ZXBaremulator 3.2

Struggling with Fuse or trying to find an emulator with a specific feature. Ask your questions here.
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Pegaz
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Pegaz »

zx81 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:11 am
Pegaz wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:33 pm
I would just like to get rid of this buzzing sound, which we talked about earlier.
I don't know if you had time to investigate it, I just have this problem on each of my 3 pi models (2, 3, 3+) and I haven't been able to eliminate it, except using the old v2.0 version, which doesn't have a GPIO keyboard support.
However, BM has its advantages, such as precise emulation and the ability to easily connect the Spectrum keyboard and its also free.
I don't know which is the next equivalent variant, I guess ZX-Uno with twice the price than Pi, but also with greater potential for sure.
The new Next kickstarter is already around the corner, so everyone has something to choose for themselves...
The problem with the buzzing sound is that I can't reproduce it on my TVs. Could be that some TVs aren't happy with the 32 kHz sampling rate I use.

The ZX-Uno is dead. I own one, sleeping in his box. Nobody develops cores for it. Now, you can choose a MiSTer, Mistica or SiDi. But don't exist a FPGA core that his behaviour will be so precise as many software emulators. And nobody have enough motivation to enhance the cores. The most important core for MiSTer is NeoGeo.

The Next isn't for me, for less money I can have a MisTer with 128MB, I can live without his pretty keyboard.
Interesting, I didn’t know the situation with the zx-uno was so bad, I was just thinking of buying one.
In terms of emulation accuracy, what are the main differences between BM and ZX-Uno Spectrum core ?
Regarding buzzing sound, that remains as the only logical explanation, because I tried everything else (several Pi's, hdmi cables, power supplies) and it's always the same.
Is the sound part from v2.0 (including the sample rate you mention) the same or was it changed later, because I don't have a sound problem with this version.
I don't know much about that MisTer board, just noticed insane prices, say over $ 300.
Where do you find all that, cheaper than Next?
As for releasing source code, you are absolutely right.
There are too many thieves and dishonest people, who can't wait to take advantage of someone else's work.
For home use BM is quite good, as it is now.
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Mort »

I have the same annoyance with people reselling the mags I lovingly scanned, I have hopefully stolen their thunder as I have rescanned most at 600dpi and made them freely available.

I can understand people selling the interface boards for the baremetal emulators as they do take skill and time to make but not the software itself . At a push the complete machine with the software inside of it , but that is contentious with the amount being charged by some .

I have a few spare c64 interface boards as you have to buy a minimum from Pcbway . But would not resell the software.

To be honest I just love tinkering so making the machines keeps me sane in these uncertain times :D
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Pegaz »

Mort wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:48 am I have found no lag on either the Bmc64 emulator or the ZxBaremulator , They remind me of when I had the z80 emulator running in dos on the pc, just did what is needed to do and no windoze or operating system in the way.
I have always loved such dedicated machines.
Recently I adapted my old Toshiba Portege laptop with RealSpectrum emulator and MB02+ interface, as a default.
It performs really great, with support of a real floppy disks and saved me several hundred dollars for MB02. ;)
This old but still great emulator works best in pure DOS, I put it in the autoexec sequence and it boots up very quickly.
The biggest value of this emulator is full support for physical floppies, for almost all important Spectrum formats and interfaces.
It has full read/write support and I use it as an extremely valuable tool.
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by akeley »

Problem with lag is that it needs proper measuring, because the differences are pretty subtle. And OS is not the only reason causing it so there definitely still is some.

You can get MiSTer + 32 SDRAM for ~ 170E. This will run 90% of the cores. ZX Uno is about half that price, but only good for ZX (other cores are half baked).
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Mbwum73 »

I never realized people steel from you by selling your hard work. In that case don't release the source code. I was only suggesting it because it could help development forward. It is very usable already though and I'm quite happy with it. I just hope you may find time and inspiration to continue the development. Even if the group of users is still small.

