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Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:15 pm
by PeterJ
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Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:49 pm
by Joefish
Oh dear. It seems I am no longer a part of the VEGA+ 'Legal Action' Facebook group. They'll just have to go on taking their legal action against RCL without me. Apparently, according to Darren Melbourne, my 'calm' and 'carefully selected' words were far too 'inflammatory'. I can only assume that I didn't resort to sufficient back-biting, name-calling and internet bullying to qualify as a member of the true circle of incubated sycophants.

It's amusing that I was continually accused of holding Jonathan Cauldwell up as an unassailable saint by someone who basically did everything he was accusing me of, point-by-point, in his pandering to absolve Paul Andrews of any possible criticism for his part in this debacle. I merely commented that Jonathan saying he was leaving the scene was a sad turn of events, whilst I found the gloating over it in that group quite distressing. And then it all kicked off, as it does in these selective little echo-chambers of the internet.

Unfortunately I never got to ask if Mr. Andrews was still available to assist in court cases against the company he now asserts to be director of, or if that would (or would have) constitute a 'conflict of interest' (heaven forbid). Nor did I last long enough to see an answer to my question of whether he thought it acceptable, hypothetically, to make personal use of a company's list of business partners after one has resigned from said company.

Still, I'm sure someone will happily cut and paste this post into the group without the slightest hint of hypocrisy, even after accusing me of being a spy and doing exactly that for others, in the knowledge they have a safe padded playroom in which to lambast me with no redress. Charmed to have made their acquaintance, if only so briefly.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:00 pm
by beanz
Huh?

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:02 pm
by Joefish
Seem to have been booted from a Facebook group for differing from the groupthink. Sorry, I thought a flouncy rant about such things was traditional? :lol:

Tl;DR - Apparently Jonathan Cauldwell has said he's sick of the whole Speccy scene and is packing it in; Melbourne has been hassling him into making some sort of publicly penitent 'apology' for being seen to help out RCL under Levy's tenure; and those who like to gloat over such perceived 'victories' don't appear to respond well to dissenting opinions.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:35 pm
by Ast A. Moore
Joefish wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:02 pm Apparently Jonathan Cauldwell has said he's sick of the whole Speccy scene and is packing it in.
I was wondering why he disappeared from Twitter. Too bad he took it to heart. I (kind of) understand his frustration, but why such a drastic “I’m done with the whole Speccy scene” move? Is there a scene? There are people who grew up with the Speccy and love it. Some of them are not particularly pleasant individuals, but wouldn’t it have been more productive to ignore them, rather than completely pull out of something that you’ve held dear most of your life?

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:09 pm
by beanz
Ast A. Moore wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:35 pm
Joefish wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:02 pm Apparently Jonathan Cauldwell has said he's sick of the whole Speccy scene and is packing it in.
I was wondering why he disappeared from Twitter. Too bad he took it to heart. I (kind of) understand his frustration, but why such a drastic “I’m done with the whole Speccy scene” move? Is there a scene? There are people who grew up with the Speccy and love it. Some of them are not particularly pleasant individuals, but wouldn’t it have been more productive to ignore them, rather than completely pull out of something that you’ve held dear most of your life?
As I recall (well per one of George's youtube videos) Jonathan had said he would quit the scene if the backers didn't get their Vega+ units...so...

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:25 pm
by Ast A. Moore
beanz wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:09 pm
Ast A. Moore wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:35 pm I was wondering why he disappeared from Twitter. Too bad he took it to heart. I (kind of) understand his frustration, but why such a drastic “I’m done with the whole Speccy scene” move? Is there a scene? There are people who grew up with the Speccy and love it. Some of them are not particularly pleasant individuals, but wouldn’t it have been more productive to ignore them, rather than completely pull out of something that you’ve held dear most of your life?
As I recall (well per one of George's youtube videos) Jonathan had said he would quit the scene if the backers didn't get their Vega+ units...so...
Jesus. Why on earth would someone promise something like that? Oh, well. I don’t think I want to know. I’m not on Facebook, so I haven’t followed the drama too closely. The information I gathered from other sources was enough for me to stay way clear of the whole thing.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:00 pm
by ZXDunny
It does seem to be ab awful shame that some of the most talented of the Speccy's scene - the ones who basically help keep the whole thing going - feel they need to leave its communities. This makes me sad, and I'm sorry that this happened.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:24 pm
by Morcar
Jonathan has had enough of certain individuals harassing him and I can't say I blame him. To think that some of these people have used his tools to make games and that those very tools have revived the homebrew scene. People need to give him credit on what he has done and I for one thank him for putting in the work for the community.

