ZX Vega+ Discussion

[5MinuteRetro]

I'm going to put my head above the parapet and say I honestly believed it would be coming out back in 2016. Some of the rather aggressive and immature language from Retro Computers's critics made me think that the project was just a plucky underdog and being held back by bitter fallouts.

By early 2017 of course, it was pretty obvious I was wrong, RCL weren't fulfilling promises. Yes, you can have delays with things, but nothing was adding up.

Having said that, some of the vitriol that is still hurled at David Levy and Suzanne Levy is sadly childish and personal. I wish a few of the ZX Vega+ critics would avoid the silly Photoshopped insults and the graffiti-on-a-toilet-door level of abuse, although my sympathy is now at graphene-thin levels.

I agree with all of that.

It seems reasonable to have believed it was going to happen up until around the end of 2016. Indeed, I tapped up an old journo colleague who had a brief hands-on with the device at Wired 2016, and what he said to me then -- albeit it brief -- made me think that perhaps my doubts were unfounded. So yeah, I can see that even someone close to the scene might still have expected a successful outcome at that point.

And yep, all the silly stuff on social media is unfortunate -- not least because it aided RCL's go-to defence of online 'trolls' holding up progress. But that defence, tenuous though it always was, now looks utterly ridiculous. Sticks and stones and all that.

[PaddyC13]

I have to say I am surprised that Sir Clive has not stepped in sooner (or his son on his behalf). One can only think his health is not good and/or he has loyalty to the folks at RCL. I wrote off my £100+ long ago and do not expect to see the console or money again. If something turns up then it is a bonus but looking at the Vega on the video it is not pretty and not what Ron Dickinson designed.

All very sad...

Paddy

[druellan]

From that newly released video of a supposed ZX Vega+ V2, the games list is, um, slightly less than 1000...

This is a blessing. Imagine trying to press those super stiff buttons on more than 20 games...

[Seven.FFF]

Did you see the tube of UHU glue in that stupid video, that they probably stuck the screen on with. FFS!

[Ralf]

I have to say I am surprised that Sir Clive has not stepped in sooner (or his son on his behalf)

I guess he doesn't give a damn about it. He put some signature, collected some bank transfer and that was all his involvement into Vega+ project. He's not interested in it and doesn't feel responsible for it.

As for the "trolls", yes, they give a good excuse for RCL - look we didn't do our job because we were attacked and harrased all the time. On the other hand, personally I have a low opinion of David Levy and feel that the trolls by their harassment were doing some kind of justice to him.

[PeteProdge]

From that newly released video of a supposed ZX Vega+ V2, the games list is, um, slightly less than 1000...

This is a blessing. Imagine trying to press those super stiff buttons on more than 20 games...

Daley Thompson - The Arthritis Years.

[PeteProdge]

I have to say I am surprised that Sir Clive has not stepped in sooner (or his son on his behalf).

To be quite blunt, Sir Clive Sinclair is not the hero of retrogaming that some make him out to be. He's really stubborn, HATES the fact that Spectrum was used for gaming and well, let's be honest, decided the future of motoring was in some tiny plastic cart powered by a washing machine motor that left you nose-level with a lorry's exhaust pipe.

Inventors are often lauded for their brave innovation, but I think a critical eye needs to be cast. John Logie Baird is often credited with inventing television, but his contraption was massively inefficient and superceded by rival technology within a few months.

[PROSM]

I have to say I am surprised that Sir Clive has not stepped in sooner (or his son on his behalf).

To be quite blunt, Sir Clive Sinclair is not the hero of retrogaming that some make him out to be. He's really stubborn, HATES the fact that Spectrum was used for gaming and well, let's be honest, decided the future of motoring was in some tiny plastic cart powered by a washing machine motor that left you nose-level with a lorry's exhaust pipe.

Inventors are often lauded for their brave innovation, but I think a critical eye needs to be cast. John Logie Baird is often credited with inventing television, but his contraption was massively inefficient and superceded by rival technology within a few months.

I totally agree with you there. In my opinion, the real heroes were Rick Dickinson, Richard Altwasser and Steve Vickers. I feel that these three are the true creators of the Spectrum. They actually built the hardware, with Vickers writing the ROM, Altwasser designing the hardware and memory-efficient video mode and Dickinson creating the legendary case. Sinclair was really just directing them and using the revenue from the computers for his more ambitious products that were somewhat questionable in their usefulness and purpose. That isn't to say that Sir Clive wasn't a good inventor, just that some of his ideas weren't thought out very well.

[beanz]

And yep, all the silly stuff on social media is unfortunate -- not least because it aided RCL's go-to defence of online 'trolls' holding up progress. But that defence, tenuous though it always was, now looks utterly ridiculous. Sticks and stones and all that.

