Average magazine score

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PeterJ
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by PeterJ »

[mention]druellan[/mention],

I think if we go down that road some will like, and others won't. Can't please all the people all the time I'm afraid.
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by PeterJ »

Juan F. Ramirez wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:38 am I think this must go 'step by step'. Let's just introduce it and see how does it go. In the near future improvements can be done.
Thank you [mention]Juan F. Ramirez[/mention] for being the voice of reason.

This was us being responsive to a user request. It's supposed to be just a guide, a rough average of the scores that are available. I'm loathed to start chopping it apart. Just enjoy it for what it is.

See how it goes for a year, and if it's still important we can review. Too much other stuff to do I'm afraid.
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Einar Saukas
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Einar Saukas »

Audionautas wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:23 am By the way, what about those magazines not using an overall rating, just a graphical or numerical score in different categories?
The SQL query that I posted only considers overall scores. These are the same scores that appear in the "Magazine Reviews" section of each game page at SpectrumComputing.

Reviews that did not have an overall score are not considered in the calculation.
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by RWAC »

Juan F. Ramirez wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:45 am
PeterJ wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:25 am
What do people think of the voting system on Lemon64? This is what I'm thinking of asking for.

Thanks

Edit: We won't be adding user reviews as these would need manual checking before publication and we don't have the capacity to do this.
I think you're referring to this:

Image

"You must be logged in to vote" appears before voting.

That's the idea I have in mind. It even shows which score by each member. No anonym votes, no trolling.

It'd be great.
Agreed!
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Einar Saukas
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Einar Saukas »

druellan wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:35 amIn the future perhaps we can have an algorithm that only matches reviews close to the publication year, this way most of the re-reviews can be filtered.
I can easily modify the SQL (that I posted) to include additional rules for excluding certain reviews. The tricky part is deciding these rules.

How much is "close to publication year"? Also what should we do when we don't have a game release date or the magazine issue year?
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by akeley »

Rorthron wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:04 am [The average score is not perfect, especially for early games, but I think it's a good benchmark, nonetheless.
I agree, it's better than nothing, and fun to look at. It was a great idea. There is bound to be some silliness, like with Ant Attack. But at least Deathchase (77%) is not the best game ever anymore ;)

Would it be possible to have all scores from individual mags listed on a mag's page? (in a link, obviously).

I'd also love to see the Top 100 average score list (or even 1000), with an added explanation about re-reviews perhaps.
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by PeterJ »

akeley wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:37 pm Would it be possible to have all scores from individual mags listed on a mag's page? (in a link, obviously).
The closest thing available to that is expanding the Magazine Reviews section on the game page and you see the score is printed there against each link. That's as good as it gets.

Regarding top 1,000. How do we order titles with the same score without upsetting anyone.... How can something so simple get so complicated :D We could weight the results by the shoe size of the author maybe...
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by akeley »

PeterJ wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:46 pm The closest thing available to that is expanding the Magazine Reviews section on the game page and you see the score is printed there against each link. That's as good as it gets.
What I was thinking about was a list of all the reviews per mag, with scores. Since they are already in the database...
Regarding top 1,000. How do we order titles with the same score without upsetting anyone.... How can something so simple get so complicated :D
It'd be just a tie. Nobody should get upset about it all anyway, since it all should be taken with a pinch of salt (yes, I know somebody will do so regardless :)
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by PeterJ »

Thanks [mention]akeley[/mention],

I will provide an Excel file of all the average scores and users can sort how they wish. I think that's a better option that creating a webpage for it
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Ivanzx »

What about inlcluding Microhobby´ s scores as well? It was the biggest magazine for Spectrum in Spain, Portugal and South America :) (in Spain it was, literally, huge, with a very big impact) :)
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by PeterJ »

Ivanzx wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:33 pm What about inlcluding Microhobby´ s scores as well? It was the biggest magazine for Spectrum in Spain, Portugal and South America :) (in Spain it was, literally, huge, with a very big impact) :)
Hi,

Please see above. Only magazine reviews typed up for ZXSR are included.
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Vampyre »

Rorthron wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:04 am
Morkin wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:57 am Ant Attack - 59% :o
There was a late re-review of 22%, which drags the score down.