As for the very same people who seem to push people out for speaking out. I think it speaks volumes and shows that they have a very limited view on the whole crapfest that is the Vega+

There is more to this story than what we are being told about both on RCL and the other side. I for one hope it will come out sooner rather than later because although it's only a minority we do have a toxic corner of the community that are following like blind sheep.

Before any of you say it yes I did play a part in the Vega+ crapper and I have apologised for any offence I caused, but when you have people sending you abuse every day and even doxxing you. I think you can imagine anyone would be angry and would speak their mind with not giving a damn what happens next.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:45 pm
by ZXDunny
I think that what will happen next is that the whole thing will just disappear.

There will be the occasional success story to rouse the troops, of some people winning small-claims judgements and suchlike.

There will continue to be calls to boycott/attack anything that the former directors of RCL are involved in - witness the vitriol being thrown at Planet Computers right now for their Gemini projects (I myself advocated caution on that one due to their involvement in the RCL affair, and they acquitted themselves admirably with a strong and importantly available product), or the various outfits that have affiliations with Levy. Any news that shows him to have been pushed out or removed from an event or somesuch will be met with glee.

Maybe small dramas - such as former directors being reinstated with an air of "oh ho! Things are gonna get moving now!" quickly followed by "ah, no they're not."

I suspect there will be things like meetings possibly (unlikely now, I think) or court dates that come and go with no real resolution.

And the leaked email drip-feed that was putting out new bits of highly incriminating gossip on an almost daily basis has now pretty much fizzled out, with no discernible ill-effects for the erstwhile RCL employees at the centre of it all.

It's easy to see why people are upset - they have lost money after all, and Uncle Clive has (unsurprisingly) abandoned them to their fates. But there is literally nothing to be done now. The backers will continue, where they can be bothered, to try and get their money back, and the rest will claim great victory when one manages to do so.

But nothing else will happen.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:39 am
by Vampyre
Personally I had little interest in the thing from the start, and even less so now, but the whole debacle has been a toxic mark on the scene that has fractured it almost beyond repair. Prominent members of the scene leaving over it is an utter shame.

What didn't help was the two factions (and I'm talking about the scene, not the company itself) being constantly at war and, let's face it, the side that believed it was a complete mess won out in the end.

It also didn't help that higher profile members of the scene supported it, primarily WoS leadership and followers IMO, but I don't really blame them here; they were lead down the garden path with false promises. But it still leaves a bitter taste in the mouth the false promises they regurgitated only to backtrack completely.

It may have happened, I long ago left any toxic Spectrum social media, but it would help if the two factions could find some middle ground, apologise to one another and move on. I don't think that's going to happen given the egos and bitterness involved though.

I've kept my mouth shut from the start about it, waiting to see how it would play out, but it would have been better that it had never been thought of. I never saw the point anyway: a Nintendo DS is a far superior mobile alternative.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:43 am
by Ralf
Jesus. Why on earth would someone promise something like that?
I can confirm he did it. Jonathan engaged quite strongly into Vega+ project, gave his unconditional support to it and said many times it will be delivered to backers. I believe it was his feeling of "honour" - if it turns out that I lied, I'll quit.

Personally I don't approve his support for David Levy who seems to be very shady businessman with "sharp business practices" as someone called it. Jonathan made a bad choice but well, sometimes it happens to all of us.

