ZX Spectrum Next

For experts to discuss very technical stuff and newbies to ask why the Spectrum they bought off ebay doesn't work.
llewelyn
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by llewelyn »

beanz wrote: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:02 pm Well it's going to be open source so nothing stopping others from making boards...ZX renew are already making cases.
Thanks for that bit of useful info beanz! I didn't know of ZXRenew's existence. Great, now maybe I can finally get my own Next once I can get a board too. I really wanted the whole deal with Rich Dickinsons case design and the manual and the fully expanded version with Wi-Fi and Pi acceleration but at least this is a start.
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beanz
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by beanz »

FYI, if you are relatively handy with a soldering iron it's easy to add the clock, internal speaker and pi board (as well as pop in the extra memory). I've got my board fully populated for about ummm $15-$20, the cost of the components and 30 mins soldering, (which I have basic skill at).

I expect when the full NEXTs ship you'll see a bunch of "boards only" posted on ebay for those that pledged for both the board and the cased units...tip, check EBAY USA as I've seen a couple of boards sell on there for $110 (auction) and $150 (buy it now)...much cheaper than boards go for on UK/European ebay.

Myself I'll be keeping my board and using that primarily with the cased next sitting pretty in it's box.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Nomad »

Bit of a worrying update, would appear that they lost the case/plastic manafacturing & tooling people.
You are likely to have noticed the conspicuous absence of the promised mould pictures of the Next case that would have come in ‘a couple of weeks’ since our last update, allowing you to follow the progress of the plastics production. Well, there has been none -- our plastics manufacturer dropped the project last week (Mar 26th) without much of an explanation (our contact there is also absent from the company), and we’re in talks with a couple new partners with the help of the nice folks at SMS.

Myself, Phil (Rick Dickinson’s partner) and the SMS team are going through diligence since last week to find a replacement plastics company that can hit the ground running, picking up from where we’ve been left. If all goes well, we’ll have someone working on the case soon after the Easter holidays. Failing that, we’ll turn East towards some friends who can speed up things and offset some of the delay we’re caused so far.

We’re deeply sorry for letting the backers down with all this delay on the plastics. We’re as eager as you to put our hands on the cased Next, and it’s very disappointing we’re not there yet. Regardless of the cause for the delay, it’s our (particularly mine) responsibility to get things on time, and we’ve been failing on the plastics. We’re turning the ship around to bring it back on course -- and from this update onwards, we’ll keep you posted every two weeks with whatever news we have on the case production. We’ll get this done, and done well, fear not.
That is a huge issue, as the majority of funds on these types of projects is going to be down to tooling and case design/manufacturing ..
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by RMartins »

Nomad wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:14 pm Bit of a worrying update, would appear that they lost the case/plastic manafacturing & tooling people.

...

That is a huge issue, as the majority of funds on these types of projects is going to be down to tooling and case design/manufacturing ..
Not really, if no funds have been transferred to the guys, that just disappeared.
Better to know now, than after funds had been transferred.

It's uncommon for hardware manufacturers to not be worthy of trust.
They are usually reliable in terms of ensuring the work is done, since without trust clients will go elsewhere.
But they are usually not as good for timings though, specially if you have a small batch compared with other work loads they might have.

The clear thing to notice here, is the transparency, of the Next team, that tells us what is happening, even if it looks a really bad problem.

Hopefully, it will just imply a minor delay.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Alessandro »

I also went for the accelerated Next and I couldn't help feeling a bit worried when I knew of the mishap with the case manufacturer. Anyway, I do hope they find another provider for the plastics soon - and more trustworthy this time. Cased Nexts should have been shipped towards the end of January initially if I remember correctly, and although delays are to be expected in such cases, we are well into April now... At least they are not hiding the problems behind a continuous stream of deadlines, it seems.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Seven.FFF »

No funds were transferred, fortunately.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Nomad »

In that case they really dodged a bullet. Good news for the backers.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by beanz »

If they do end up getting the plastics from China that's 6-8weeks just in shipping...unless they fly them which I doubt due to the cost of doing that...Late July/Aug delivery of finished units perhaps.
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RMartins
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by RMartins »

As far as I remember the goal was to build everything in the UK.
But plans might change.