For similar reasons Jetpac scores 60%. None of the original reviews had a numeric score, so the only rating is a later 6/10 re-review, which claimed it was "dated".

There does seem to have been a journalistic need to lower scores sharply in re-reviews. Seriously, 22%? It's just attention seeking in my opinion.

The average score is not perfect, especially for early games, but I think it's a good benchmark, nonetheless.
The guy who did those re-reviews in Crash, Will Brooker, came on here a couple of years back and talked about the scores: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1041&p=14856#p14856

He knows they were massively underrated :-)
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Vampyre »

druellan wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:35 am
PeterJ wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:28 am Thanks for the feedback. This is not a perfect science and excluding re-reviews get too complicated.
In the future perhaps we can have an algorithm that only matches reviews close to the publication year, this way most of the re-reviews can be filtered.
It's always bothered me a bit trying to figure out how to omit the re-reviews. This is as good a way as any IMO - just check what year the review was in and if it's the same or +1 year of title release year consider it original release review. It's going to filter a good 90-odd% of the re-reviews.
ZX Spectrum Reviews REST API: http://zxspectrumreviews.co.uk/
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Vampyre »

PeterJ wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:46 pm How can something so simple get so complicated :D We could weight the results by the shoe size of the author maybe...
Ha ha! Welcome to the pain I had in trying to figure it out (and never really did). I'm sure Einar has sorted some of these anomalies out but it's not always a score text of "Overall". There's (off the top of my head) also these, which are "Overall" in all but name:

Ace Rating
Gilbert Factor
Personal Rating (and Personal Ratings - I was very pedantic in getting it the same text as in the mag).
Verdict
etc

Then there's the nonsense in Your Spectrum where all three reviewers gave an "Overall" rating. That really messes averages up.

Also in the data I provide from ZXSR the scores table has a header_order. The highest number per review should be the Overall - but not in all cases as there's no clear "Overall" to any of the scores. C+VG early days is a good example of that when they had "Graphics", "Sound", "Playability" and "Value".

It's a blooming nightmare!!
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Morkin »

It sounds like it...! :D

Based on the examples provided I think the magazine average rating added is more a curiosity than an accurate rating. As Peter mentioned if it's easy as the data's just there, then there's no harm in it, but I wouldn't spend too much effort trying to tweak the algorithm as it'll probably end up being an endless task that nobody agrees with, you know what we're like.. :lol:

(Just as an aside, I do really like the way the magazine score appear in the "Magazine reviews" section, I guess they've been there a while but I tend to look there now whenever I view a game I'm unfamiliar with.)

One interesting re-review anomaly I discovered:

California Games
Crash issue 49 (1988) - 36% (original)
Crash issue 83 (1990) - 69% (Kixx re-release)

Fickle reviewers eh...? ;)
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by RWAC »

Vendetta
YS issue#55 76%
YS Issue#78 35%

St Dragon

YS Issue#60 80%
YS Issue#78 29%


Golden Axe

YS Issue#61 91%
YS Issue#77 30%


All these re-releases were reviewed by Stuart Campbell. I remember people writing in to the letters pages asking if he liked Spectrum games? :lol:
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Einar Saukas »

Vampyre wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:00 pmThere's (off the top of my head) also these, which are "Overall" in all but name:

Ace Rating
Gilbert Factor
Personal Rating (and Personal Ratings - I was very pedantic in getting it the same text as in the mag).
Verdict
etc
Personal Rating(s) is usually a partial score, not overall. For instance:

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/page.ph ... 38&page=71

Vampyre wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:00 pmIt's a blooming nightmare!!
This problem was already solved :)

