ZX Spectrum Next

For experts to discuss very technical stuff and newbies to ask why the Spectrum they bought off ebay doesn't work.
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Seven.FFF
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Seven.FFF »

No funds were transferred, fortunately.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Nomad »

In that case they really dodged a bullet. Good news for the backers.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by beanz »

If they do end up getting the plastics from China that's 6-8weeks just in shipping...unless they fly them which I doubt due to the cost of doing that...Late July/Aug delivery of finished units perhaps.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by RMartins »

As far as I remember the goal was to build everything in the UK.
But plans might change.

There are quite a few plastic injection molding companies in the UK.
.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by MonkZy »

Taking the manufacturing of the plastics to China is not necessarily cheaper, unless the Next team is planning to produce way more than the pledged 4000 units. For a kickstarter project all the extra travel expenses dealing with a factory in China would eat into the pool of money, I am assuming at least one member of the team would personally oversee the production run. If you could email the supplier an .stl of the case design and wait for the 4000 units to arrive in the post, it would be great. The Next looks a bit beyond that, they were talking of using a complex key design with 'rockers' as opposed to the 'poke a membrane through a hole' of the original. You would need at least one guy to be on site to check everything works right, unless they have found a Chinese firm that can do the entire job i.e assemble the final product and remove any manufacturing glitches pre-run at a fixed fee.

If the Next team say they are going to China you can also assume they wish to make more than the original 4000 units. As a person who missed the kickstarter this would be most excellent. The machine will be able to recreate any 80's machine, it will have a decent keyboard and all the other ancillaries (Sd card, joystick etc.). It's like a super Myst. With the PI attached the machine can utilise the now rapidly growing baremetal emulations. It is a beast.

I remain hopeful.

[edit to avoid double post] The new features added to the Next, extra graphic modes, extra audio channels, copper/sprite support is why I am attracted to the machine. Plus it is the best hardware replacement for original spectrum computers (for this I do not need a cased version). I am but one person who would buy into the project if I could. There are many uses for this great piece of kit.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Nomad »

The reason I didn't go for it was I looked at the cost of the fully featured zx next. Then I figured a emulator that got directly booted by a single board computer paired with a mechanical keyboard with custom keycaps would be cheaper. Ok You won't have a cool looking case but beyond that what really do you get?

Not knocking those who went for the kickstarter but it was an ambitious project and given that 9% failure rate, plus you are paying much more for an off the shelf solution available right now that would be functionally equivalent with better hardware (mechanical keyboard).

Like a custom mechanical keyboard, with whatever key design you want is $140 shipped. Then whatever you want on the single board computer.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Seven.FFF »

Yeah, I balked at the cost of the full cased board. The board-only was a no-brainer for me. Much, much cheaper, early access, and has all the features for development.

I've been gradually adding the board extras, ordering them cheap from China. The official case is really not necessary, as I'm already using a PS/2 keyboard for other retro systems. I just wired the keyboard, mouse and VGA up to a cheap KVM.

Not that the full Next isn't worthwhile; it is, and it's great. Just not worth it to me, compared with the $100 board, based on what I want to do with it.

The emulators are currently in a state where you can develop with them and ignore the differences, but you wouldn't want to use them in place of the real hardware as an end user yet. I'm happy though - I just got ZEsarUX and CSpect working with my WIP game for the first time ever yesterday :)
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Hernan »

Just found this post.

I have a Next board, it's great but I think a little expensive to what it offers. Bought a RetroRadionics case to house it. I also added the RTC and have a 1 meg of memory on the way.

Pros:
  • Great quality board
  • HDMI output with sound
  • OS browser with long file names support
  • Works great with most games
Cons:
  • Somewhat bad compatibility, and gets worse using HDMI due to timings. A lot ot things don't work or have some glitches (Nirvana engine games, demos with strict timings). ZX-Uno is miles ahead in this regard.
  • No ULAplus or "Radastan" mode support
  • No composite video output
  • No alternative cores... the FPGA has a lot of (unused) potential
  • Next-only video modes are very non-speccy... using thems converts it in another machine
  • Some expansions (wifi, RPi accelerator) are currently useless, there is no software using them.
That's my 2 cents :)
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Magnus »

Hernan wrote: Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:47 pm Cons:
  • Somewhat bad compatibility, and gets worse using HDMI due to timings. A lot ot things don't work or have some glitches (Nirvana engine games, demos with strict timings). ZX-Uno is miles ahead in this regard.
Can you elaborate on the compatibility issues, and in what way ZX Uno is better? I'm interested because I backed a cased Next and was under the impression that it would be "fully" compatible. I understand that there are issues with HDMI, but what are the other problems?
My ZX Spectrum emulator project: https://softspectrum48.weebly.com.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Pegaz »

I dont have Next to compare, but according to this tests, both Next and Uno are not particularly precise.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=752&start=30#p11027

So, I would also like to see in which cases Uno is better in terms of compatibility...
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Magnus »

Thanks for the link. I browsed that thread, but missed that particular discussion. Anyway, I suppose I was a bit naive, but the Next kickstarter could have been more clear on the subject of compatibility. I realise that it probably is no big deal for the vast majority of users.
My ZX Spectrum emulator project: https://softspectrum48.weebly.com.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Hernan »

Magnus wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:55 pm Can you elaborate on the compatibility issues, and in what way ZX Uno is better? I'm interested because I backed a cased Next and was under the impression that it would be "fully" compatible. I understand that there are issues with HDMI, but what are the other problems?
Hi Magnus (and Pegaz)!

