that.

For me it's got many of the modern conveniences of using a PC emulator, while still feeling like real hardware because it is, FPGA is not emulation. If you want the full Speccy experience I would suggest putting a Pi in it, so you can load from TZX files for the full cassette loading experience without messing around with tapes.

[cmal]

I'm curious about the Next and how much it feels like real HW. My hope is that it doesn't feel like playing on a PC emulator. I placed an order for one on the 2nd Kickstarter round so looking forward to that.

For me it's got many of the modern conveniences of using a PC emulator, while still feeling like real hardware because it is, FPGA is not emulation. If you want the full Speccy experience I would suggest putting a Pi in it, so you can load from TZX files for the full cassette loading experience without messing around with tapes.

That's good news, thanks. I did order the accelerated model which I believe has the Pi already built in. And yes, I definitely want the ability to load TZX files.

[MrClump]

That's good news, thanks. I did order the accelerated model which I believe has the Pi already built in. And yes, I definitely want the ability to load TZX files.

It does, so loading a tape is as easy as selecting it in the browser, you can then change various options before loading, including temporarily bumping the CPU speed of the Next if you want to load faster.

[Nienn Heskil]

feeling like real hardware because it is, FPGA is not emulation.

Sorry, but no. A Spectrum is just a Spectrum, there's no way for it to be anything else. This thing, you can for instance use it to emulate a *gasp* C64 - it's just a matter of choosing which firmware to use. In other words, exactly like choosing to run a different emulator on a PC. It doesn't even have a real Z80 in it.

I realize this is one of those cancer 'muh 1983 feels' threads, and facts are probably useless here, but the whole thing is highly ironic. That goddamn genius who thought up a question of whether a 128K Spectrum can be likened to a 'Windows PC' (and actually compares the two)? Why, there's your answer: for many people they're absolutely the same. Take a PC, write 'ZX Spectrum' on it, cash in literal millions That's literally how braindead these fetishists are. They don't give a slightest fvck about what's inside, whether it can actually be called a Spectrum etc - only the brand name, and who endorses it. As someone has put it, 'far too many people fall into dementia eagerly and with great glee'.

[MrClump]

feeling like real hardware because it is, FPGA is not emulation.

Sorry, but no. A Spectrum is just a Spectrum, there's no way for it to be anything else. This thing, you can for instance use it to emulate a *gasp* C64 - it's just a matter of choosing which firmware to use. In other words, exactly like choosing to run a different emulator on a PC. It doesn't even have a real Z80 in it.

I realize this is one of those cancer 'muh 1983 feels' threads, and facts are probably useless here, but the whole thing is highly ironic. That goddamn genius who thought up a question of whether a 128K Spectrum can be likened to a 'Windows PC' (and actually compares the two)? Why, there's your answer: for many people they're absolutely the same. Take a PC, write 'ZX Spectrum' on it, cash in literal millions That's literally how braindead these fetishists are. They don't give a slightest fvck about what's inside, whether it can actually be called a Spectrum etc - only the brand name, and who endorses it. As someone has put it, 'far too many people fall into dementia eagerly and with great glee'.

Wow.

[Lethargeek]

Keypress lag isn't a problem usually as it is less than one frame long if done right and that's much shorter than several frames of typical keypress duration. We humans just can't do it faster anyway with our slow hands (even the eye blinking is about 1/10s). But the sound lag is usually a few frames long and that's perceptible. And inconsistent frame rate is even worse.

And yeah, FPGA is not an emulation if it works real time just as the original machine. Well, no more than the original ULA was an "emulation of assorted logic parts". It might be even closer to the real thing than many past Spectrum clones built with "real hardware components".

[ZXDunny]

If you're gonna shun emulation in favour of real hardware then what you're really wanting is authenticity, that only real hardware can bring.

The problem is that most people then mod their Speccies to add faster storage or crisper, more compatible display outputs. In which case it's just not authentic anymore and you might as well emulate. If you're wanting the real feel, you need to load from real tapes or +3 disks and output via RF to a real CRT.

[akeley]

FPGA is not emulation, but it isn't real hardware either. I mean, obviously it isn't, but even the logic implementation is often just an approximation. I used to think it's 1:1, or at least it's aiming for that, but it's not true - just a myth.

That said, it can offer zero lag experience, so it's a big advantage over emulation.

If you're gonna shun emulation in favour of real hardware then what you're really wanting is authenticity, that only real hardware can bring.