In ZXDB there's a column called "zxsr_scores.is_overall" that identifies the overall scores. I can export this information back to you if you are interested!
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Vampyre »

Awesome! That must have been a bit of a pain to flag. What I'll do is grab ZXDB and convert into SQL Server. Its about time I did that again, but thanks for the offer.
ZX Spectrum Reviews REST API: http://zxspectrumreviews.co.uk/
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by PeterJ »

Titles with 90% of over:

234 Arcade Creator 100.00%
1388 Dictator 100.00%
2332 Hive 100.00%
2351 Horace Goes Skiing 100.00%
2963 Mad Martha 100.00%
3213 Mined-Out 100.00%
3403 N.E.X.U.S. 100.00%
4109 Rescue 100.00%
4628 Solar Fire 100.00%
4934 Street Fighter 100.00%
5384 Transylvanian Tower 100.00%
5632 War Zone 100.00%
5810 Yacht Race 100.00%
5894 Zzoom 100.00%
6119 Crystal Quest 100.00%
6904 Robyn Hode 100.00%
7906 Animator1 100.00%
7915 The Art Studio 100.00%
7918 The Artist 100.00%
8158 Fifth 100.00%
8249 HiSoft BASIC 100.00%
8327 Laser Basic 100.00%
8330 Laser Genius 100.00%
8660 Scope II 100.00%
8808 Supercode 3 100.00%
8865 Tasword Three 100.00%
9326 Cookie 100.00%
10281 Superpower 100.00%
10891 The Patch 100.00%
11114 The Press 100.00%
11175 4 Crash Smashes 100.00%
11210 The Best of Beyond 100.00%
11234 10 Computer Hits 4 100.00%
11262 Five Star Games 100.00%
11288 Hotshots 100.00%
11760 The Spectrum Graphics Machine 100.00%
11896 Microdrive Recovery 100.00%
12026 Qualitas 100.00%
12102 FORTH Microdrive Converter 100.00%
12206 Unbelievable! Ultimate 2 100.00%
12236 Word Manager 100.00%
12241 Worldwise: Nuclear Weapons 100.00%
17622 Art Studio 100.00%
19513 Wonderworm 100.00%
26064 Dambusters 100.00%
32425 Suspended - Interlogic Science Fiction (ZxZvm) 100.00%
1000014 AMX Mouse 100.00%
1000092 Datel Genius Mouse 100.00%
1000102 DCP Interpack 1 100.00%
1001010 Zipstick Super Pro 100.00%
2000320 The Robot Book 100.00%
2000367 Spectrum+ LOGO 100.00%
2000418 Word Processing with QL Quill 100.00%
6825 Professional Adventure Writer 98.50%
11638 Danny Duster's Dirty Deeds 98.00%
4863 Starglider 97.33%
1854 Frankie Goes to Hollywood 97.00%
6880 Red Moon 96.67%
1601 Elite 96.40%
2589 Jet Set Willy 96.25%
3012 Manic Miner 96.00%
6540 Knight Orc 96.00%
7714 Savage 96.00%
11293 Jewels of Darkness 96.00%
11527 The Biz 96.00%
5239 Three Weeks in Paradise 95.75%
5156 Academy 95.50%
825 Carrier Command 95.06%
6391 The Graphic Adventure Creator 95.00%
7919 The Artist II 95.00%
8332 The Last Word 95.00%
11350 Silicon Dreams 95.00%
1000612 Cruiser Joystick 95.00%
1357 Desert Rats 94.70%
1538 Dun Darach 94.60%
151 Alien Highway 94.50%
3261 Moon Alert 94.50%
5368 Trailblazer 94.50%
362 Back to Skool 94.33%
1553 Dynamite Dan II 94.33%
4756 Spindizzy 94.33%
5981 The Axe of Kolt 94.33%
176 Amaurote 94.00%
1235 Dan Dare: Pilot of the Future 94.00%
2267 Heartland 94.00%
11214 Best of the Indies Vol 1 94.00%
12158 Taito Coin-Op Hits 94.00%
