Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by chequered flag »

If "modern" means "for sale now" then the operating system or firmware of DivMMC is esxDOS. It does not work with 128K Basic.

http://www.esxdos.org/index.html

The hardware in DivMMC does not work with Interface 1. So you cannot have DivMMC with Microdrive or vDrive (or ZX NET for those network games).


Here are some more modern DivMMCs.

https://www.bytedelight.com/?product_cat=divmmc-enjoy

https://www.8bits4ever.net/zxspectrum
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Seven.FFF
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by Seven.FFF »

DivMMC works fine with the 128K BASIC in the +3e ROMS, doesn’t it? That’s what you’d usually get if you wanted to use the two together.
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cha05e90
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by cha05e90 »

...but the +3e-ROMS aren't operable in a 128k toastrack model? Or are they?
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1024MAK
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by 1024MAK »

cha05e90 wrote: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:51 am ...but the +3e-ROMS aren't operable in a 128k toastrack model? Or are they?
16K/48K/+ machines use a single 16K byte ROM chip
128K/+2 (gray) machines use a single 32K byte ROM chip
+2A/+2B/+3/+3B machines use two 32K byte ROM chips (the extra ROM contains the disk drive operating system).

The +3e ROMs are a very much improved version of the +2A/+2B/+3/+3B ROMs.

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bytesguy
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by bytesguy »

Is it possible to save from divmmc as a pure .bas file (text file), rather than saving as .tap? I'm mostly working on a PC myself but sometimes I make on the fly modifications directly on the device. Starting to wonder if it would be any easier to use my Spectrum Next instead?
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by p13z »

Using a Spectranet for stuff like this is way easier and more useful than faffing around with olschool local removable media like DivIDE / MMC.
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by 1024MAK »

The ZX Spectrum does not save files as ‘text’ files. All the keywords are stored as tokens and each program line has hidden data. For example any literal numbers are stored both as visible text digits and in the machines own run time number format.

So you would need an application to convert to and from this data format to get to/from a text file that a normal Windows / Linux / iOS machine application would work okay with.

Are you using an emulator on your PC?

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bytesguy
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by bytesguy »

p13z wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:08 am Using a Spectranet for stuff like this is way easier and more useful than faffing around with olschool local removable media like DivIDE / MMC.
Interesting, not seen that before! Might have to check it out
1024MAK wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:08 am The ZX Spectrum does not save files as ‘text’ files. All the keywords are stored as tokens and each program line has hidden data. For example any literal numbers are stored both as visible text digits and in the machines own run time number format.

So you would need an application to convert to and from this data format to get to/from a text file that a normal Windows / Linux / iOS machine application would work okay with.

Are you using an emulator on your PC?

Mark
Ah yes of course, that makes sense now that I think about it :D At the moment I use zesarux with one of the "recreated" zx spectrums as a keyboard - really looking towards finding a better way to write the basic on a PC (perhaps in VS Code?) then deploy it to an emulator/spectrum for testing. The few things I found seem to rely on the boriel basic compiler which is awesome, but a lot of the time I just want to run pure basic
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by Turtle_Quality »

For entering/debugging Spectrum Basic on PC, checkout BASINC , a fork of Dunny's BASIN.
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by AndyC »

BASin (and it's variants) is basically designed for that sort of thing. It's a Windows editor/emulator geared around BASIC programming. I've not used it much, but someone can probably suggest the best version to pick up (I think the latest BASinC was the version recommended last time I read about it)
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by Turtle_Quality »

Use BASINC, it's got a few bugfixes and features since BASIN

https://arda.kisafilm.org/blog/?cat=13&lang=en

And it's definitely far easier to input and monitor your basic program from here than on the Spectrum, you've got cut and paste, renumbering, there are watch windows for variable contents, breakpoints, single stepping and various other goodies.
Definition of loop : see loop
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bytesguy
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by bytesguy »

Thanks all! Looks like I'll be checking out BASINC this evening :mrgreen: Looks perfect for what I need - surprised I didn't stumble across this before!
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by Jbizzel »

The divide or similar device with the latest esxdos is surely the best modern was to use the spectrum.

You can save to the flash memory or you can load/create a virtual tape and save to a tap file.

You can even swap Tapes while one program is running.