From my tests:

* Pentagon demos are almost unplayable using Next via HDMI and somewhat poor using VGA. ZX-Uno with the latest core (EXP26) is waaaay better.
* Using HDMI Nirvana games don't show multicolor, some games run a little bit faster (yesterday I played Robocop and the speech and music didn't sound right)

Looks like HDMI output uses some odd timing which lowers compatibility a lot.

Also, some things that I didn't mention:

* In Uno's latest core you could play PZX tapes.
* NextOS browser doesn't support .TRD files, you have to boot in pure 128K mode and load them using ESXDOS.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Seven.FFF »

Nirvana and a lot of demos work great in 128K or 48K mode. There are a couple of glitches to be worked out still but it is pretty much there.

The Next mode is intended for new features and new games rather than 100% compatibility.

HDMI mode is really a bunch of timing compromises for walk-in punters who want to use it as a console on their big screen TVs. Stick to exactly 50Hz over VGA or RGB and you’ll be fine.

The 128K mode is a much fairer comparison to the Uno than the Next mode is.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by beanz »

The next is far from finished, even when the cased units ship work will continue on it. Comparing it to something that's been out for near a couple of years now is a bit silly.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Magnus »

beanz wrote: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:53 am The next is far from finished, even when the cased units ship work will continue on it. Comparing it to something that's been out for near a couple of years now is a bit silly.
I find the comparison interesting, at least while I'm waiting for my Next ;). Anyway, you have a good point concerning the maturity of the Next, but when it comes to 48K/128K compatibility I would expect the Next to perform well, even if it is a new product. Time will tell...
My ZX Spectrum emulator project: https://softspectrum48.weebly.com.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by beanz »

I haven't seen any issues so far with 48/128k compatibility on my board. It's run everything I've thrown at it so far, I don't use HDMI out though, I use VGA.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Seven.FFF »

It's only really small things. Try running shock demo pt 2.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Pegaz »

What is the purpose of having an HDMI output if it creates compatibility problems?
And how this can be solved? New motherboard revision or just core upgrade?
After all, Raspberry Pi with any Spectrum emulator, has HDMI support without any issues...
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Seven.FFF »

HDMI was promised on the Kickstarter so it has (if at all possible) to be provided in some form. This seems to be the least worst possible way to achieve it for the average backer. Henrique mentioned providing an alternate core build that drops VGA and RGB, and simplifies the design to achieve better HDMI timings for demosceners.

The Pis run at GHz speed and have a dedicated SoC. The Next runs internally at 28MHz and this master clock is sped up or slowed down to achieve a compatible video clock.

They’re not even remotely comparable, and in fact there’s a Luddite resistance in the “average backer” userbase towards anything resembling emulation or relying on the Pi accelerator for baseline features. Stupid, but this is how people are.

If you want the simplest cheapest Spectrum emulation over HDMI then you really can’t go wrong with a £3 Pi Zero. But you probably wouldn’t have backed the Next either.
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beanz
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by beanz »

One current on Ebay USA with aftermarket case...get it while it's hot.

Already at $280 with 6 days to go

https://www.ebay.com/itm/283046749482
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by SteveZX81 »

Bought a Spectrum off ebay but then realised I cannot easily connect it to my HDMI monitors, so the seller kindly refunded me.

I'm now looking at a Spectrum next, I see on their site its out of stock, any clues when they will have more or was it a one batch only and its gone?
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by Seven.FFF »

There were a limited number for sale on the webshop when the kickstarted ended, but there won’t be any more from this manufacturing run. You best chance chance is to pick up one on eBay after the Kickstarter units ship out, as a bunch of people no longer want them, bought two, or bought them to sell.

It’s quite possible there might be another manufacturing run later, now the case moulds exist. But they aren’t committing to any definite plans yet.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by SteveZX81 »

Seven.FFF wrote: Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:03 am There were a limited number for sale on the webshop when the kickstarted ended, but there won’t be any more from this manufacturing run. You best chance chance is to pick up one on eBay after the Kickstarter units ship out, as a bunch of people no longer want them, bought two, or bought them to sell.

It’s quite possible there might be another manufacturing run later, now the case moulds exist. But they aren’t committing to any definite plans yet.
Thanks for your help. I bet any on ebay would fetch quite huge prices, well out of my budget hehe.
I'll just keep checking ebay for a cheap +2 or +3 and then pay for a refurb.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Next

Post by beanz »

Might be cheaper to just buy an LCD/LED Monitor/TV with composite inputs (thrift stores around here sell them for $10 and up) and do the composite mod on a speccy if you are just looking for a speccy on a budget.
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