World of Spectrum....

Y'know, other stuff, Sinclair related.
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Mike Davies
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Mike Davies » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:08 pm

It took Einar a month to convert Martjin's "custom format" to a relational database import. And it took a few weeks for Spectrum Computing to emerge from that. A year after Einar started, and ZXDB is being actively updated, new features and content being brought it. It's ticking along quite smoothly.

The delays of the replacement WoS aren't caused by criticism, they are caused by the technical decision to build a CMS from scratch. It's a classic boil the ocean mistake. That's then compounded by alienating developers who have the skills and expertise to contribute. What's left is one guy, trying to build an ivory tower solution, plodding along, discouraged every step of the way because there's no visible progress. While all the people who can help on the content side waiting for this CMS to materialise so they can finally start adding in the existing content, that's now 2-3 years out of date.

Einar has shown the more practical and agile path, export the data into a database. Allow people to build a websites on top of that database. Hey presto, an actively maintained catalogue that can be perused by anyone, who can then channel corrections and updates that get added to the database. If a CMS is indeed required, it can be built on the other side of the database, as a backend. That's a great example of technical architecture, deferring the decision about what CMS to use, and then finding out you have a minimal viable product that's actually giving value to users without even dealing with the CMS question.

Fogarty chose the big-bang approach, Einar took the iterative path.
Last edited by Mike Davies on Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ToonTeddy
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by ToonTeddy » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:10 pm

I think a lot of it comes from people blaming Lee for a lot of the Vega+ problems, he's an easy target as he's there on the FB Wos page and on the WOS forums. The other two people who are actually involved (although very slowly) in the Vega+ are harder to reach. And as we all know, it's easy to be a 'keyboard warrior' and hide behind a made up name.

I love George's video's on youtube they're entertaining but I would like to see both him and Lee sit down and have an honest and brutal chat about what's been going on.

I'm no one just a speccy fan who's sad about all this nonsense and I would be devastated if any archive of WOS of any other speccy related documents vanished from the internet.
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1024MAK
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:31 pm

@Mike Davies - I'm not here to defend Lee. That he can do himself. Einar has indeed done a lot of good work. As has Peter.
I could build a car in a month, but it would not be the same as one designed over many years by a professional vehicle manufacturer and build in a purpose designed factory. Until Lee has got the new WoS to say 90% of what he set out to do, it's rather too early to properly judge the situation. Also please note I am not having a dig at anyone, and I am most certainly not comparing web sites with cars. I'm just saying that there are different routes.

The original WoS site appears to have been build using a number of off-the-shelf software packages that were then glued together with custom code. That sounds like it was a right pain to maintain. Can you blame anyone for trying to avoid such a system?

Anyway, I think most users will have had enough of this subject. We need to look forward to the future. I for one think that having more than one site for a popular computer like the Spectrum is a good thing.

Mark
Last edited by 1024MAK on Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Hikaru » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:34 pm

Well, personally I'm just glad the people at SC have put the final missing piece in. It's probably OK to covertly hope 'dat old WoS spirit' will live on in the end. :)
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Mike Davies
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Mike Davies » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:50 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:31 pm
The original WoS site appears to have been build using a number of off-the-shelf software packages that were then glued together with custom code. That sounds like it was a right pain to maintain. Can you blame anyone for trying to avoid such a system?
Both Fogarty and Einar started from the same position, Martjin's data. Except Fogarty has had a 3 year head start.

There's nothing unprofessional about agile development and iterative releases, this is how the Web development world works.
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1024MAK
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:32 pm

Mike Davies wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:50 pm
1024MAK wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:31 pm
The original WoS site appears to have been build using a number of off-the-shelf software packages that were then glued together with custom code. That sounds like it was a right pain to maintain. Can you blame anyone for trying to avoid such a system?
Both Fogarty and Einar started from the same position, Martjin's data. Except Fogarty has had a 3 year head start.

