The Perils of Willy

People are still making stuff for the Sinclair related machines. Tell us about new games and other software that runs on the Spectrum, ZX80/ZX81, Pentagon and Next.
highrise
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by highrise »

and one last point. All the work I do, every game and every mod, has always been available and free to anyone who also makes homebrew games, hosts competitions or generally puts something into the community to help it grow. I am tremendously supportive of anyone that contributes in this way. As a matter of principle I would never expect someone like Ivan to have to pay for anything I've done, or even make a donation. For me that's a simple principle of give and take.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by Alessandro »

jetsetdanny wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:54 pmWhether this urge is “irrational” or not, and whether their sense of self-gratification is “foolish”, is a matter of subjective opinion.
Well, I think I can be entitled to my own opinions, especially when they are motivated, and so far I think I have not been lacking in motivations...
jetsetdanny wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:54 pmApparently, this urge and this gratification serve some purpose for those who do it; otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it. Why does it annoy you so much, though?
I think I had explained it in my previous posts, but anyway... I am annoyed by the fact that someone plays - or seems to play - my games not because they appreciate them for themselves, but just to add another "hit" to a sort of collection. I don't believe this is a form of appreciaton for what I do. Just "be the first, put your flag on it and show it off on YouTube within a day or so" is all that matters. That's why I think such behavior is irrational and foolish, and I do not like it.
jetsetdanny wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:54 pmJudging by your opinions, you look down on this kind of activity (“swallowing” a new game and putting the results on YouTube). Consequently, I understand you don’t have a particularly high opinion of the people who do these things.
I think you are jumping too quickly to conclusions here. I never wrote I despise people who do this, I get annoyed by this attitude.
jetsetdanny wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:54 pmWhy do you care about what they do, then? Let’s call them – for the sake of discussion and simplicity only – “losers”.
Excessive simplification often leads to misundertandings. I would never refer to someone playing games by cheating just to be the first to do it and putting videos on YouTube in the shortest possible time after release as a "loser", a word that - as far as I know since I am not a native English speaker - has a precise meaning, which is defined by the Cambridge Dictionary as "a person or team that does not win a game or competition", "a person who is always unsuccessful at everything they do", "a person that you have no respect for" etc. None of the above refers to the persons; again, I am criticizing an attitude.

Maybe people who do this are genuinely unaware that I could get annoyed by that. Maybe they are thinking they are not doing anything that could annoy me. Most probably in real life they are nice folks and we could also have some drinks or a pizza together, who knows. It's that particular behavior that annoys me, not the persons in particular. I just wish they could restrain from this absurd rush to "do it within a day or so and be the first to show it off" because, for the reasons I do not wish to repeat once more, I do not find such attitude respectful towards my humble contributions to the Spectrum retrocomputing scene. No need to make distinctions between "losers" or "wise men" or anything else for that matter, that were not in my intentions in the first place, anyway.

I hope things are clearer now because, honestly, I am getting tired of repeating the same things over and over and yet being unable to be understood. Maybe it's the language barrier.

As for reviewers - as long as they admit they cheat because they have no time to play a game in order to experience the game itself in much or all of its entirety, well, that does not bother me that much, as long as they have the honesty of admitting it as Andre did.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by highrise »

Alessandro, I understand what you are saying completely. In fact, I think a lot of authors would agree with you, including myself.

The good news is that according to my research, an individual does require your consent if they are going to publish a recording of a walkthrough in its entirety, especially if it involves no critical analysis or discussion. As I said before, it's like publishing yourself watching a movie. The fact that the game is not in a playable form doesn't matter because with a simple game like this, by the definition of 'walkthrough' you are showing the game being played in the same way that most people would play it.

This means that:

1) if you wish to you can set an embargo period whilst everyone else enjoys the game.
2) You can also decide who is or isn't allowed to publish full walkthroughs on the basis of how they go about it, i.e if they really love the game for example, as opposed to just trying to get hits on Youtube.

