World of Spectrum....

Y'know, other stuff, Sinclair related.
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1024MAK
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:39 pm

Mike Davies wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:44 pm
1024MAK wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:32 pm
@Mike Davies - If you are so confident, write a Spectrum game for me in three days that is a proper playable game. Should be simple for you. The Spectrum is a simple computer simple compared to a modern server running a full featured web site.
This is bizarre, what's that supposed to prove? My expertise is in architecting and building web sites and web applications, not Spectrum games. The skills are not readily transferrable since there is a substantial difference in abstraction levels.
Ahh, so there is the problem. You say that your "expertise is in architecting and building web sites and web applications". But that is something that I cannot judge you on. I just have your word. At the moment, there are plenty of words flying around, with very little substance, let alone actual facts. So word alone is not enough if you just post up comments knocking others. Especially if you yourself may not have all the relevant information. And your earlier comments lead me to think that its possible that you may not have all the relevant information. Hence my comments.

So if you don't write Spectrum games, do you play games on a Spectrum? Which is your favourite game? And what is your current high score in this Spectrum game?

Mark
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Pegaz » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:00 pm

I'm not a mind reader Mark and I dont know what anyone wants or what intentions are.
That's why many of us have been looking for an explanation of the past days, but we didnt get it.
Just a wall of silence.
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Hikaru » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:06 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:24 pm
Humans should be able to think for themselves and not act like "sheep".
Humans should possess something called 'common sense'.
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:25 pm

Pegaz wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:00 pm
I'm not a mind reader Mark and I dont know what anyone wants or what intentions are.
That's why many of us have been looking for an explanation of the past days, but we didnt get it.
Just a wall of silence.
All I know is that Lee said this:
Lee Fogarty wrote:Due to a failure within the WoS Admin team, it has been decided that all forum moderators are standing down to allow for new people to step in. I'd like to thank the team for their efforts over the last few years, and they will continue to contribute to WoS and the new site as before.
(link)

So it is possible that one of the WoS team was responsible for the thread locking/closure etc.

Lee tells me that he has reverted the changes, so the locked/closed threads are no longer locked/closed etc.

I don't know who was responsible. But I do know that whatever happens, if people don't like it, Lee will get the blame.

Mark
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Mike Davies » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:31 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:39 pm
Ahh, so there is the problem. You say that your "expertise is in architecting and building web sites and web applications". But that is something that I cannot judge you on. I just have your word.
Google is your friend. LinkedIn is also your friend.

1024MAK wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:39 pm
At the moment, there are plenty of words flying around, with very little substance, let alone actual facts. So word alone is not enough if you just post up comments knocking others. Especially if you yourself may not have all the relevant information. And your earlier comments lead me to think that its possible that you may not have all the relevant information. Hence my comments.
You should probably follow your own advice. Present this relevant information that you think others don't have that's material. These implications and hand-waving appeals to the unknown are discourteous and not conducive to moving the conversation forward.
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:06 pm

Mike Davies wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:31 pm
1024MAK wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:39 pm
At the moment, there are plenty of words flying around, with very little substance, let alone actual facts. So word alone is not enough if you just post up comments knocking others. Especially if you yourself may not have all the relevant information. And your earlier comments lead me to think that its possible that you may not have all the relevant information. Hence my comments.
You should probably follow your own advice. Present this relevant information that you think others don't have that's material. These implications and hand-waving appeals to the unknown are discourteous and not conducive to moving the conversation forward.
All the information on WoS that I have referred to is already available on WoS or it's forums. Or was in the now discontinued Wikipedia page on WoS. Or is available on other public sites (like the internet archive).

Lee has already said that he helped Einar with the WoS data. So Einar did start ZXDB from scratch, but he did have help with the WoS data and it's format. He has also had help from other people I believe (although to be honest, I have not followed his every step, so I don't know any details).

When Lee took over WoS, WoS was already in trouble (lack of updates, forum software faults and server problems). As Martjin was not spending much time on it any-more. If you can find them, within WoS forums there are gaps in time due to the forums or the whole site going off-line. This happened multiple times (and no, I did not record the details). Then WoS crashed off-line completely. Lee did what he could and he got something back-up.

If you were tasked with recovering and rebuilding an entire large web site, that was using a mishmash of old obsolete software glued together with custom code, how would you do it?

And keep in mind that Lee wants members of WoS to help maintain the site. He does not want to do everything himself (see the developing magazine area). There are also threads on WoS forums about new scans for this magazine section. Many members have helped with this. He wants the same with the books and the software.

Whoever took on the WoS site was going to have a lot of work to do.