Another option is the 2e/3e but I believe it is more tricky to swap files between the spectrum and pc so exsdos is my preference, although I have both.
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cha05e90
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by cha05e90 »

bytesguy wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:23 am Is it possible to save from divmmc as a pure .bas file (text file), rather than saving as .tap? I'm mostly working on a PC myself but sometimes I make on the fly modifications directly on the device. Starting to wonder if it would be any easier to use my Spectrum Next instead?
Of course you can save directly to SD card without the need to use a *.tap-file. AFAIK you can for example save your BASIC program with

Code: Select all

SAVE * "myprog" LINE 10
SAVE *  "dev/stuff/myrpog"
But these are - of course - not pure .txt files - but i'm sure somewhere is a esxDOS DOT command that converts tokenised BASIC files to plain .txt files and vice versa! :-)
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by flatduckrecords »

[mention]bytesguy[/mention] Remy Sharp has a web based tool for converting between plain text and “+3DOS” (i.e. the format created by SAVE* under esxDOS) that I’ve found really useful.

I supports Next BASIC, but I haven’t had any problems using it with Sinclair BASIC. The webpage will work offline, but if you are familiar with Node/npm you can install it locally as a command line interface as well.
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by Sparky »

For people outside the UK, getting a DivMmc is almost impossible due to Brexit, and until they iron things out. Even ebay sellers have stopped selling them to the EU.
I found one at thefuturewas8bit, but the only shipping option is DHL and costs £43!!
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1024MAK
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by 1024MAK »

Err, not all the sellers are in the U.K., some are elsewhere in the EU.

BREXIT is a right royal pain in the behind, but at least there is a trade deal, so it’s not as bad as it could have been. But let’s not talk politics here.

Just after Christmas is probably not the best time to be a buyer, as most of the interfaces and add-ons/expansions are made by individual people. The very same people are likely to have enjoyed time off during the holiday period.

Keep looking, it may take a while for production to catch up with demand.

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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by PeterJ »

Are you happy to go with divIDE [mention]Sparky[/mention]?

If so, maybe this may be cheaper postage as he is based in Poland?

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=287

You could also contact Zaxon. He does a very nice divMMC device that I have. He regularly lists them (They are not listed currently though):

https://www.sellmyretro.com/user/profile/zaxon

You can see my review here:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2763
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by PeterJ »

1024MAK wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:09 pm Keep looking, it may take a while for production to catch up with demand.

Mark
I think also with ByteDelight pretty much stopping production that probably increases prices and availability of other similar devices.
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by p13z »

Jbizzel wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:18 am The divide or similar device with the latest esxdos is surely the best modern was to use the spectrum.
It was 15 years ago.
Spectranet or something like a 1Bis is a lot nicer and easier to use.
( or even a Spectrum NEXT )
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by PeterJ »

p13z wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:54 pm
Jbizzel wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:18 am The divide or similar device with the latest esxdos is surely the best modern was to use the spectrum.
It was 15 years ago.
Spectranet or something like a 1Bis is a lot nicer and easier to use.
( or even a Spectrum NEXT )
I tend to agree with you. I know the divMMC is the most popular device, but some games need adaptations to work with them. I use the 1Bis most of the time.
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1024MAK
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by 1024MAK »

To understand the ByteDelight situation, watch this video.

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PeterJ
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by PeterJ »

1024MAK wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:33 pm To understand the ByteDelight situation, watch this video.

Mark
Thanks [mention]1024MAK[/mention],

I subscribe to his newsletter, and follow him on FB so understand the situation. I'm sure once he gets settled into his new job he will produce more. Just depends how much spare time he gets I suppose.
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by bytesguy »

flatduckrecords wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:42 pm @bytesguy Remy Sharp has a web based tool for converting between plain text and “+3DOS” (i.e. the format created by SAVE* under esxDOS) that I’ve found really useful.

I supports Next BASIC, but I haven’t had any problems using it with Sinclair BASIC. The webpage will work offline, but if you are familiar with Node/npm you can install it locally as a command line interface as well.
Ah thanks good shout, might be a good method!
PeterJ wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:10 pm Are you happy to go with divIDE [mention]Sparky[/mention]?

If so, maybe this may be cheaper postage as he is based in Poland?

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=287

You could also contact Zaxon. He does a very nice divMMC device that I have. He regularly lists them (They are not listed currently though):

https://www.sellmyretro.com/user/profile/zaxon

You can see my review here:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2763
I have a divmmc "future" device but never really got round to using it - I assume this is similar to other divmmc devices?

Also I have a Spectrum Next - looks like there is a way of having divmmc type fictionality there too though I honestly haven't had much time to play with the device!
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Re: Modern methods of saving BASIC programs

Post by PeterJ »

Yes, all divMMC devices have the same core functions, extras may include joystick ports, multiple SD card slots and built in sound controllers.
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