People are still free to complete games using cheats for themselves if they wish to, people can still publish pokes and review the games, they can do "let's play" videos, but they can't post a complete walkthrough without your permission. As I said, it's the difference between personal and public use of your work.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by Daren »

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:09 am
The good news is that according to my research, an individual does require your consent if they are going to publish a recording of a walkthrough in its entirety, especially if it involves no critical analysis or discussion.
Sources please?
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by highrise »

https://ancillarycopyright.eu/news/2019 ... gh-culture\

To be clear, I personally would actively encourage people to review games, do 'let's play' videos, talk and discuss. The only thing I would discourage is the persistent publication of games in their entirety with little or no discretion - particularly when they use rollback to do it.
Last edited by highrise on Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by PaulJ »

I'm a little late to the 'party', but have to say I agree fully with highrise and Alessandro.

I spend a lot of time 'giving' to the community and none of my work is monetised (apart from a tiny fraction via Patreon which is voluntary - unlike adverts on youtube).
My games that are sold, all funds go back to the company to do more good work.
My YouTube channel is not monetised.
My magazines are free to download.

I want people to enjoy the content, to explore the games, to get a feeling of pride when they reach the next stage or screen. I want people to review my content, tell others about it, get others playing and involved. Showing a full walk-through, in my humble opinion, spoils things, especially if it's with 24 hours. I have no problems with walk-throughs if it forms part of a review, with the author putting in some effort themselves, and giving something back, or allowing some time between release, giving people a chance to make their own way through the game.

I have used RZX files when the game I am reviewing for the show is too difficult. This is done after many attempts myself, and only for the purpose of the review (along with comments and opinions), to show more of the game (not it's entirety) to get others interested.

By the way.. Titanic.. the ship sinks and he dies at the end... see.. no effort at all and I've just ruined the experience :-)
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by highrise »

Nice to hear from you Paul, and good to see another author expressing the same views. From the outset I've always been clear that I love to see people playing the games, talking about them and trying to complete them. I'm always happy to see reviews and I also value constructive criticism because it often means I go back and improve things.

All of this stuff makes a valuable contribution to a lively community. The only thing I am against is the posting of full walkthrough videos within a few days of release with no commentary or discussion, and, as has been established, we authors are quite within our rights to request that these not be published.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by R-Tape »

PaulJ wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:27 am By the way.. Titanic.. the ship sinks and he dies at the end... see.. no effort at all and I've just ruined the experience :-)
Aye but if that message is spread into a 10 min youtube video, titled "Titanic walkthrough", then I wouldn't call it a spoiler. Anyone watching it would have a decent idea of what to expect.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by Daren »

Where's the bit in there that mentions about "especially if it involves no critical analysis or discussion."?

That page states that all gameplay/walkthrough videos are copyright infringements. Nothing about it being more acceptable if there's critical analysis or discussion involved.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by highrise »

All gameplay footage is used at the discretion of the publisher. In general, videos in which games are reviewed or discussed are tolerated, or even encouraged by authors because not only do they bring in additional ideas, they also move into what would be considered fair use, much in the same way that you review a film or a music album. You may include short clips, but you don't publish the whole thing.

The real point is though, that someone like Alessandro does get to decide which videos are published that include his work. It is likely that, like me, he would encourage reviews (even negative ones if they are constructive) and discussion, and discourage ones which are nothing more than arbitrary game footage with no additional content or context.

So to answer the question more simply - it's more acceptable by virtue of the fact that it's more likely to be accepted by the creator.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by jetsetdanny »

I hoped we would find some mutually acceptable middle ground, but I can see we won't. So let me summarise the situation very plainly:

My walkthrough of "The Perils of Willy" was taken down from a website, because someone didn't like the fact that it was there.

The walkthrough I recorded was not of some experimental, development or beta version of a computer program. It was of a publicly released product which the author is encouraging people to pay for. I paid for it. I purchased it.