But I respect Jonathan for his other deeds at Spectrum scene and this means to me he still deserves some respect, not hatred.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:47 am
by 8BitAG
It's a sobering reminder that community sites like WOS and Spectrum Computing should keep projects like that at arm's length... Offering to help make connections between the companies and people who could help in the community is fine, but it is extremely risky to get involved more deeply with a commercial venture. Especially when these commercial ventures often aim to exploit IP whose ownership is pretty nebulous.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:22 pm
by PeterJ
Agreed ,

Can I stress that we have never, and will never have in the future any commercial connections.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:22 pm
by PeterJ
PeterJ wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:22 pm Agreed ,

Can I stress that we have never, and will never have in the future any commercial connections.
Although if anyone from Sony is reading this and they want to sponsor the site in return for a 55" Ultra HD TV I'm open to bribery!

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:59 pm
by Joefish
PeterJ wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:22 pm Agreed ,
Can I stress that we have never, and will never have in the future any commercial connections.
So who pays the hosting bills then?

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:02 pm
by PeterJ
Joefish wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:59 pm
PeterJ wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:22 pm Agreed ,
Can I stress that we have never, and will never have in the future any commercial connections.
So who pays the hosting bills then?
Me from my personal bank account, £15 plus VAT per month from Digital Ocean. I also pay domain registration. A very kind user donates £10 per month, but I cover the rest. The SSL certificate is through let's encrypt which is free. I have also previously had two one off donations from users.

There may be a time in the future (especially if we need more space or the donation stops) that I need to ask for help with the bills, but for now I'm fine.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:10 pm
by Joefish
Fair enough.
I was a bit narked to see fingers going into pies surrounding the CGC. I pay for a chunk of webspace with not a lot on it anyway, and did wonder why something as small-scale as that needed commercial backing.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:24 pm
by Morkin
Joefish wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:10 pm Fair enough.
I was a bit narked to see fingers going into pies surrounding the CGC. I pay for a chunk of webspace with not a lot on it anyway, and did wonder why something as small-scale as that needed commercial backing.
Might have been a 'pay per UDG' arrangement...

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:40 pm
by 1024MAK
Vampyre wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:39 amWhat didn't help was the two factions (and I'm talking about the scene, not the company itself) being constantly at war and, let's face it, the side that believed it was a complete mess won out in the end.
IMHO everyone looses. No one wins. The backers don’t get the item they were expecting, and if they get anything, it is far later than they were led to believe. We won’t even talk about the lack of quality.
The splits, in fighting and so on in the community will take a long time to heal.
Members of the community who were upset don’t forgive the other people who annoyed them.
Some talented members leave the community.

And all the deliberate misleading or deliberate winding up that went on has not helped one little bit.

It does not surprise me one bit that some social groups have degenerated into something you may see in a junior school playground.

In short, we have the worst possible outcome.

Mark

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:52 pm
by jmk
It really is time for the public figures associated with the project to think about what is happening. A wasteland is being created in the name of justice.

They really should consider the long-term implications of being associated with some of those acting in their names. Thank them for their efforts in supporting their cause, but draw a clear line between that which is acceptable and that which is not.

Simply put, this must cease.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:05 am
by Vampyre
1024MAK wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:40 pm
Vampyre wrote: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:39 amWhat didn't help was the two factions (and I'm talking about the scene, not the company itself) being constantly at war and, let's face it, the side that believed it was a complete mess won out in the end.
IMHO everyone looses. No one wins.
Oh, don't get me wrong. When I say won, it's the hollowest of hollow victories.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:38 pm
by PeterJ
RCL have been given an order to wind up by the courts. If we hadn't already given up hope of getting any money back, now is the time to put it down to experience.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

Papers will appear within 5 days.

That's the risk of crowdfunding...

Thanks for continuing to keep this thread good humoured and factual.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:01 pm
by AndyC
A really sad end to what should have been a fantastic product. It always felt like something that should have been entirely achievable, but somehow wandered off on a bad route due to the individuals involved. And probably a sign we won't ever see a speccy handheld device ever.

Re: ZX Vega+ Discussion

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:25 pm
by stupidget
Just get one of these instead!!!! Drooollll


Image

https://www.dorchester3d.com/printing/b ... t-handheld