There are quite a few plastic injection molding companies in the UK.
.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by MonkZy »

Taking the manufacturing of the plastics to China is not necessarily cheaper, unless the Next team is planning to produce way more than the pledged 4000 units. For a kickstarter project all the extra travel expenses dealing with a factory in China would eat into the pool of money, I am assuming at least one member of the team would personally oversee the production run. If you could email the supplier an .stl of the case design and wait for the 4000 units to arrive in the post, it would be great. The Next looks a bit beyond that, they were talking of using a complex key design with 'rockers' as opposed to the 'poke a membrane through a hole' of the original. You would need at least one guy to be on site to check everything works right, unless they have found a Chinese firm that can do the entire job i.e assemble the final product and remove any manufacturing glitches pre-run at a fixed fee.

If the Next team say they are going to China you can also assume they wish to make more than the original 4000 units. As a person who missed the kickstarter this would be most excellent. The machine will be able to recreate any 80's machine, it will have a decent keyboard and all the other ancillaries (Sd card, joystick etc.). It's like a super Myst. With the PI attached the machine can utilise the now rapidly growing baremetal emulations. It is a beast.

I remain hopeful.

[edit to avoid double post] The new features added to the Next, extra graphic modes, extra audio channels, copper/sprite support is why I am attracted to the machine. Plus it is the best hardware replacement for original spectrum computers (for this I do not need a cased version). I am but one person who would buy into the project if I could. There are many uses for this great piece of kit.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Nomad »

The reason I didn't go for it was I looked at the cost of the fully featured zx next. Then I figured a emulator that got directly booted by a single board computer paired with a mechanical keyboard with custom keycaps would be cheaper. Ok You won't have a cool looking case but beyond that what really do you get?

Not knocking those who went for the kickstarter but it was an ambitious project and given that 9% failure rate, plus you are paying much more for an off the shelf solution available right now that would be functionally equivalent with better hardware (mechanical keyboard).

Like a custom mechanical keyboard, with whatever key design you want is $140 shipped. Then whatever you want on the single board computer.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Seven.FFF »

Yeah, I balked at the cost of the full cased board. The board-only was a no-brainer for me. Much, much cheaper, early access, and has all the features for development.

I've been gradually adding the board extras, ordering them cheap from China. The official case is really not necessary, as I'm already using a PS/2 keyboard for other retro systems. I just wired the keyboard, mouse and VGA up to a cheap KVM.

Not that the full Next isn't worthwhile; it is, and it's great. Just not worth it to me, compared with the $100 board, based on what I want to do with it.

The emulators are currently in a state where you can develop with them and ignore the differences, but you wouldn't want to use them in place of the real hardware as an end user yet. I'm happy though - I just got ZEsarUX and CSpect working with my WIP game for the first time ever yesterday :)
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Hernan »

Just found this post.

I have a Next board, it's great but I think a little expensive to what it offers. Bought a RetroRadionics case to house it. I also added the RTC and have a 1 meg of memory on the way.

Pros:
  • Great quality board
  • HDMI output with sound
  • OS browser with long file names support
  • Works great with most games
Cons:
  • Somewhat bad compatibility, and gets worse using HDMI due to timings. A lot ot things don't work or have some glitches (Nirvana engine games, demos with strict timings). ZX-Uno is miles ahead in this regard.
  • No ULAplus or "Radastan" mode support
  • No composite video output
  • No alternative cores... the FPGA has a lot of (unused) potential
  • Next-only video modes are very non-speccy... using thems converts it in another machine
  • Some expansions (wifi, RPi accelerator) are currently useless, there is no software using them.
That's my 2 cents :)
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Magnus »

Hernan wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:47 pm Cons:
  • Somewhat bad compatibility, and gets worse using HDMI due to timings. A lot ot things don't work or have some glitches (Nirvana engine games, demos with strict timings). ZX-Uno is miles ahead in this regard.
Can you elaborate on the compatibility issues, and in what way ZX Uno is better? I'm interested because I backed a cased Next and was under the impression that it would be "fully" compatible. I understand that there are issues with HDMI, but what are the other problems?
My ZX Spectrum emulator project: https://softspectrum48.weebly.com.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Pegaz »