The problem is that most people then mod their Speccies to add faster storage or crisper, more compatible display outputs. In which case it's just not authentic anymore and you might as well emulate. If you're wanting the real feel, you need to load from real tapes or +3 disks and output via RF to a real CRT.

That's an entirely subjective matter. There's a world of difference between 48k+ with a DIV and an emulator, and it's up to individual users to decide what degree of "authenticity" works for them.

[ZXDunny]

That's an entirely subjective matter. There's a world of difference between 48k+ with a DIV and an emulator, and it's up to individual users to decide what degree of "authenticity" works for them.

It's an entirely objective matter. It's either authentic or it's not. If you're going to add mass-storage solutions that weren't around in the 80s and wire up your display circuitry for crisp output to AMOLED displays then you might as well fire up Spectaculator, shave off your beard and hand in your vinyl collection.

[akeley]

It's an entirely objective matter. It's either authentic or it's not. If you're going to add mass-storage solutions that weren't around in the 80s and wire up your display circuitry for crisp output to AMOLED displays then you might as well fire up Spectaculator, shave off your beard and hand in your vinyl collection.

Well, whaddyaknow, TIL not only that the pile of old micros on my desk is completely inauthentic but also that I'm some sort of old hipster

But overall it's good to know that the concept of Extreme Gatekeeping is alive & well in the retro world too.

[Ralf]

"Original hardware vs emulation" is one of this dangerous subjects (like copyrights or Spectrum vs C64) which make people often get into
stupid, bitter fights.

I use emulation over 90% of time, don't have any problems with that. It's less authentic but certainly much more comfortable.
But there are quite a lot of guys showing some strong hate to emulation and emulators. "It's like a sex with a rubber doll" and so on , you
can hear similar comments from them.

The funny thing is that they often spend more time repairing some broken machines, soldering, buying or assembling some interfaces
then actually using their Spectrums.

And another funny thing is that they usually have no problems with FPGA clones, interfaces like Divide or LCD tvs although these things certainly didn't exist in the 80s and are as "unauthenic" as emulators.

I believe at the very general level retro fans may be divided into "hardware guys" and "software guys". Hardware guys will have fun only
with real hardware but as I said they may spend more time soldering then using their machines. Software guys may enjoy using authentic
hardware but usually won't have problems with emulators.

I'm a software guy. If I could ask hardware guys for something - don't say to me that you are "better" because you are
authentic and I'm fake. No, you aren't better. Just enjoying your hobby in a different way than me

[hikoki]

The new ward is full of hard wardos!

[MrClump]

In my book, emulation is perfectly valid, FPGA is perfectly valid and real hardware is perfectly valid. If one or all of those does what you want then great, we don't all want the same thing and just because what I want may be different to someone else it does not make my approach wrong. Just different.

Personally, I absolutely love tinkering with the original hardware, but for actual use, it can get to be a bit of a PITA, but I enjoy the feel (I mean physical tactile experience) of using something that approximates original hardware, so FPGA is good for that. But then will also dip into a bit of emulation if sitting in the armchair in the lounge and the missus is watching something boring on TV.

I advocate the Next not because I think FPGA is the best or only approach, but because I think it is a bloody fantastic bit of kit.

[PaulJ]

I have had a few experiences where emulation doesn't get the random element right for a game, and thus the game is the same each time. For example (but not the game) in Jetpac the fuel would drop at the same point on the first play.

This could be because of the use of Z80 files where any random goodness has been done already, or to get a random number, timings are done on the tape load etc..

In these cases (wish I could recall the games!) using the real hardware/tape loading produces the result envisaged by the author rather than a predefined number already set in memory of the person who loaded it and converted, or based on a fixed load time that remains the same due to emulation.

[Lethargeek]

I have had a few experiences where emulation doesn't get the random element right for a game, and thus the game is the same each time. For example (but not the game) in Jetpac the fuel would drop at the same point on the first play.

This could be because of the use of Z80 files where any random goodness has been done already, or to get a random number, timings are done on the tape load etc..

In these cases (wish I could recall the games!) using the real hardware/tape loading produces the result envisaged by the author rather than a predefined number already set in memory of the person who loaded it and converted, or based on a fixed load time that remains the same due to emulation.

but then some very high quality real hardware might produce the same result each time as the emulation in this case...

[PaulJ]

[/quote]
but then some very high quality real hardware might produce the same result each time as the emulation in this case...
[/quote]

Mmm. Would have to take into account numerous tap motors and variance in speed, numerous battery outputs (if battery operated), numerous charge states and cable quality, but in theory you are right.