My walkthrough was denied to the public, because someone didn't like the fact that it was available.

This is censorship. This is what happens in totalitarian regimes. Some books are never published, because someone doesn't want them to be available to the public. Some movies are never screened, because someone does not allow them to be made public. Things are taken down from websites, because someone doesn't like them and decides they shouldn't be there.

My walkthrough was denied to the public this week. Your walkthrough may be denied to the public next week. Or maybe your review, because it will be too short, or showing too little respect for the author's hard work put into creating the game, or encouraging the players to wolf the game down too quickly, contrary to the author's fantasies of how the players should play his game.

When I go to a bookstore and buy a book, I can read it any way I want. The author will not be telling me how to read it. I can read it slowly and thoroughly, I can skim-read it or scan it, I can read just one chapter if I want, or half a chapter. I may not read it at all if I decide it’s not worth it. It is my choice.

When I buy a computer game, I can play it any way I want. The author will not be telling me how to play it. I can play it as is, I can use POKEs or Rollback, I can save and reload snapshots. I can play it for ten hours or for ten minutes. I may not play it at all if I decide it’s not worth it. It is my choice.

My recording was denied to the public because the author of this particular game (or, to be exact: remake of another author's game) wants to enforce – by banning videos – a vision he has of how his games should be enjoyed by the players. He is ready to deny the public the freedom of choice whether or not to watch – before, during, after or without playing the game – a recording of how the game can be completed in order to enforce his fantasies of what should be happening once people have purchased his game – how they should be struggling to complete the consecutive levels in an “honourable” way, comment and write reviews to express their respect for him and his effort while he would be basking in the true spirit of retrogaming.

I can understand that authors can have views on how they think it would be best that people enjoyed their games, and some preferences in this regard. However – both as an author and a player – I am categorically against their trying to enforce their views, illusions and fantasies by withholding information (such as visual solutions to their games) from the public, banning videos and having things taken down from websites.

If you want people to enjoy your games the way you envisage they should, make them so attractive that people will want to play them, taking their time, savouring them like a good meal, even if they have seen their walkthroughs recorded on video. Make your games so thrilling that people will want to write reviews and comments about them independently of whether there are videos of walkthroughs available on the web. If “honourable” actions are an important concept for you, respect the players’ rights and win their respect through a positive engagement, rather than trying to enforce it by blocking access to information, having things taken down from websites and promoting censorship.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

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My walkthrough of "The Perils of Willy" was taken down from a website, because someone didn't like the fact that it was there.

The walkthrough I recorded was not of some experimental, development or beta version of a computer program. It was of a publicly released product which the author is encouraging people to pay for. I paid for it. I purchased it.

My walkthrough was denied to the public, because someone didn't like the fact that it was available.
It was taken down because the recording enabled the full download of the game to be available in a format that was not approved. The game is freely available for anyone to download from the itch.io page.
This is censorship. This is what happens in totalitarian regimes. Some books are never published, because someone doesn't want them to be available to the public. Some movies are never screened, because someone does not allow them to be made public. Things are taken down from websites, because someone doesn't like them and decides they shouldn't be there.
No, it isn't, it's denial of distibution of something which is available elsewhere.
When I go to a bookstore and buy a book, I can read it any way I want. The author will not be telling me how to read it. I can read it slowly and thoroughly, I can skim-read it or scan it, I can read just one chapter if I want, or half a chapter. I may not read it at all if I decide it’s not worth it. It is my choice.
Absolutely correct. But can you photocopy and publish that book? No, you can't. Is that censorship? no, it isn't.
When I buy a computer game, I can play it any way I want. The author will not be telling me how to play it. I can play it as is, I can use POKEs or Rollback, I can save and reload snapshots. I can play it for ten hours or for ten minutes. I may not play it at all if I decide it’s not worth it. It is my choice.
Absolutely correct. But again, you can't publish yourself doing that if it includes content that you did not create yourself. You can only do that with the consent of the author.
My recording was denied to the public because the author of this particular game (or, to be exact: remake of another author's game) wants to enforce – by banning videos – a vision he has of how his games should be enjoyed by the players. He is ready to deny the public the freedom of choice whether or not to watch – before, during, after or without playing the game – a recording of how the game can be completed in order to enforce his fantasies of what should be happening once people have purchased his game – how they should be struggling to complete the consecutive levels in an “honourable” way, comment and write reviews to express their respect for him and his effort while he would be basking in the true spirit of retrogaming.
Absolutely incorrect. I asked that full walkthrough recordings not be published in the first two weeks of the game being out.

