World of Spectrum....

Y'know, other stuff, Sinclair related.
HexTank
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by HexTank » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:12 am

Yeah, I understand that, there isn't any social media that has escaped it, but, as mentioned on WoS, this place isn't supposed to be a replacement yet its biggest thread doesn't give that impression, does it?
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PeterJ
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by PeterJ » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:15 am

Rorthron wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:43 am
ramsrc wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:07 am
I think everyone needs to be very careful here. Much mud slinging has taken place over an extended period of time - and in my humble opinion it is now time to stop.

This is not aimed at anyone specifically, but to everyone - Please, please, please think before you type - and use your common sense!
Yes, there are obviously a lot of (understandable) frustrations with what's been happening at WoS. It would be great if we can avoid them boiling over here.

I'm really grateful Peter et al have set up this place and have given us an alternative place to discuss Spectrum matters. I think it would be great if we make their lives easier and police ourselves as much as possible.
Thank you. I couldn't agree more. Self moderation is the key to the success and continuation of this forum.
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Sokurah » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:16 am

HexTank wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:07 am
Why is this thread a thing? It's like you get a new (girl|boy)friend and can't stop talking about your ex.
I have to agree. It's been discussed to death on WoS already. I wish I'd never have to read about it again.
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balford
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by balford » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:43 am

A phrase I use a lot is 'we are where we are'. Everyone has their own viewpoint on how we got here, the important bit is how we continue.
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1024MAK
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by 1024MAK » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:48 am

@jmk - there are never just two sides. It's always much more complex. As is everything where human beliefs and emotions are involved.

And as I said earlier, there are precious few facts. Just lots of allegations and lots of misinformation. Like your statement that fewer and fewer people are allowed to post. Who has been banned recently? The only subject that is banned on WoS is that of the Vega+.

It's sad that there is so much bitterness in the Spectrum community where the average age is that of middle age people.

Anyway, it appears that there is currently no way for clarity to shine through, let alone for people to put aside their bitterness.

I do wish Spectrum Computing good luck and success. I also wish WoS good luck and success. And I will continue to support both.

Mark
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by richl » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:09 am

I was watching this crime documentary series the other day and it taught me a valuable lesson about how different people perceive situations. It really made me think hard about my ability to process information and discern fact from fiction. Basically, the kids and their talking dog proved that it was the old lighthouse keeper who'd been behind the thefts all along. Really threw me!

Anyway, where were we? Oh, yeah. To paraphrase what others have already said, arguing amongst ourselves about whether Lee did or didn't kill WoS and similar topics is probably not very productive at the moment. I'm very grateful to Peter for setting this forum up and apologise for my part in fanning the flames. I think most people have made their stance fairly clear so I'm going to take my own advice from earlier and just try and post positive things on this forum instead. With that in mind, I'm saying nothing more on this thread. TTFN :)
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1024MAK
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by 1024MAK » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:11 am

Hikaru wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:22 am
@ 1024MAK, interesting. I can't seem to I remember a single time you spoke up against the many injustices happening over at WoS, not when people were banned for no reason nor explanation, not when they were pointed the door at a slightest hint of disagreement, the silent treatment and censorship, the broken features all over the place, not to mention the ridiculous 'development cycle', and so on. Bit of sweeping stuff under the carpet, bit of cracking dank 80's jokes on top of it, the usual thing. But hey, when people draw their conclusions (since, you know, humans are capable of independent thought) and/or react to any of it - indeed to the point that we have another forum now - then that is apparently a problem immediately worth many a wall of text.
Now you're just grasping for straws, stopping short of the 'our senses are imperfect, therefore white might actually be black' argument. Blind and misinformed, at this point, really? Not even shonen manga material excuse me.

Frankly, you need to follow your own advice and stop with the 'nasty unhelpful posts' here, seeing as it is all essentially a very long-winded way of 1) reiterating the idea that everyone is a tr@ll (outright destructive if you ask me), with 2) an added accusation that outside re-action is somehow the main and defining factor to the current state of WoS, or indeed should even be regarded a factor in the first place.

And yes, permutations and derivatives of 'I've paid enough monnies I should by now be entitled to ruin a major website among other things' are bad, bad arguments, that should probably not be used wherever human values are in effect.

I know I'm not exactly being constructive here, but neither is this entire discussion. Truth has a way of revealing itself over the course of 3+ years.
Err, you appear to have missed the posts on WoS where I objected to some of Lee's actions or intentions.

In actual fact, I dislike the word troll. In fact, I dislike any negative label that people use against others. I most certainly do not consider you to be a troll. And I never intend to post 'nasty unhelpful posts', and I don't believe I have done so.

However, it is clear that we disagree on various things. I try to look at situations from as independent viewpoint as I can. I have my own views. But I try to challenge the discussion/argument, not the person. As every person has a right to their own point of view. However, I do and will point out when wrong or misleading things are said.

Clearly WoS is not where we would like it to be. But all this bitterness is not going to help WoS or the Spectrum community in general.

Mark
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Pegaz
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Pegaz » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:25 am

1024MAK wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:48 am
And as I said earlier, there are precious few facts. Just lots of allegations and lots of misinformation. Like your statement that fewer and fewer people are allowed to post. Who has been banned recently? The only subject that is banned on WoS is that of the Vega+.
The lack of transparency is the cause of many misunderstandings, but who's to blame for it?
btw, I already told you that RMartins was recently banned (without proper explanation) and I almost cant believe you didnt notice it.
Maybe it should have been banned, but we dont know that, and we probably will not find out.
And why Vega+ should it be banned anyway?
5000 fans have invested their money in this project and I dont see why it's inappropriate to talk about it on the Spectrum related website.
Do you have any logical explanation, from independent point of view?
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by Hikaru » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:38 am

1024MAK wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:11 am
In actual fact, I dislike the word troll. In fact, I dislike any negative label that people use against others. I most certainly do not consider you to be a troll. And I never intend to post 'nasty unhelpful posts', and I don't believe I have done so.

However, it is clear that we disagree on various things. I try to look at situations from as independent viewpoint as I can. I have my own views. But I try to challenge the discussion/argument, not the person. As every person has a right to their own point of view. However, I do and will point out when wrong or misleading things are said.
Well, at the very least it is certainly not fair to categorize everyone who disagrees with the way WoS is managed as being collectively blind and misleaded, or somesuch. And if for whatever reason you nevertheless have to, I believe it would help the communication to denote the actual who's and why's if you have something particular in mind.

I have likewise nothing personal vs you despite these disagreements, I just don't think it's the kind of discussion that needs to be 'challenged', or re-fuelled for that matter. Everything has mostly been said over the years, including this exact phrase. :)
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Re: World of Spectrum....

Post by jmk » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:45 am

1024MAK wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:48 am
And as I said earlier, there are precious few facts. Just lots of allegations and lots of misinformation. Like your statement that fewer and fewer people are allowed to post. Who has been banned recently? The only subject that is banned on WoS is that of the Vega+.

It's sad that there is so much bitterness in the Spectrum community where the average age is that of middle age people.
@1024MAK - it is not just as simple as people being banned (they have been) and subjects being banned (they have been). I have been in de facto exile and others walk on eggshells in the WoS forums, precisely to avoid the kind of conflict that would precipitate the end of WoS.

A group of people have got together to (quietly) build a lifeboat.

These are not actions driven by anger or bitterness, but from a fundamental desire to see the essence of the Spectrum community survive. Again, the overwhelming emotion is sadness as I watch something I have loved, for decades, die slowly.
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