World of Spectrum....

Y'know, other stuff, Sinclair related.
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Rorthron
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Rorthron » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:03 am

fogartylee wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:48 am
Unless you have access to the FB admins group then you have no idea of what discussions happened or didn't happen.
There was extensive public discussion of this matter in the WoS forums, during which you had every opportunity to raise any relevant matters.
fogartylee wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:48 am
I was warned by several people in advance that it would be a mistake to aid Einar but chose to ignore the warnings.
So do you now consider the creation of ZXDB "a mistake"? If so, why?

You seem to have made no reponse on my other points.
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fogartylee
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by fogartylee » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:33 am

Martijn was working 35hrs a week on top of a full time job because he was the only one that could update the database and move the files. Most of the holidays he took to catch up on infoseek updates, and when he did go away there was often server problems. Added to that, many years ago he wanted to close the forums because they were more hassle than they were worth. At that point he practically left the forums and handed over admin to me, and we took on new moderators.

So, when he announced privately he was leaving, it was decided it would no longer be a one-man job. A system has been put into place that means anyone can be added to the team and maintain their own part of the site without worrying about breaking other parts or losing data. Files can be maintained without the need for FTP, etc...

It was also known to people working on the data and testing the scripts that the database would be rapidly increasing with a lot more information. It's not practical to use ZXDB with that amount of data - or any site via SQL statements. I can't remember the last time I looked at the new WoS database because it's created by the system as we add new modules, and with correct permissions in the admin can have new fields added or existing ones changed as needed. Einar also knew this, so when he was publicly asking for the database schema, he knew full well those modules hadn't been completed yet, and therefore there was no schema.

What you have now is exactly where Martijn was - one person performing updates, and to update the website you need to run the SQL statements. That's fine. But Einar always stated that once WoS is finished he has no intention of keeping ZXDB going. Has that changed? Who is taking over? And again you have one person maintaining the data - and in this case several sites.

What happens if archive.org receive copyright complaints? Will they argue their case, or disable the WoS files? Files which they are happy to advertise as WoS backup without actually having permission to host them. Are they going to spend hours on the phone speaking to copyright holders, or visiting them personally, as I have done? I doubt it.
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balford
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by balford » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:46 am

May I be the first to call 'Bollocks'.

Really Lee, you're insulting people's intelligence here.

You're a chancer, spoofer, and whatever other adjective suits a person who takes on a project way above their capability level.

The best thing you could do is to hand over WoS to a more capable team of people who can do it justice. However, your ego won't let you do that.
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Fixing ZX Spectrums in the 21st Century
https://github.com/brendanalford/zx-diagnostics

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RMartins
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by RMartins » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:18 am

If you @fogartylee are able to step out of your own private world, that virtual shell you live in, and take an honest look of all you have been writing, you might be surprised of how it sounds like.

Click on "number of posts" link, on the right, of one of your messages.
Your first message on this forum, was an attack ... and all others followed the same pattern.

You keep on attacking people, always pledging for the injustice, the betrayal of your poor working righteous self, like if the world is against you.
It's the other way around, you are going against the world!

Your actions, and toxic/oppressive behaviour, led to this.
You were living an illusion, the dream ended.

The community does not want to abandon, WOS.
The vast majority just came to the conclusion that we do not want to participate in WOS with you at the helm.

The problem is not WOS, it's the "type of management" being enforced in WOS.

So you replaced the Admins/moderators ... sure, that solves the problem, right ?
Is that why you are here attacking the people you blame of your misfortune ?

Notice that I wrote "your" and not WOS misfortune.
You take this too personaly.

No one, is rejecting, that somewhere in time, you were useful to the preservation of the community, and that you eventually contributed in a positive way, in the past. But it's just not true anymore.

If you think this through, what is your goal, with these bursts of accusations/comments ?

Are you expecting us to go back to WOS, with you as admin ?
Are you trying to convince us you are not responsible for the toxic/oppressing place WOS forum as become ?

You have to learn to let go, to know when you have failed, to admit it to yourself (not to us), and move on.

You wanted to leave.
So why did you stay ?
What kept you as admin ?

You seriously need professional help, to manage your insecurities and lack of purpose, if you are not WOS admin.
Because this is all it boils down to.

You feel abandoned by the community.
When in fact, it was you who ostracized the community ...

Hopefully this message will ground you to hearth again, and make you rethink your life.

I wish I could help you, but I don't know how.
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R-Tape
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by R-Tape » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:34 am

balford wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:46 am
May I be the first to call 'Bollocks'.

Really Lee, you're insulting people's intelligence here.

You're a chancer, spoofer, and whatever other adjective suits a person who takes on a project way above their capability level.

The best thing you could do is to hand over WoS to a more capable team of people who can do it justice. However, your ego won't let you do that.
Just in case things are hotting up. While I'm flabbergasted by some of his posts can we be sure we don't resort to insults. Don't give anyone a reason to hit the report post button.
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:00 am

@Whacker post
Use these links:
http://live.worldofspectrum.org
https://www.creative-spectrum.co.uk

@ everyone who is hurling mud around the place. The unfounded accusations and bad language are not needed.
The WoS forum has a team of moderators (or administrators if you prefer that term). It is the moderator team that carry out the day to day moderation of the forum.

In other forums about 1980's and 1990's computers, the behaviour demonstrated here by members having a go at WoS administrators and moderators would not be tolerated. You would be receiving warnings and if these were ignored, then you would be banned.

So I would appreciate it if you can keep the discussion civil.

Mark
Last edited by 1024MAK on Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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gazaxian
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by gazaxian » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:22 am

fogartylee wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:41 pm
You do know the URL you posted is wrong?