There's nothing unprofessional about agile development and iterative releases, this is how the Web development world works.
Einar has not built a web site. And even I could grab the data from WoS and populate a database. That's not the issue. It was never the issue.
What Lee, Einar and Peter are doing are all different things.

Both Einar and Peter have said that what they are doing is to provide something that is an alternative to WoS, not to replace it. Therefore it is not the SAME.

@Mike Davies - If you are so confident, write a Spectrum game for me in three days that is a proper playable game. Should be simple for you. The Spectrum is a simple computer simple compared to a modern server running a full featured web site.

Mark
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1024MAK
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:42 pm

For anyone who is not blinded by the large amounts of misinformation, rumours, wild speculation and in some cases, down right lies, I wish to point out that there are as usual precious few actual facts. On that basis, I refuse to follow a pack of blind sheep.

People, please open your eyes. Keep an open mind. Question what people say. Not just comments from people who you don't think you can trust, but also those who may be stirring up trouble. It is in no true Spectrum enthusiasts interest for a war to break out.

Would the Spectrum world really be a better place if hate and anger caused so much friction that a web site devoted to the Spectrum was forced to close, or to wither away and die?

I support both WoS and I also support the efforts of both Einar and Peter.

Mark
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Pegaz
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Pegaz » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:14 pm

You're right Mark, but some things have happened and the least we can expect is an explanation.
Closing two good threads (ZXDB and SC), as well as the censorship of the spectrumcomputing website is shameful and can not be justified, in any way.
How do you expect us to react, if people are banning without valid reason and presented evidence (e.g. RMartens), forbid the discussion on the Vega+ console, constant restrictions, threats and prohibitions on the front page of the site.
All I wanted to ask, I did it right there on wos, but instead of answering, we only received a deafening silence and total ignorance.
Do you have an explanation for such behavior?
Perhaps we should all blindly and silently accept any such decision, without any questions or clarifications.
Sorry, but I cant.
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Mike Davies
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Mike Davies » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:44 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:32 pm
@Mike Davies - If you are so confident, write a Spectrum game for me in three days that is a proper playable game. Should be simple for you. The Spectrum is a simple computer simple compared to a modern server running a full featured web site.
This is bizarre, what's that supposed to prove? My expertise is in architecting and building web sites and web applications, not Spectrum games. The skills are not readily transferrable since there is a substantial difference in abstraction levels.
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1024MAK
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:24 pm

Pegaz wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:14 pm
You're right Mark, but some things have happened and the least we can expect is an explanation.
Closing two good threads (ZXDB and SC), as well as the censorship of the spectrumcomputing website is shameful and can not be justified, in any way.
How do you expect us to react, if people are banning without valid reason and presented evidence (e.g. RMartens), forbid the discussion on the Vega+ console, constant restrictions, threats and prohibitions on the front page of the site.
All I wanted to ask, I did it right there on wos, but instead of answering, we only received a deafening silence and total ignorance.
Do you have an explanation for such behavior?
Perhaps we should all blindly and silently accept any such decision, without any questions or clarifications.
Sorry, but I cant.
Yes, someone is messing about. I don't know who locked the threads. One (Database model ZXDB) is currently not locked or closed. And I don't know if/what happened with the filters, but today I found that I could post "ZXDB" without problems. And I also don't know what was locked/closed earlier, or what "words" were unable to be posted.

Of course members should question when things do not seem right. Of course you should not blindly and silently accept any attempted censorship.

But at the same time, you should be careful that you don't get drawn to the wrong conclusions. Be careful not to blindly follow misinformation. Humans should be able to think for themselves and not act like "sheep".

It's only a short time since Lee restored the forums after a failure. And why would it be in Lee's interest to upset everyone? If most of the members currently on WoS forum leave, WoS forum will die a slow death. I don't think anyone wants that. Do you think Lee wants that?

At the same time, we already know that some people do want that. And no, I am not blaming them for what happened. But you never know who anyone is in a new forum like this one.

Something strange is going on. All I am saying, is open your eyes. Don't get hoodwinked.

Mark
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