The thing is, I think it's clear just how reasonable I've been. I've been polite, I've been tolerant, I've apologised when I was a bit rude, and I've explained and justified everything. I made a game that anyone can download and play for free if they wish. They can use pokes, rollbacks, whatever. If I published it on real cassette they could wipe their behind on it if they wanted to. In addition, they can express their views of the game, or about me, in public, just as they are doing here. However, publishing footage of the game is always at the author's discretion, and in my particular case, I am not in favour of full walkthroughs being published in the first two weeks of a game's release. This is also the case for most of the coders I have spoken to about it. This is because we have the freedom to decide how our work is used publicly. You have the freedom to decide how it is used privately.

And as for the idea that someone like me who has created a considerable amount of free software and tutorial videos, and actively encourages people to write new games should be shot down in flames and compared to a totalitarian fascist for asking politely for a two week embargo? I'll put that one down to the current situation and the extra tension and pressure we are all under. Stay safe everyone.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by jetsetdanny »

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:04 am Whether you agree with this or not is not really the point. As you say, once you own a game you can do whatever you like.
You don't own "The Perils of Willy", Allen. You don't own the title, you don't own the character and you don't own the screen layouts if they are the same as in the original game. The IP rights holder who has the rights to the original game - whoever it is today - owns these things.

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:55 am Before I answer that, I want to make the very clear point that I am producing work which anyone can use for free, and I'm not 'telling' anyone what to do. The only thing I did was to ask that people don't publish the game being played in its entirety for the first few weeks. I wasn't forcing anyone to do anything
For all practical purposes, you forced the RZX Archive not to make my recording of the game available to the public.

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:55 am As regards the game itself, this is an entirely different discussion, and not one which changes the point I made.
It does. If you don't own the game fully, you can't usurp full rights to it, like being able to deny people the right to post videos.

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:55 am However, if I did have to defend it I would point out the following:

- no code from the Vic-20 game was used in the making of this game.
- the game is based on a reverse engineered version of the Manic Miner code. It does not use original source code, and is not a hack of any original code.
You don't have any rights to the Manic Miner code. The IP rights holder who is the legal heir of the Software Projects does. I suspect it may be the same entity that holds the rights to "The Perils of Willy".

Incidentally, I don't understand your references to a "reverse engineered version of the Manic Miner code". Reverse engineering is the reproduction of another manufacturer's product following detailed examination of its construction or composition. You didn't have to carry out such an examination, because the code is well known, its complete disassembly has been available online for years.

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:55 am - although the levels are based on the Vic-20 game they are built from scratch and due to alternative mechanics, play entirely differently to the original.
The mechanics may be different, but if the visual aspect and layout are the same or very similar, the IP rights holder could still claim you infringed them.

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:55 am I would argue therefore that the only issue would be the question of IP. It is possible that using the title of the game, and the use of the character may infringe in that instance. If this is the case however, this would not only apply to this game, but to every other mod of Manic Miner or Jet Set Willy, including the ones made by Danny.
This is not entirely correct. Every other mod of MM and JSW - including those made by me - can be considered to be infringing the IP rights related to the game engine or parts thereof, because they all use at least parts of the original game engines (which defines them as MM and JSW games for me).

Some games do not infringe any IP rights related to the game character or the visual aspect. Games like "Terry The Turtle" have nothing to do with the original characters or concepts whatsoever.

