World of Spectrum....

Y'know, other stuff, Sinclair related.
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Mike Davies
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Mike Davies » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:21 pm

EdwardCatflap wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:35 am
Lee, I think it’s best for WOS and the Spectrum Community on a whole is if you give up WOS (or close it) and just leave the ‘scene’.
That's not correct. Lee can keep WoS as his own personal fiefdom. The problem is having such a person, who has lost/thrown away the respect and credibility of large chunks of the Spectrum community as the sole gatekeeper of Spectrum content archives, where he can keep using his control to cut out people in the community he dislikes. That's now a solved problem - he doesn't control ZXDB.

The Spectrum Computing site, and ZXDB underneath have succeeded in creating a means of contributing that isn't impaired or controlled by this one gatekeeper. I'd urge you, instead of demanding that Lee leave, double down and contribute to Spectrum Computing and ZXDB, support those avenues as best you can. There is nothing Lee can do to interfere with the ZXDB dataset. His main ambition seems to be to duplicate a large chunk of work that's already available for free in ZXDB -- that's his choice. As Napolean once said, "Never interrupt an enemy when he is making a mistake".
EdwardCatflap wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:35 am
Do the decent thing, just give it (WOS) up to someone who cares deeply for the Community or close it and let this site take over and get the scene back to what it was, nice friendly community chat about the ZX Spectrum and all things Sinclair related.
This site -- and ZXDB -- doesn't need Lee's permission to be the community website for the ZX Spectrum. This site has to earn that level of respect from the Spectrum community, one person at a time. That's what Martijn had to do when he built the World of Spectrum.

If Lee (or his "team") was interested in collaboration, and avoiding duplicate effort, and taking advantage of titles that don't exist in WoS currently, he/they could collaborate as equals, and feed in corrections and updates back into ZXDB. Lee doesn't control ZXDB. ZXDB is open, and available for anyone to use, and so far I've not seen a single example of it's creator and curator saying to any site that they can't use ZXDB -- much the opposite, to Einar's credit.
Last edited by Mike Davies on Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike Davies
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Mike Davies » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:28 pm

R-Tape wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:17 pm
That's my hope for the place too, and if in a few weeks our most active thread is still the World of Spectrum then we have a problem.
If the thread continues to surface concerns about what the community loses if WoS disappears (e.g. the decade old and useful content hidden away deep inside the forum), that gives us time to mitigate these concerns. Community-wise that is a good thing.

The community has achieved much since August last year in safeguarding the archive from a possible WoS demise, to the point that we are no longer beholden to whomever hold the reigns. That is progress.
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Morkin
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Morkin » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:50 pm

Sokurah wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:47 am
By all means - nuke the Chit Chat section - that's worthless anyway ... but there's a lot of useful information on that forum, that it would be a damn shame to not have access to anymore.
Oi..! There's a lot of valuable culinary information in that forum that needs preserving... In the future who knows when someone might want to make a study on the unhealthy diets of middle age Spectrum owners... :lol:
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Juan F. Ramirez
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Juan F. Ramirez » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:09 pm

Morkin wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:50 pm
Sokurah wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:47 am
By all means - nuke the Chit Chat section - that's worthless anyway ... but there's a lot of useful information on that forum, that it would be a damn shame to not have access to anymore.
Oi..! There's a lot of valuable culinary information in that forum that needs preserving... In the future who knows when someone might want to make a study on the unhealthy diets of middle age Spectrum owners... :lol:
Absolutely agree man! :mrgreen:
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Nomad
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Nomad » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:56 am

Morkin wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:50 pm
Sokurah wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:47 am
By all means - nuke the Chit Chat section - that's worthless anyway ... but there's a lot of useful information on that forum, that it would be a damn shame to not have access to anymore.
Oi..! There's a lot of valuable culinary information in that forum that needs preserving... In the future who knows when someone might want to make a study on the unhealthy diets of middle age Spectrum owners... :lol:
That is the thing, people today can't know what the interests of the future fellows are in the past. With the preservation stuff I was always surprised things I didn't even think about at the time (tape inlays), promo stuff. Sure I think everyone knew to hang on to the games but the utilities? That is becoming a centre for study (in Atari personal computers, they have a whole podcast dedicated to productivity tools :) )

With storage space being cheap now (and getting cheaper) probably just best to gobble as much as possible and leave it to the future to decide what they want or don't want to look at lol.
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EdwardCatflap
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by EdwardCatflap » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:01 am

R-Tape wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:41 am
What do you really expect to achieve with that post? You've probably already said this to him/about him all over social media. If you think Lee should be held to account then do it over at WoS.

Any more attacks and you make SC look bad. Please stop it.
Attacks? Ok, apart from LOL, I’m just saying what a majority of the Spectrum scene think. Have you been following the Vega debacle? The personal attacks? The legal threats? The ‘Ive seen the Zx Vega in production claims’

Heck, the fact that 5 people have liked this compared to 2 that have liked your reply suggests that at least in this thread I’m not alone.

It does not make SC look bad at all, in fact it’s nice to hopefully have the ability to post an opinion rather than it being deleted and being banned (which would happen on WOS by Lee ‘I am always right’ Fogarty)

Anyone remember the Your Sinclair Rock and Roll years by the way?