Yup it really didn't aid them...not sure how exactly ANYONE would buy the idea that a few negative words on social media would halt production of a physical object.

"Sorry lads, shut down the production line, someone posted that we are scammers on twitter again".

[Seven.FFF]

To be quite blunt, Sir Clive Sinclair is not the hero of retrogaming that some make him out to be. He's really stubborn, HATES the fact that Spectrum was used for gaming and well, let's be honest, decided the future of motoring was in some tiny plastic cart powered by a washing machine motor that left you nose-level with a lorry's exhaust pipe.

I agree. To some extent, Sir Clive got the Dr Levy he deserved. It's just really unfortunate that we all got him too.

[PeterJ]

I won't ever be able to see anything bad about Sir Clive! As for the Vega+ it sadly caused a huge amount of damage and long term hurt to the community.

[chinnyhill10]

I never backed it because there were always cheaper alternatives to the ZX Vega+, and if you've watched ChinnyVision, there's one of a cheap Android gaming tablet that doesn't just emulate the Spectrum, it does just about every system you could expect from the emulation scene these days.

And that's basically it. People assume you need a state of the art iPhone or Samsung to do this stuff when a cheap tablet from 2013 works just fine. Decent screen, ran everything I threw at it. And that was what, 50 quid? In fact second hand (and mine is currently on Ebay) even less!

Or if you want to throw your money around, for as little as 100 you can have something quite nice indeed that runs a new version of Android.

It's all nuts. A product that is only selling on the Sinclair name. It's kind of fun when you find a Megadrive handheld for 10 quid. Bit crap but works. But for the kind of money they wanted for a single format device and on a format that is well emulated on everything from the Amiga to the iPhone X, nah!

[chinnyhill10]

I have to say I am surprised that Sir Clive has not stepped in sooner (or his son on his behalf).

To be quite blunt, Sir Clive Sinclair is not the hero of retrogaming that some make him out to be. He's really stubborn, HATES the fact that Spectrum was used for gaming and well, let's be honest, decided the future of motoring was in some tiny plastic cart powered by a washing machine motor that left you nose-level with a lorry's exhaust pipe.

He seems to get a free pass over the QL which saw hardware promised that didn't exist, bugged hardware and delay after delay. Oh and the money was taken up front and promises made about delivery dates that were broken again and again. Sound familiar?

Sinclair and others doing this heavily influenced Alan Sugar's policy of not announcing products until they physically existed. Amstrad product launches from the 464 onwards had demo machines air freighted in from the production line (i.e ahead of the boat) for the people attending to use.

[Spud]

That isn't to say that Sir Clive wasn't a good inventor, just that some of his ideas weren't thought out very well.

I would imagine for most inventors: for every decent invention there is a bunch of arse that came before it and likely after it.

[chinnyhill10]

I won't ever be able to see anything bad about Sir Clive!

And this is why RCL made sure he was on-board. The friendly uncle image. Not the man who used to promise stuff that didn't exist and caused his company to go bust by spending all the profits on projects that went nowhere.

[PeterJ]

I won't ever be able to see anything bad about Sir Clive!

And this is why RCL made sure he was on-board. The friendly uncle image. Not the man who used to promise stuff that didn't exist and caused his company to go bust by spending all the profits on projects that went nowhere.

You are right, but I don't think the Spectrum would have existed without him. He is great at invention but not business!

[PeteProdge]

And this is why RCL made sure he was on-board. The friendly uncle image. Not the man who used to promise stuff that didn't exist and caused his company to go bust by spending all the profits on projects that went nowhere.

You are right, but I don't think the Spectrum would have existed without him. He is great at invention but not business!

Imagine where he'd be if he just shrugged his prejudices and realised that the Spectrum was first and foremost a games machine. If he embraced all that, invested more into it (like Alan Sugar did when he got his mitts on the Sinclair range), he'd could swim in a reservoir of notes and coins like Scrooge McDuck.

But no, an electric cart with a top speed of 15mph is what he thought the public wanted.

[PeterJ]

[mention]PeteProdge[/mention], as mentioned above great at invention, not so good at business. I think that taking risks with new products is great, and sadly missing today. The world is full of people who made bad business decisions, but without some of these you would not have innovation that the UK used to be famed for. So I'm summary, I do partially agree with you, but not completely. That is fine!

[hikoki]

C'mon.. think of self-driving C5 bikes on your cycle lane networks.. wouldn't it be jawesome? Obviously Sinclair AI algos should be fist be improved to prevent your jaw from bumping into other C5 and regular bicycles

[1024MAK]

If you are going to judge Clive Sinclair and Alan Sugar, keep in mind that both of them were not exactly known for quality products before they got into the computer business.