By the way... That buzzing sound I hear it too. After every boot for a few seconds. Didn't hear it 2.0 though.
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Pegaz »

Mbwum73 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:45 pmBy the way... That buzzing sound I hear it too. After every boot for a few seconds. Didn't hear it 2.0 though.
Thanks for the confirmation, although it seems minor, this is a pretty annoying problem to me.
Earlier in this thread, I tested in detail the most common ways this issue is triggered.
Obviously it doesn’t happen to everyone, which is the worst case scenario for bugfixes...
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by zx81 »

Pegaz wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:55 am
zx81 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:11 am The problem with the buzzing sound is that I can't reproduce it on my TVs. Could be that some TVs aren't happy with the 32 kHz sampling rate I use.

The ZX-Uno is dead. I own one, sleeping in his box. Nobody develops cores for it. Now, you can choose a MiSTer, Mistica or SiDi. But don't exist a FPGA core that his behaviour will be so precise as many software emulators. And nobody have enough motivation to enhance the cores. The most important core for MiSTer is NeoGeo.

The Next isn't for me, for less money I can have a MisTer with 128MB, I can live without his pretty keyboard.
Interesting, I didn’t know the situation with the zx-uno was so bad, I was just thinking of buying one.
In terms of emulation accuracy, what are the main differences between BM and ZX-Uno Spectrum core ?
Regarding buzzing sound, that remains as the only logical explanation, because I tried everything else (several Pi's, hdmi cables, power supplies) and it's always the same.
Is the sound part from v2.0 (including the sample rate you mention) the same or was it changed later, because I don't have a sound problem with this version.
I don't know much about that MisTer board, just noticed insane prices, say over $ 300.
Where do you find all that, cheaper than Next?
As for releasing source code, you are absolutely right.
There are too many thieves and dishonest people, who can't wait to take advantage of someone else's work.
For home use BM is quite good, as it is now.
The ZX-Uno's Spectrum 48k core is basically correct, but the contended memory timings is wrong on all cores, all FPGA's I know. The 128k core isn't complete and the FPGA PLL can't generate the needed CPU freq. for the model (is off by 8 kHz). The +2a is the same core than 128k with the +2a ROMS. Anyway, the image quality is very poor, IMHO. Three years ago, could be that ZX-Uno was an option. Today, is obsolete.

All the ZXB versions uses the 32 kHz sampling rate. All my PIs runs correctly (B+, 2, 3, 3B+), so is a hard problem to debug. And change the sampling rate to 44.1 or 48 kHz isn't trivial.
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by akeley »

zx81 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:27 pm The ZX-Uno's Spectrum 48k core is basically correct, but the contended memory timings is wrong on all cores, all FPGA's I know. The 128k core isn't complete and the FPGA PLL can't generate the needed CPU freq. for the model (is off by 8 kHz). The +2a is the same core than 128k with the +2a ROMS.
How do contended memory timings affect accuracy? Could you give examples of software which does not work becasue of that?

It's the same for the 128K core, if they are meant in regard to MiSTer. I'm interested in perfecting these cores, so can ask questions about it but need some concrete examples of reproducible errors.
zx81 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:27 pm Anyway, the image quality is very poor, IMHO.
Both ZX Uno and MiSTer's IQ is 1:1 perfect when compared to my real ZX Spectrums - tried it side by side on CRT TVs. Could you be more specific?
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Pegaz »

[mention]zx81[/mention]

Just to be sure, I re-tested BM v3.2 today, on all three of my Pi's (2, 3, 3+) with small speakers connected to Pi and without any connection to the TV.
In all three cases, the buzzing sound is still there, which tells me that TV is not the cause of this problem after all.
So I think there is some change somewhere, starting with version v3.0, which is causing this sound issue.
The main “problem” is, that you haven’t experienced that issue and then it’s very hard to detect it.
However, if you get an idea, you can send a test version here, I'm sure some of us will gladly test and give full feedback...
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Mort »

I have sent you the link for the C64 baremetal as this explains a lot . Especially as its from the author, and he also made Baremetal emulators to run from the same sd card for the Pet, Vic and C16.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTCKtOAm9Uo
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by TMD2003 »

Well, it's working, even if I'm limited to using composite video (as I don't have any external speakers that aren't being used for something else, which I'd need if using HDMI). Marvellous! I will test it further, soon enough.