I *think* I've fixed the leeching bug. I'm sure someone will let me know if I haven't....

The access to WoS data is far more & a lot easier than it was before. If anything, the walls are being knocked down.
Hey Lee

The best way to make WoS data easier to access is making it freely available to anyone. So why don't you do that?

It wouldn't mean ending you work on WoS, would show a real commitment to opening up the archive and go some way to repairing the terrible damage done to both Wos and your reputation.

Unfortunately, we've got to a point where it's near impossible for anything you say to be taken seriously. Realistically, you're only going to be judged on your actions so it's time to act.

I've got to admit I'm not optimistic. Your claims smack of Kim Jong-Il levels of desperation to cling onto power though instead of the threat of nuclear Armageddon we're under the Damocles sword of some Popular Computing Weekly scans going unseen.

While I've got your attention can you remove my email address from the WoS database? Getting banned for expressing concerns about the Vega you later confirmed as accurate is a bit galling though bearable.

Getting cack handed spam from you after that banning is a bit much though.
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by gazaxian » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:20 am

1024MAK wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:00 am
@Whacker post
Use these links:
http://live.worldofspectrum.org
https://www.creative-spectrum.co.uk

@ everyone who is hurling mud around the place. The unfounded accusations and bad language are not needed.
The WoS forum has a team of moderators (or administrators if you prefer that term). It is the moderator team that carry out the day to day moderation of the forum.

In other forums about 1980's and 1990's computers, the behaviour demonstrated here by members having a go at WoS administrators and moderators would not be tolerated. You would be receiving warnings and if these were ignored, then you would be banned.

So I would appreciate it if you can keep the discussion civil.

Mark
To be fair Mark you've accused people of out and out lying or being blind sheep in this thread.

I don't think that should result in a warning or a ban for yourself but the quid pro quo here is you shouldn't be so intolerant of other people expressing their opinions in a similar manner.
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Mike Davies
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Mike Davies » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:19 am

fogartylee wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:33 am
What you have now is exactly where Martijn was - one person performing updates, and to update the website you need to run the SQL statements. That's fine. But Einar always stated that once WoS is finished he has no intention of keeping ZXDB going. Has that changed? Who is taking over? And again you have one person maintaining the data - and in this case several sites.
SQL isn't an arcane system or language. It's generally known by a large number of developers, and it's basic enough of a structure that third-party tools can be produced, or even are available, to import, export, and modify data in that format. This is what openness looks like.

Maybe JSON is a more flexible data format, but using SQL hasn't prevented ZXDB sites from using non-SQL options for storage, take for example Thomas Kolbeck's ZX Info: http://sinclair.kolbeck.dk/home -- it's using ElasticSearch, which isn't an SQL engine. (And his source code is publicly available so any developer can checkout a copy and do the same thing). This is what openness looks like.

If Einar decides to stop working on ZXDB, anyone can take the latest snapshot and continue from there. Einar has solved the actual problem here, of not having the entire dataset reliant on a single person. Anyone who is interested can continue, either alone or collaborating with others, to keep updates flowing. That's what openness looks like.

fogartylee wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:33 am
What happens if archive.org receive copyright complaints?
The Internet Archive has a long history of archiving material in a number of industries. It's more likely World of Spectrum will crumble in the face of copyright threats before The Internet Archive does.
fogartylee wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:33 am
What happens if archive.org receive copyright complaints? Will they argue their case, or disable the WoS files? Files which they are happy to advertise as WoS backup without actually having permission to host them.
Interesting. Are you saying no-one from the WorldOfSpectrum website got contacted by The Internet Archive, and no-one from WorldOfSpectrum gave permission, or assisted in anyway in The Internet Archive getting hold of a WoS backup?
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Rorthron
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Rorthron » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:34 am

fogartylee wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:33 am
Martijn was working 35hrs a week on top of a full time job because he was the only one that could update the database and move the files. Most of the holidays he took to catch up on infoseek updates, and when he did go away there was often server problems. Added to that, many years ago he wanted to close the forums because they were more hassle than they were worth. At that point he practically left the forums and handed over admin to me, and we took on new moderators.

So, when he announced privately he was leaving, it was decided it would no longer be a one-man job. A system has been put into place that means anyone can be added to the team and maintain their own part of the site without worrying about breaking other parts or losing data. Files can be maintained without the need for FTP, etc...

It was also known to people working on the data and testing the scripts that the database would be rapidly increasing with a lot more information. It's not practical to use ZXDB with that amount of data - or any site via SQL statements. I can't remember the last time I looked at the new WoS database because it's created by the system as we add new modules, and with correct permissions in the admin can have new fields added or existing ones changed as needed. Einar also knew this, so when he was publicly asking for the database schema, he knew full well those modules hadn't been completed yet, and therefore there was no schema.

What you have now is exactly where Martijn was - one person performing updates, and to update the website you need to run the SQL statements. That's fine. But Einar always stated that once WoS is finished he has no intention of keeping ZXDB going. Has that changed? Who is taking over? And again you have one person maintaining the data - and in this case several sites.

What happens if archive.org receive copyright complaints? Will they argue their case, or disable the WoS files? Files which they are happy to advertise as WoS backup without actually having permission to host them. Are they going to spend hours on the phone speaking to copyright holders, or visiting them personally, as I have done? I doubt it.
Lee, none of this has anything to do with the preceding discussion, for example, the blocking of ZXDB and Spectrum Computing, and the allegations you seem to be making against Einar.

You again seem not to have responded to any of my points.
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