In hindsight, maybe some things could have been done differently. I don't know. I'm just a normal member/user. But please don't knock the guy for taking on such a project after he has put a lot of work into it. And of course, WoS is free. No one pays to use the site. And there are no adverts either.

Mark
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Ivanzx » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:18 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:26 pm
Has it been slower than anyone would have liked? Yes. But the fact is, WoS is still there. At least someone saved it, and is still working on it.

Meanwhile, how many other sites about 1980s and 1990s computers have disappeared without much trace?

Mark
I apreciate a lot your posts in WoS, so I will try to be also very positive :)

That is the biggest mistake when talking about WoS fall. Yes, Lee took over the page in that moment but we all know that if he had not, there were plenty of people willing to have done the same, including teams of people full of passion and knowledge. I mean, Lee "saved it", but I am quite sure many other people would have done the same, for free and putting unbelievable amounts of hours of work too, but never were given the opportunity :(
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by richl » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:28 pm

Sorry, Mark, but the "Lee pays for the server" thing isn't really a good argument and it certainly isn't an excuse for some of the unforgiveable things he's done recently. People have offered to pay for hosting but Lee wasn't interested. Besides which, it's hosted on the same server that he's got his paying clients' sites on, right? And how do you actually know how much work he's put into the site? Everything has been kept top secret so that in terms of things that are actually verifiably true, all we can say for certain is that the main site is more broken than it used to be and that the new one is very much unfinished. I'd also dispute your assertion that he wants members of WoS to help him maintain the site. He's actively refused help on many occasions, as a matter of fact. He also doesn't like members of the community asking him questions either. With regard to the magazines section you mention, that's all the work of one seriously dedicated guy doing all the scanning because he wants to give to the community as a whole. Lee's got naff all to do with it.

Anyway, what were you saying about keeping an open mind?
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by 1024MAK » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:37 am

richl wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:28 pm
Sorry, Mark, but the "Lee pays for the server" thing isn't really a good argument and it certainly isn't an excuse for some of the unforgiveable things he's done recently. People have offered to pay for hosting but Lee wasn't interested. Besides which, it's hosted on the same server that he's got his paying clients' sites on, right? And how do you actually know how much work he's put into the site? Everything has been kept top secret so that in terms of things that are actually verifiably true, all we can say for certain is that the main site is more broken than it used to be and that the new one is very much unfinished. I'd also dispute your assertion that he wants members of WoS to help him maintain the site. He's actively refused help on many occasions, as a matter of fact. He also doesn't like members of the community asking him questions either. With regard to the magazines section you mention, that's all the work of one seriously dedicated guy doing all the scanning because he wants to give to the community as a whole. Lee's got naff all to do with it.

Anyway, what were you saying about keeping an open mind?
As I said earlier, I'm not here to defend Lee. But I question your motives. You ask questions and make statements. So I challenge you on those points.

My interest is in keeping a useful resource online. I want WoS to stay online. Why, well because I find WoS a useful site. Enough web sites about 1980s and 1990s computers have gone off line already.

Excuse me, but I never said "Lee pays for the server". WoS was free and is still free.

Further, there are forums and websites where the owner/operator does ask for money towards running the site. In actual fact, I have donated money to this very site. How much have you donated?

And here we go again. What has Lee done? No, I don't want a list of what you think he has done. I want a list of what you know, beyond reasonable doubt, that he has done. There is too much misinformation going on. Did you never get detention at school because someone in your class did something. As the teacher did not know who, the whole class got detention. That's what I see here. Blame being thrown around. At work once, my team got the blame for damage to a car owned by one of the high level managers (we were the only staff in the building at the time). But when the management reviewed the CCTV of the car park, no one was seen. A wheeled bin was however seen to move. So the cause was a gust of wind.The manager never said sorry to us.

But WoS is Lee's site you will say. Funny that, because elsewhere you want it to be your site...

And of course, how a site is run is down to the owner/operator. Despite what you think, the U.K. is not a full democracy and WoS forums (or indeed these forums) are also not a democracy. Lee has posted on WoS forums about the existing WoS team (see my earlier post).

But seriously, do you think all this knocking Lee and knocking WoS is helpful? Do you want WoS to close down?

And as to keeping an open mind, if I was the owner/operator of WoS, I surely would have been tempted to delete some of the unhelpful posts and threads. Or do as CPCWiki does and move them to "The Hall of Shame" area.

So Rich, what have you contributed to the Spectrum community recently?

Mark
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Guesser » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:27 am

I don't think this discussion is in any way productive. Quite the opposite in fact. :roll:
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