3462 Nosferatu the Vampyre 93.67%
4125 Revolution 93.67%
3354 Myth: History in the Making 93.60%
724 Rainbow Islands 93.57%
606 Bobby Bearing 93.50%
11391 Ultimate Play The Game: The Collected Works 93.50%
10842 Jinxter 93.40%
1686 Exolon 93.33%
6601 Lord of the Rings 93.33%
6704 Mordon's Quest 93.33%
6776 The Pawn 93.33%
7201 The Worm in Paradise 93.33%
7980 Blast! 93.33%
314 Atomix 93.00%
1712 Fairlight 93.00%
1772 Firefly 93.00%
2157 Grumpy Gumphrey Supersleuth 93.00%
3972 Quazatron 93.00%
12242 Wreckers 93.00%
13451 Fun Park 93.00%
15215 Fire 'n Ice 93.00%
903 Chase H.Q. 92.87%
2125 The Great Escape 92.86%
3925 Psytron 92.75%
5646 The Way of the Tiger 92.75%
5388 The Trap Door 92.67%
6023 The Boggit 92.50%
9372 Lunar Jetman 92.50%
11370 Supreme Challenge 92.50%
3424 Night Shift 92.25%
5520 The Untouchables 92.12%
851 Cauldron II: The Pumpkin Strikes Back 92.00%
3997 Raid over Moscow 92.00%
4433 Shadowfire 92.00%
4576 Smash TV 92.00%
5932 Africa Gardens 92.00%
6661 Matt Lucas 92.00%
7726 Shock Megademo 92.00%
9367 Kwik Snax 92.00%
12362 Trap Door + Through the Trap Door 92.00%
4873 Starquake 91.75%
1261 Dark Side 91.68%
328 Auf Wiedersehen Monty 91.67%
1278 Deactivators 91.67%
3128 Mercenary: The Second City 91.60%
29 3D Construction Kit 91.50%
4222 Rod-Land 91.50%
4400 The Sentinel 91.50%
4881 Starstrike II 91.50%
5225 Their Finest Hour 91.50%
9336 Magicland Dizzy 91.50%
161 Aliens 91.33%
2722 Knight Tyme 91.33%
4870 Starion 91.33%
4660 Space Crusade 91.25%
1002 Codename MAT 91.00%
1028 Combat School 91.00%
2194 Gyron 91.00%
3542 Orc Attack 91.00%
4948 Strike Force Cobra 91.00%
5153 Tau Ceti 91.00%
5919 Adventure D: Espionage Island 91.00%
6534 Killed Until Dead 91.00%
9370 Lemmings 91.00%
10059 Polearn 91.00%
11244 Dizzy's Excellent Adventures 91.00%
11568 Cecco Collection 91.00%
11883 MAX 91.00%
14930 Abe's Mission: Escape 91.00%
2259 Head over Heels 90.89%
3593 Pang 90.75%
3377 Nebulus 90.74%
1259 Dark Sceptre 90.72%
2196 Gyroscope 90.67%
2488 Inside Outing 90.67%
3182 Micronaut One 90.67%
3460 North & South 90.67%
5277 Time Machine 90.67%
4256 R-Type 90.65%
2218 Hammerfist 90.60%
4058 Rebelstar 90.60%
9366 Knight Lore 90.57%
3040 Marsport 90.50%
5340 Total Eclipse 90.44%
2546 Ivan 'Ironman' Stewart's Super Off Road 90.43%
2458 Impossaball 90.40%
280 Arnhem 90.33%
1715 Fairlight II 90.33%
5890 Zynaps 90.33%
9408 Sabre Wulf 90.33%
11949 Myth 90.33%
4181 RoboCop 2 90.20%
82 The Addams Family 90.00%
89 Advanced Lawnmower Simulator 90.00%
192 Android Two 90.00%
298 Astroball 90.00%
690 Breakout 90.00%
1709 Factory Breakout 90.00%
1845 Formula One 90.00%
2209 Halls of the Things 90.00%
2658 Jumping Jack 90.00%
3347 The Mystery of Arkham Manor 90.00%
3573 Overlords 90.00%
3899 Project Future 90.00%
3911 Psi Chess 90.00%
4022 Ranarama 90.00%
4065 Reckless Rufus 90.00%
4239 Rookie 90.00%
5252 ThunderJaws 90.00%
5342 Total Eclipse 2: The Sphinx Jinx 90.00%
5525 Uridium 90.00%
5728 World Class Leader Board 90.00%