I might also need to not use a Mac keyboard, seeing as it doesn't have a Break key on it...
Spectribution: Dr. Jim's Sinclair computing pages.
Features my own programs, modified type-ins, RZXs, character sets & UDGs, and QL type-ins... so far!
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by zx81 »

akeley wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:44 pm
zx81 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:27 pm The ZX-Uno's Spectrum 48k core is basically correct, but the contended memory timings is wrong on all cores, all FPGA's I know. The 128k core isn't complete and the FPGA PLL can't generate the needed CPU freq. for the model (is off by 8 kHz). The +2a is the same core than 128k with the +2a ROMS.
How do contended memory timings affect accuracy? Could you give examples of software which does not work becasue of that?

It's the same for the 128K core, if they are meant in regard to MiSTer. I'm interested in perfecting these cores, so can ask questions about it but need some concrete examples of reproducible errors.
zx81 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:27 pm Anyway, the image quality is very poor, IMHO.
Both ZX Uno and MiSTer's IQ is 1:1 perfect when compared to my real ZX Spectrums - tried it side by side on CRT TVs. Could you be more specific?
The IR_Contention test don't runs correctly on any FPGA (excluded the Next, I know nothing about it). Many 128k cores runs at a lower speed freq (the ZX-Uno runs at 3.5 Mhz, not 3.5469 Mhz). Many demos (Paralactika, Mescaline, Tiratok, etc) runs bad or fails badly. I own a ZX-Uno, and I know the status on others FPGAs by users, not by my own tests. The Spectrum 48k implementation is a bit better, but far from perfect, IMHO.
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by cmal »

zx81 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:11 am
Pegaz wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:33 pm
I would just like to get rid of this buzzing sound, which we talked about earlier.
I don't know if you had time to investigate it, I just have this problem on each of my 3 pi models (2, 3, 3+) and I haven't been able to eliminate it, except using the old v2.0 version, which doesn't have a GPIO keyboard support.
However, BM has its advantages, such as precise emulation and the ability to easily connect the Spectrum keyboard and its also free.
I don't know which is the next equivalent variant, I guess ZX-Uno with twice the price than Pi, but also with greater potential for sure.
The new Next kickstarter is already around the corner, so everyone has something to choose for themselves...
The problem with the buzzing sound is that I can't reproduce it on my TVs. Could be that some TVs aren't happy with the 32 kHz sampling rate I use.

The ZX-Uno is dead. I own one, sleeping in his box. Nobody develops cores for it. Now, you can choose a MiSTer, Mistica or SiDi. But don't exist a FPGA core that his behaviour will be so precise as many software emulators. And nobody have enough motivation to enhance the cores. The most important core for MiSTer is NeoGeo.

The Next isn't for me, for less money I can have a MisTer with 128MB, I can live without his pretty keyboard.

Pegaz, not sure if I'm hearing the same buzzing sound as you, but I have a feeling it's something different. It's more of a few clicks that I sometimes hear after loading a tape. In some cases the virtual tape doesn't stop after the game has loaded and I have to press F8 to stop the tape. This doesn't bother me because you would have to stop a real tape connected to a real Spectrum anyway.
This was more prevalent on my Pi 2 than it is on the Pi 3 B+ that I'm using now. In fact now it so rarely happens that I don't notice it.

I agree with zx81 on halting development although I am admittedly disappointed. At the same time I do feel ZXBaremulator is "complete" in it's current state and offers a great and true to life emulation experience. I plan to continue using it as my main emulator.
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by cmal »

TMD2003 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:27 pm Well, it's working, even if I'm limited to using composite video (as I don't have any external speakers that aren't being used for something else, which I'd need if using HDMI). Marvellous! I will test it further, soon enough.

I might also need to not use a Mac keyboard, seeing as it doesn't have a Break key on it...
I got lucky on a pair of laptop speakers that plug straight into the Pi's 3.5 in socket, with the USB plugging into the Pi for power. They sound great on ZXBaremulator and are solidly constructed and can easily clip onto a small display. It also has volume control. I paid $15 on Amazon.
Here's the link if you're curious:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EH ... UTF8&psc=1
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Pegaz »

[mention]cmal[/mention]

Unfortunately, it’s a little worse than that.
In my case, it's an unpleasant buzzing sound of about five seconds each time I enter the F1 menu and go back to the emulation.
I have described this in more detail on page 3, in this thread.
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Pegaz »

zx81 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:22 pm
akeley wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:44 pm How do contended memory timings affect accuracy? Could you give examples of software which does not work becasue of that?