I dont have Next to compare, but according to this tests, both Next and Uno are not particularly precise.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=752&start=30#p11027

So, I would also like to see in which cases Uno is better in terms of compatibility...
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Magnus »

Thanks for the link. I browsed that thread, but missed that particular discussion. Anyway, I suppose I was a bit naive, but the Next kickstarter could have been more clear on the subject of compatibility. I realise that it probably is no big deal for the vast majority of users.
My ZX Spectrum emulator project: https://softspectrum48.weebly.com.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Hernan »

Magnus wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:55 pm Can you elaborate on the compatibility issues, and in what way ZX Uno is better? I'm interested because I backed a cased Next and was under the impression that it would be "fully" compatible. I understand that there are issues with HDMI, but what are the other problems?
Hi Magnus (and Pegaz)!

From my tests:

* Pentagon demos are almost unplayable using Next via HDMI and somewhat poor using VGA. ZX-Uno with the latest core (EXP26) is waaaay better.
* Using HDMI Nirvana games don't show multicolor, some games run a little bit faster (yesterday I played Robocop and the speech and music didn't sound right)

Looks like HDMI output uses some odd timing which lowers compatibility a lot.

Also, some things that I didn't mention:

* In Uno's latest core you could play PZX tapes.
* NextOS browser doesn't support .TRD files, you have to boot in pure 128K mode and load them using ESXDOS.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Seven.FFF »

Nirvana and a lot of demos work great in 128K or 48K mode. There are a couple of glitches to be worked out still but it is pretty much there.

The Next mode is intended for new features and new games rather than 100% compatibility.

HDMI mode is really a bunch of timing compromises for walk-in punters who want to use it as a console on their big screen TVs. Stick to exactly 50Hz over VGA or RGB and you’ll be fine.

The 128K mode is a much fairer comparison to the Uno than the Next mode is.
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beanz
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by beanz »

The next is far from finished, even when the cased units ship work will continue on it. Comparing it to something that's been out for near a couple of years now is a bit silly.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Magnus »

beanz wrote: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:53 am The next is far from finished, even when the cased units ship work will continue on it. Comparing it to something that's been out for near a couple of years now is a bit silly.
I find the comparison interesting, at least while I'm waiting for my Next ;). Anyway, you have a good point concerning the maturity of the Next, but when it comes to 48K/128K compatibility I would expect the Next to perform well, even if it is a new product. Time will tell...
My ZX Spectrum emulator project: https://softspectrum48.weebly.com.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by beanz »

I haven't seen any issues so far with 48/128k compatibility on my board. It's run everything I've thrown at it so far, I don't use HDMI out though, I use VGA.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Seven.FFF »

It's only really small things. Try running shock demo pt 2.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Pegaz »

What is the purpose of having an HDMI output if it creates compatibility problems?
And how this can be solved? New motherboard revision or just core upgrade?
After all, Raspberry Pi with any Spectrum emulator, has HDMI support without any issues...
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Seven.FFF
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Seven.FFF »

HDMI was promised on the Kickstarter so it has (if at all possible) to be provided in some form. This seems to be the least worst possible way to achieve it for the average backer. Henrique mentioned providing an alternate core build that drops VGA and RGB, and simplifies the design to achieve better HDMI timings for demosceners.

The Pis run at GHz speed and have a dedicated SoC. The Next runs internally at 28MHz and this master clock is sped up or slowed down to achieve a compatible video clock.

They’re not even remotely comparable, and in fact there’s a Luddite resistance in the “average backer” userbase towards anything resembling emulation or relying on the Pi accelerator for baseline features. Stupid, but this is how people are.

If you want the simplest cheapest Spectrum emulation over HDMI then you really can’t go wrong with a £3 Pi Zero. But you probably wouldn’t have backed the Next either.
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beanz
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by beanz »

One current on Ebay USA with aftermarket case...get it while it's hot.

Already at $280 with 6 days to go

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283046749482
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