The difference between us is that I have never asked anyone to pay or donate anything for downloading my games and I have never made a penny out of designing them. You have.

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:55 am As I said, it's a totally different argument. If someone wants to push the button on that nuclear option and get the game withdrawn, that is their prerogative. All I did was ask people not to post complete walkthroughs of the game in the first two weeks.
You did not hesitate to use the nuclear option to have my walkthrough removed. And, on your website, your are not asking people not to post complete walkthroughs of your remake of "The Perils of Willy" for two weeks: you are asking people not to post full 'walkthrough' videos "for now". You might want to change that if it is indeed a "two-week rule" you are trying to impose in the spirit of censorship.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by +3code »

PaulJ wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:27 am By the way.. Titanic.. the ship sinks and he dies at the end...
WHAT?! Nooooo :o
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by jetsetdanny »

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:15 pm
My walkthrough of "The Perils of Willy" was taken down from a website, because someone didn't like the fact that it was there.

The walkthrough I recorded was not of some experimental, development or beta version of a computer program. It was of a publicly released product which the author is encouraging people to pay for. I paid for it. I purchased it.

My walkthrough was denied to the public, because someone didn't like the fact that it was available.
It was taken down because the recording enabled the full download of the game to be available in a format that was not approved. The game is freely available for anyone to download from the itch.io page
Yes, this is correct, but a video was not made of my walkthrough and was not uploaded on the RZX Archive because you requested that this should not be done.

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:15 pm
This is censorship. This is what happens in totalitarian regimes. Some books are never published, because someone doesn't want them to be available to the public. Some movies are never screened, because someone does not allow them to be made public. Things are taken down from websites, because someone doesn't like them and decides they shouldn't be there.
No, it isn't, it's denial of distibution of something which is available elsewhere.
Where is a video of my walkthrough available online?

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:15 pm
When I go to a bookstore and buy a book, I can read it any way I want. The author will not be telling me how to read it. I can read it slowly and thoroughly, I can skim-read it or scan it, I can read just one chapter if I want, or half a chapter. I may not read it at all if I decide it’s not worth it. It is my choice.
Absolutely correct. But can you photocopy and publish that book? No, you can't. Is that censorship? no, it isn't.
A video of my walkthrough would not be a copy of your game file.

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:15 pm
When I buy a computer game, I can play it any way I want. The author will not be telling me how to play it. I can play it as is, I can use POKEs or Rollback, I can save and reload snapshots. I can play it for ten hours or for ten minutes. I may not play it at all if I decide it’s not worth it. It is my choice.
Absolutely correct. But again, you can't publish yourself doing that if it includes content that you did not create yourself. You can only do that with the consent of the author.
Making an RZX recording is creating content. The way I play the game is unique, someone else would not have recorded it exactly in the same way.

highrise wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:15 pm The thing is, I think it's clear just how reasonable I've been.
I regard blocking videos of walkthroughs from being posted in order to enforce one's fantasies of how players should enjoy one's game as unreasonable. That's all there is to it.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by R-Tape »

Things are getting a bit heated, and I don't have time to sit and ponder this right now (I need a better afternoon's work than my morning's!). Sorry, going to lock the thread to open later.

EDIT—thread unlocked. It's hard to imagine anyone changing their own point of view on this. Please let's not have this end in a big argument. Now's not the time.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by highrise »

Danny and I have spoken via private message and everything is all fine between us, so if any of you have questions or comments about Perils of Willy, you can resume them now :)

As mentioned in the comments, the game was built using source code from a reverse engineered Manic Miner. I didn't do the reverse engineering however, what I did was recode the screen, sprite and animation routines in order to accommodate the differences in the Vic version. This was done to make it feel as close as possible to the other games in the series.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by akeley »

So I've played it a bit more yesterday. Similarly to one previous poster I've actually never liked neither Miner nor JSW back in the day - I just suck at platformers in general and find the precise jumping mechanic extremely frustrating.