It's the same for the 128K core, if they are meant in regard to MiSTer. I'm interested in perfecting these cores, so can ask questions about it but need some concrete examples of reproducible errors.
Both ZX Uno and MiSTer's IQ is 1:1 perfect when compared to my real ZX Spectrums - tried it side by side on CRT TVs. Could you be more specific?
The IR_Contention test don't runs correctly on any FPGA (excluded the Next, I know nothing about it). Many 128k cores runs at a lower speed freq (the ZX-Uno runs at 3.5 Mhz, not 3.5469 Mhz). Many demos (Paralactika, Mescaline, Tiratok, etc) runs bad or fails badly. I own a ZX-Uno, and I know the status on others FPGAs by users, not by my own tests. The Spectrum 48k implementation is a bit better, but far from perfect, IMHO.
Can't find Paralactika demo in tap/tzx format, to test it on 128k models, I only have a trd version.
I saw in soime youtube video "paralactika_zx128" or something like that but the author did not leave a link.
Can you share some download link for that version, which you used when testing on 128k machines?
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by zx81 »

cmal wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:07 am
zx81 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:11 am The problem with the buzzing sound is that I can't reproduce it on my TVs. Could be that some TVs aren't happy with the 32 kHz sampling rate I use.

The ZX-Uno is dead. I own one, sleeping in his box. Nobody develops cores for it. Now, you can choose a MiSTer, Mistica or SiDi. But don't exist a FPGA core that his behaviour will be so precise as many software emulators. And nobody have enough motivation to enhance the cores. The most important core for MiSTer is NeoGeo.

The Next isn't for me, for less money I can have a MisTer with 128MB, I can live without his pretty keyboard.

Pegaz, not sure if I'm hearing the same buzzing sound as you, but I have a feeling it's something different. It's more of a few clicks that I sometimes hear after loading a tape. In some cases the virtual tape doesn't stop after the game has loaded and I have to press F8 to stop the tape. This doesn't bother me because you would have to stop a real tape connected to a real Spectrum anyway.
This was more prevalent on my Pi 2 than it is on the Pi 3 B+ that I'm using now. In fact now it so rarely happens that I don't notice it.

I agree with zx81 on halting development although I am admittedly disappointed. At the same time I do feel ZXBaremulator is "complete" in it's current state and offers a great and true to life emulation experience. I plan to continue using it as my main emulator.
The HDMI sound works differently than PWM sound. In PWM, the "metronome" is the sound (ZXB executes a frame, send the PWM sound using DMA and waits for the end of transfer). For HDMI, the metronome is a system interrupt, and any slight delay sending the samples produces a sound fault. I try to have the minimal samples on the fly, to reduce the sound lag. The samples are sended to VC4 using a mailbox, and is dependent of a very frequent polling of the VC4 answers, in periods lesser than 0.1 ms. As I'd said before, the CPU-0 executes many tasks using a cooperative scheduler. Sometimes, the scheduler comes too late, I fear.

I can't say how impact the firmware version to my program. The PI is a very strange and awful ARM architecture.

The TAP files don't have a "STOP TAPE" block as TZX have. And many TZX don't have a "STOP TAPE" block between different loads. I've modified many TZX to add such block.

In my initial wishes, I should add a tape browser, support for SAVE virtual tapes, load and save snapshots, +3 FDC & floppy emulation, configurable options to some features....

ZXB is far from complete, IMHO. But, have any sense to add it, when the users are starting to migrate to FPGA based systems?
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by zx81 »

akeley wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:44 pm Can't find Paralactika demo in tap/tzx format, to test it on 128k models, I only have a trd version.
I saw in soime youtube video "paralactika_zx128" or something like that but the author did not leave a link.
Can you share some download link for that version, which you used when testing on 128k machines?
Yes, I have, on my home. But I'm not at home today. Tomorrow afternoon, I'll put a link to it.
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Pegaz »

zx81 wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:07 pmZXB is far from complete, IMHO. But, have any sense to add it, when the users are starting to migrate to FPGA based systems?
Can’t speak on behalf of others, but I certainly won’t migrate and stop using BM.
I have been following your emulator from the beginning and I will always be a big fan of it, regardless of all the new fancy hardware achievements.
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Mort »

i have a next and still like the home made zxbaremetal machines almost as much. All i want is the option to save state my games etc and all would be fine by me :D
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Pegaz »