Maybe the Zx Shed?

Have a look at the zxvega tag on twitter. It’s very interesting.

Oh, and this speaks volumes...


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R-Tape
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by R-Tape » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:36 am

I am aware of the stuff you mention and I’m not necessarily saying that I disagree with you. Please consider this from our point of view, we're not saying WoS can't be discussed but we can’t have a thread with people falling over themselves to take pot shots at someone from another site (who is probably sat back laughing his cock off that SC is having to deal with it). The only thing it achieves is giving the mods here more reported posts to deal with.

You’ve got your bee sting in (did it make him stand down?), now I hope you’ll leave it at that.
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Einar Saukas
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Einar Saukas » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:45 pm

My apologies for the late replies. I'm currently on vacation without regular Internet access these days, so it will take me a while to answer all posts targeted at me in this thread...

1024MAK wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:05 pm
Einar Saukas wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:41 pm
That's exactly what we are all working to prevent!
Funny, I thought your objective was simply to maintain a database.
Correct. ZXDB is "simply" a database created with the objective of preserving WoS archive data. It started at the time Lee decided to quit and there was no replacement plan.

Likewise, SC and ZXInfo are "simply" archive front-ends. Archive.org is "simply" a repository, that stores the WoS archive mirror. SC forum is "simply" a forum.

Those are separate initiatives by different people that independently work to achieve a common goal: to preserve the valuable information that WoS provided.

1024MAK wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:05 pm
First off, it's rare that Archive.org captures all publicity available data. Second, it's even less likely to capture non-publicly available data, or get pages/data if there are broken links. So when did Archive.org crawl WoS? When WoS was not being maintained by Martijn or more recently?
It doesn't really matter since WoS archive content hasn't changed in the last 5 years. I just know these files were certainly copied before December 2016 because they don't have this problem.

1024MAK wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:05 pm
Please also note that Archive.org is just as venerable to server or hard drive failure as any other site. Earlier this year, I could not access a site archived on Archive.org due to a system failure. I don't know if this was a temporary failure or something else.
Earlier last month (Nov 9th) I could not access parts of WoS either, due to a system failure. Are you trying to argue that Archive.org is less reliable than WoS?

1024MAK wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:05 pm
SpectrumComputing only has a fraction of copyright holders permissions compared to WoS.
Obviously. All permissions for titles currently distributed by WoS were obtained on 2 decades of work under Martijn management.

However notice that, since Martijn left, WoS has been loosing permissions (such as System 3) and SC has been acquiring permissions (such as Zenobi).

1024MAK wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:05 pm
If everyone really values the online archive and Sinclair computer internet presence, then you should support all web sites that are about the Sinclair computers (ZX80, ZX81, ZX Spectrum etc) including WoS.
I'm glad we agree on something!

For exactly this reason, ZXDB has maintained and updated all site integrations from the original WoS Infoseek (Tipshop, Spectrum 2.0, CrashOnline, Lemon64, etc) and added new ones (RZX Archive, ZX-Art, Speccy Screenshot Maps, ZX81Stuff, CASA, Mobygames, etc). Most of these sites now provide links to corresponding pages at SC/ZXInfo and vice-versa. Moreover every game webpage at SC gives a link to both ZXInfo and WoS, and every game webpage at ZXInfo gives a link to both SC and WoS.

We are all following Martijn's philosophy on supporting all other sites. It's unfortunate that WoS doesn't believe on this idea anymore.

1024MAK wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:05 pm
The infighting that has happened in recent times helps no one. So let's see some community spirit and goodwill for the New Year ;-)
Within the spirit of New Year goodwill, I would like to reiterate my offer to help new WoS on converting, fixing and organizing the entire content of old WoS archive. Although that's work already done in ZXDB, I volunteer to import all this content into new WoS, into whatever format or database schema is needed.

1024MAK wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:05 pm
And there are a number of other Sinclair computers web sites that would love more support ;)
If you can suggest any other Sinclair computers web site that ZXDB doesn't support yet, please let me know. I would like to support them all!
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Einar Saukas
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Einar Saukas » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:47 pm

fogartylee wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:56 pm
There's videos, loads of additional files for publishers, people, etc., the denied titles, books, denied magazines, hi-res inlays & numerous other documents.
These are files that Martijn decided to keep out of WoS archive. Either to save bandwidth (like hi-res inlays) or because distribution was denied.

The non-denied part of this material could be added to ZXDB now.
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EdwardCatflap
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by EdwardCatflap » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:54 pm

R-Tape wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:36 am
I am aware of the stuff you mention and I’m not necessarily saying that I disagree with you. Please consider this from our point of view, we're not saying WoS can't be discussed but we can’t have a thread with people falling over themselves to take pot shots at someone from another site (who is probably sat back laughing his cock off that SC is having to deal with it). The only thing it achieves is giving the mods here more reported posts to deal with.

You’ve got your bee sting in (did it make him stand down?), now I hope you’ll leave it at that.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to give him any more attention than he always appears to seek. I’ve said what I wanted to say and feel it needed to be said. I personally feel there is too much ‘walking on eggshells’ when it comes to him and WOS, hence my post.

I also fully appreciate the fact I can post such a comment here.

Of course he won’t stand down, mores the pity.
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