6000 Behind Closed Doors 3: Revenge of the Ants 90.00%
6327 The Fourth Protocol 90.00%
6378 The Golden Pyramid 90.00%
6463 The Illustrator 90.00%
6631 Magic Mountain 90.00%
6772 Out of the Shadows 90.00%
6785 Perseus & Andromeda 90.00%
6883 Retarded Creatures and Caverns 90.00%
6903 Robin of Sherwood: The Touchstones of Rhiannon 90.00%
6955 The Serf's Tale 90.00%
6989 Crack City 90.00%
6993 Snowball 90.00%
7019 The Spectre of Castle Coris 90.00%
7088 Terrormolinos 90.00%
7956 Beta Basic 90.00%
8252 HiSoft C 90.00%
8677 Logo 90.00%
9446 Underwurlde 90.00%
9677 Disease Dodgers 90.00%
9869 The Journey 90.00%
10823 The Guild of Thieves 90.00%
10897 Pride of the Federation 90.00%
11171 2 Hot 2 Handle 90.00%
11179 Four Smash Hits 90.00%
11243 Dizzy Collection 90.00%
11265 Fourmost Adventures 90.00%
11289 The In Crowd 90.00%
11331 Power Up 90.00%
11332 Quattro Adventure 90.00%
11334 Quattro Cartoon 90.00%
11401 WOW Games 90.00%
11466 Action Double 90.00%
11708 Five Star Games 3 90.00%
11770 Heatwave 90.00%
11858 Live Ammo 90.00%
12027 Quattro Fantastic 90.00%
12030 Quiztimer 90.00%
12035 Rainbow Collection 90.00%
12217 Virtual Worlds 90.00%
17392 Intruder Alert + Invaders from Planet X 90.00%
22399 No More Intelligence Demo 90.00%
24947 Psycho Soccer 90.00%
36210 No More Intelligence - The Trilogy 90.00%
1000688 Phasor One Joystick 90.00%
1000857 Euromax Wiz Card Joystick 90.00%
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Rorthron
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Rorthron »

It might help to exclude games with only 1 or 2 reviews.

Also calculating a median, rather than a mean, would strip out outliers like 22% for Ant Attack. It would, however, mean more bunching around scores like 80%, as for a lot of games the median score might well be a 4/5 or 8/10.

On the other hand, it is not worth wasting too much energy on it. We'll never get a "perfect" system.
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Morkin »

PeterJ wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:42 pm Transylvanian Tower 100.00%
Image
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by PeterJ »

Rorthron wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:31 am On the other hand, it is not worth wasting too much energy on it. We'll never get a "perfect" system.
Agreed, and agreed!

If anyone wants more details from the above please find the appropriate game page.
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by PeterJ »

Blame Personal Computer News [mention]Morkin[/mention]!
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

This was the guy who made the Transilvanian Tower review:

Image
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Re: Average magazine score

Post by RWAC »

PeterJ wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:42 pm 11638 Danny Duster's Dirty Deeds 98.00%
This is actually a fake game. It was reviewed in Crash as an April fools joke.
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