Today I continued testing BM 3.2 and found some rough solution how to avoid (mostly) that buzzing sound.
I noticed that after each reset with CTRL + Break, the buzzing stops and then I can enter the menu with F1, select the game and go back to the emulator, without that sound issue.
It’s not too elegant, but it’s the best I can do for now.
I also tried to replace bootcode.bin and fixup.dat from version v2.0 but that didn't help either.
Also, during testing, I noticed that the emulator boot almost two seconds faster, if there are no bcm2xxx *.dtb files on the sd card.
What is the purpose of these files and does their absence cause any problems, since I did not notice them during the brief testing?
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by zx81 »

Pegaz wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:32 pm Today I continued testing BM 3.2 and found some rough solution how to avoid (mostly) that buzzing sound.
I noticed that after each reset with CTRL + Break, the buzzing stops and then I can enter the menu with F1, select the game and go back to the emulator, without that sound issue.
It’s not too elegant, but it’s the best I can do for now.
I also tried to replace bootcode.bin and fixup.dat from version v2.0 but that didn't help either.
Also, during testing, I noticed that the emulator boot almost two seconds faster, if there are no bcm2xxx *.dtb files on the sd card.
What is the purpose of these files and does their absence cause any problems, since I did not notice them during the brief testing?
Beware, the fixup.dat needs his correct pair, start.elf. FYI, the start.elf is the image of an realtime OS named ThreadX. When this OS loads, only can access to 256MB RAM. The fixup.dat is used to patch the binary to relocate the OS to upper memory and access to all RAM memory.

In the PC world, ACPI serves to describe the hardware. In the ARM world, the (far away) equivalent are the DTB files. Without it, firmware don't know where are the memory mapped I/O ranges, the different devices present on board, etc. They are more than convenient to be present on the SD, or the firmware can't initialize it correctly.
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by zx81 »

zx81 wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:10 pm
akeley wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:44 pm Can't find Paralactika demo in tap/tzx format, to test it on 128k models, I only have a trd version.
I saw in soime youtube video "paralactika_zx128" or something like that but the author did not leave a link.
Can you share some download link for that version, which you used when testing on 128k machines?
Yes, I have, on my home. But I'm not at home today. Tomorrow afternoon, I'll put a link to it.
The promised link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjgnw6wxakxg8 ... s.zip?dl=0
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by rhester72 »

For what it's worth, I'm a US-based user who has never even seen a ZX Spectrum in real life, but was interested enough historically that I was overjoyed to find ZXBaremulator (being such a fan of BMC64).

It was compelling enough for me - even at a proper 50Hz, mind - that I ended up also buying the recreated keyboard (at EXTRAORDINARY expense, sheesh!) for a more authentic experience.

I also own a MiSTer, but when I want to get my Elite on, it's ZXBaremulator for me.

The only thing I'd sincerely wish for myself is the ability to save - by tape, save state, whatever. I've dearly wanted to go through a grand adventure like Bard's Tale, but obviously cannot do so in current state.

Whether there are any future updates or not, please know that you HAVE reached a larger community than you may believe, and we are still very much active users and fans! In fact, I registered just now only to tell you this! ;)

Thank you, zx81!
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Re: ZXBaremulator 3.2

Post by Magic Knight »

zx81 wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:07 pm ZXB is far from complete, IMHO. But, have any sense to add it, when the users are starting to migrate to FPGA based systems?
I have the Next, but I bought a +3A Pi today just to be able to use this emulator, and it's been a real treat. Aside from using the Pi Zero in my Next (that I installed only yesterday), I've never used a Pi before, so it took a while to figure out how to force sound out through the jack when using HDMI, and also how to get the ideal video setup, but it's working very, very well.

Growing up I only ever had a 48K Spectrum with tape recorder - no joysticks - so I don't mind not having too many extra features; 48K and 128K modes and the Multiface are good enough for me.

A great job, thank you so much!
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