And keep in mind why the ZX80, ZX81 and the ZX Spectrum were successful, it was being able to come up with a design that was cheaper than the competition. And hence got a huge chunk of the new U.K. home computer market. But Sinclair always was only interested in his new ideas. If the ZX80 had not been successful, he would have given up with computers at that point. His computers were just another product.

As the home computer market took off, Sugar then saw a market he could make money from. Hence entered the home computer market some years after the ZX Spectrum had been launched (some of the delay being the development time of what became the CPC464). He took advantage of his skills, that is getting his products produced overseas at low cost and finding a team that could design and produce a computer that was at least as good as, and in many ways, better than the ZX Spectrum, but which had the 'feel' of the Acorn BBC Micro. Plus he sold it as a bundle, and in the U.K. at least, most people love a bargain bundle

But I don't think any of this is relevant to the Vega+ or Retro Computers. Clive Sinclair is not going to save the day. As a shareholder, you are mostly interested in getting your investment back. How you manage that with Retro Computers, I don't know. And I don't think anyone else does either. Hence this will drag on for some time yet.

I have a nasty feeling there is still a lot of the story that we still don't know. When the original team split up, is when I feared the worse, but hoped that the new team could pull a rabbit out of the hat. I'm not that surprised that they haven't.

Mark

[For the record, I have CPC machines as well as ZX Spectrums]

[chinnyhill10]

Imagine where he'd be if he just shrugged his prejudices and realised that the Spectrum was first and foremost a games machine. If he embraced all that, invested more into it (like Alan Sugar did when he got his mitts on the Sinclair range), he'd could swim in a reservoir of notes and coins like Scrooge McDuck.

But no, an electric cart with a top speed of 15mph is what he thought the public wanted.

One of the most telling things was that when Amstrad were casting their eye over all the computer projects Sinclair had in development, they said "no thanks" to the lot and offloaded the QL rights. There was nothing market viable there which is the real tragedy. The next generation of Spectrum should have been on the shelves for Xmas '85 but Clive was more interested in the C5 and Water Scale Integration and the Speccy was just a distraction that was bankrolling the entire circus.

All they had to do was sell and develop the Spectrum and not throw too much away on risky projects. It's nuts really.

[chinnyhill10]

As the home computer market took off, Sugar then saw a market he could make money from. Hence entered the home computer market some years after the ZX Spectrum had been launched

I have a nasty feeling there is still a lot of the story that we still don't know. When the original team split up, is when I feared the worse, but hoped that the new team could pull a rabbit out of the hat. I'm not that surprised that they haven't.

Mark

[For the record, I have CPC machines as well as ZX Spectrums]

The CPC was in gestation for a while. It was early '83 that the first abortive attempt at the CPC went into development. It eventually came to market 2 years after the Spectrum had launched in '84. And it was a competitive market as well. Over 20 different competing home computers on the market at the time. People lost fortunes, companies went bust. Very few companies walked away from the '82 to '85 period unscathed although ironically Sinclair's wounds were self inflicted.

But ironically this period *is* relevant to the Vega. Scan through the pages of Personal Computer News and you will find story after story of missed deadlines, promises not kept, vapourware, fallings out, financial disasters and high drama. In fact things were so bad that when the Amstrad DMP1 printer is launched PCN comment that Amstrad were unusual in delivering the product that they said they would, at the price they said they would and on time!

It's actually the full early 80's computer experience complete with the 'pre-orders' that Clive encouraged in that famous QL launch where he had no machines.

And yeah there is gonna be a book on the Vega fiasco and somehow I don't think anyone will be cast in a good light.

[PeterJ]

The QL did turn up though. I have a rather nice example sitting in it's original box next to me. Innovation is a risk, and that's probably why he played poker in later life, but I for one am pleased he took those risks.

I too look forward to the full Vega+ honest story, but I gave up on getting my £100 back, a long, long time ago. When I think of how long the trolls have spent on social media moaning about things under their false names I feel quite sad and sorry for them. Get outside and enjoy life! Spend it with friends and people and things you care about. It isn't long until life is over.

[Seven.FFF]

Levy was at it in the 80s too. The Register article on the mismanaged development and launch of the Elan Enterprise is a great read.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/2 ... years_old/

[chinnyhill10]

The QL did turn up though. I have a rather nice example sitting in it's original box next to me. Innovation is a risk, and that's probably why he played poker in later life, but I for one am pleased he took those risks.

Yes it did but look at the mess. Delays, broken promises, dongles on the back to fix the ROM, micro drives getting warm and becoming unreliable. A nice boxed example is one thing, having laid out the equivalent of nearly a grand back in the day for a late broken computer may have felt quite different.