But I really do like TPoW, maybe it's the retro-charm factor, but the game is undeniably very smooth, which helps with playability. There's none of the control/code hiccups which sometimes hinder older games. I will try the VIC original later, see how this one plays. I also don't know remeber how it compares to MM/JSW difficulty but I actually made it to the 4th screen, which for me is a massive achievement :D

The title screen is also rather exquisite. The intro music did not bother me...is it really just beeper? And, is it based on a Led Zeppelin tune?

Overall, it's a great job, and a very competent port.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by highrise »

I have a code blog which details a lot of the work done on the game:

https://www.youtube.com/happycodingzx
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by jetsetdanny »

'Perils of Willy - Bog Roll edition' is a bonus game included in the 'Perils of Willy' ZIP package. It features modified sprites, and the player has to collect rolls of toilet paper scattered around the levels.

Unfortunately, the Bog Roll edition has a critical bug and is impossible to complete as far as I can tell.

The problem lies in the upper left-hand corner of Screen 31, as marked with a white arrow in this image:

Image

Willy can only pass the green shopping cart guardian if he jumps to its right from underneath it, from that particular platform.

In the regular edition of the game Willy can stand on that platform in a one-character position safely; the vertical guardian does not kill him.

However, in the Bog Roll edition the red vertical virus (?) guardian kills Willy no matter how he stands on any of the right side platforms in this initial shaft. Willy can only stand in a one-character position safely on the left side platforms.

In order to outmanoeuvre the green shopping cart guardian Willy would have to be able to stand on the platform indicated in the attached screenshot safely while the shopping cart passes above him, moving towards its left boundary.

Regretfully, this is impossible because the guardian movements are coordinated in such a way that when the green shopping cart is about to reach its left boundary, the red vertical virus is close to its upper boundary, blocking Willy's way (if he wanted to jump from the platform located a little lower on the left) or killing him (if Willy is already standing on the platform where he needs to be to pass the shopping cart). It is impossible, as far as I can tell, either to stand on that critical platform safely while the red virus is next to it in its up-and-down movement, or to jump over the red virus safely so as to stand on that platform in time to wait for the shopping cart to move leftwards above Willy.

Hence, I believe it is impossible to outmanoeuvre the green shopping cart and progress further into the game.

The question arises whether Allan will release a bug-fixed version of the Bog Roll edition if he confirms my diagnosis.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by clebin »

akeley wrote: Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:42 am So I've played it a bit more yesterday. Similarly to one previous poster I've actually never liked neither Miner nor JSW back in the day - I just suck at platformers in general and find the precise jumping mechanic extremely frustrating.

But I really do like TPoW...
Gateway drug.

(EDIT: Didn't realise how old that post was)
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by PROSM »

clebin wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:52 am (EDIT: Didn't realise how old that post was)
Maybe you'd be more comfortable over on WoS... :mrgreen:
All software to-date
Working on something, as always.
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by akeley »

clebin wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:52 am Gateway drug.
If only. You saw my Manic Miner "performance" in the HSC (didn't get out of the first room). I think PoW is much easier, or perhaps it was a spur of a moment. These games really are "nor for me" ;)
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Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by Pgyuri »

Hi,
... confirms my diagnosis.
Confirmed (not by programmer) ...

$C713, $0C solves and keeps the hard timing :)

( if you have snapshot, you must lose one life to reload the room data after overwrite the memory address)

ps: it solved only the first problem, the second on the right side falling looks impossible too and not to modify a simple poke...sorry :(

ps2: $E271,$00 and hard but can fall ... and relax.

Pgyuri
MtM
Dizzy
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun May 17, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: The Perils of Willy

Post by MtM »

I recommend _everyone_ play both versions of this superb conversion of the rarest of the official
WIlly games, it is excellent, 'Hats off to Highriser' for their superb work. I still do not know the background story though, is there a scan of the
vic20 original tape inlay to read does anyone know?
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