File permissions.

Whether it's Mire Mare or a BASIC tape you found in the attic, it needs to be preserved digitally. Post here and experts can help to do so.

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kolbeck
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Re: File permissions.

Post by kolbeck »

hikoki wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:30 pm This is more an idea for Peter's site implementation than for Einar's ZXDB model. Although there can be more sites using ZXDB like the Thomas' one.
And just to be clear zxinfo.dk does not offer downloads of game files, but provide links to eg sc or wos as defined in ZXDB.

/thomas
https://api.zxinfo.dk/v3/ - ZXDB API for developers
zxinfo-file-browser - Cross platform app to manage your files
https://zxinfo.dk - another ZXDB frontend
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Einar Saukas
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Re: File permissions.

Post by Einar Saukas »

hikoki wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:30 pmThese kind of links are actually hidden to the impatient user and thus quite invisible ;) (Murphy's law)
The most practical way is a message before showing the download link, not necessarily a popup but a ajaxy text with timer.This is more an idea for Peter's site implementation than for Einar's ZXDB model. Although there can be more sites using ZXDB like the Thomas' one.
Personally I hate those popups and annoying messages that appear on most file sharing sites whenever you want to download anything. Are you sure that's really what you want?

Martijn's original WoS was probably my favorite site ever, it still amazes me how he managed to put so many game details in minimalist, easily readable pages. And I like the fact that both SC and ZXInfo are following the same principle, except also focused on providing a good interface for mobiles. This is the direction I hope they keep going, with only a few adjusts to accommodate developer concerns such as pointed out by Joefish. Please let's not overdo anything that would pollute their interface unnecessarily!
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PeterJ
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Re: File permissions.

Post by PeterJ »

Einar Saukas wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:17 pm
hikoki wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:30 pmThese kind of links are actually hidden to the impatient user and thus quite invisible ;) (Murphy's law)
The most practical way is a message before showing the download link, not necessarily a popup but a ajaxy text with timer.This is more an idea for Peter's site implementation than for Einar's ZXDB model. Although there can be more sites using ZXDB like the Thomas' one.
Personally I hate those popups and annoying messages that appear on most file sharing sites whenever you want to download anything. Are you sure that's really what you want?

Martijn's original WoS was probably my favorite site ever, it still amazes me how he managed to put so many game details in minimalist, easily readable pages. And I like the fact that both SC and ZXInfo are following the same principle, except also focused on providing a good interface for mobiles. This is the direction I hope they keep going, with only a few adjusts to accommodate developer concerns such as pointed out by Joefish. Please let's not overdo anything that would pollute their interface unnecessarily!
Agreed 100% Popups and similar messages make me want to leave a site as soon as possible. We want to encourage people to visit our site. The information has or is being added to accommodate concerns and is clearly available for people to view. Let's keep a crisp and clean interface as Einar suggests. We don't want to overcomplicate stuff. The focus is on an easily maintained mobile friendly site that fits the majority of users needs.
hikoki
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Re: File permissions.

Post by hikoki »

I just suggest a general idea, you have to find the best implementation :)
See an example from the itch.io site. This is my download link for Altair (a donationware game for Spectrum) :
https://jorgicor.itch.io/altair/purchase
There you can see a few information and the actual files to download. The information could show "Permissions" for that game, extracted from ZXDB.
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PeterJ
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Re: File permissions.

Post by PeterJ »

We would not knowingly include download links to this type of software (where the author is seeking financial reward of any type) without the author's permission. In that case we would add the link text in the comments text area. Although where a completely free demo version is available that would be different especially as the example I'm thinking of includes details of how you can buy the full version. If files slip through the net please let us know.

As I say we aim to provide what the majority of users want, but will never please everyone. We do always listen though.. Donationware or whatever it may be called is a very small proportion of published titles, and as I say we would not normally host these files.

You perhaps want to add to that site, the license terms and if you are happy for it to be hosted elsewhere.

Most modern developers of retro homebrew titles want as many people to have access to and play their games and aren't looking for financial rewards. Those developers who think differently (which is of course their right) can ask for anything to be removed.
hikoki
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Re: File permissions.

Post by hikoki »

I don't say you include the link from above. The donation is optional, you can avoid it an download the files for free. The point i s that you are showed important information right before downloading the files. You could show a last remainder of just a few things like Permissions. This is not a popup but the last important door before getting the files, to remark the most important things for the developer.
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PeterJ
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Re: File permissions.

Post by PeterJ »

As I say we would not provide these types of donationware files for download unless the author gave permission and we would in such cases add text in the comments box (as Einar mentions above) at the authors specific request, as well as links to their website. We have no plans to add any additional functionality such as confirmations or similar as you describe to this site. The author of any title can request text to be added to the comments section and we will do our very best to help.

Authors of commercial or donationware software would need to accept that this is currently how the site works if they wanted their files hosted by us.
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Morkin
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Re: File permissions.

Post by Morkin »

Hang on, a 5 page discussion about copyright, no-one's been banned and the thread hasn't been locked..??

You guys aren't doing this right.. :lol:
My Speccy site: thirdharmoniser.com
hikoki
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Re: File permissions.

Post by hikoki »

Morkin wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:13 pm Hang on, a 5 page discussion about copyright, no-one's been banned and the thread hasn't been locked..??

You guys aren't doing this right.. :lol:
Thanks Golly neither Joefish nor Hikaru made unintelligible pointer arithmetics out of this. Let's keep our fingers crossed!
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Joefish
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Re: File permissions.

Post by Joefish »

No-one's asking for pop-ups or click-through confirmations. Just clearly display above or next to the game download a note of the license by which YOU are distributing it. At the moment you throw in the game download with the pictures, pokes etc, which frankly doesn't help anyone - half the time you can't tell if there's a game download amongst the files at all! Separate out the game download from the rest of the data, and display the type of license next to it, linking back to the author's permission statement or whatever you have. You should be displaying this for commercial games you have permission to distribute too.

There's a huge majority of people using the internet that think anything they get for free is theirs do do whatever they want with, or must be 'public domain' if it's on a public site. These people are never going to click through links looking for permission for anything. These people need to be constantly reminded that they are wrong, and as a content provider I think you should be helping instead of kidding yourselves with excuses like "Everybody knows what Freeware means" or blaming WoS for what goes on on your site.

Saying 'Freeware License' is at least a start as it reminds people that there is a licence involved. But if you're not reminding people that you take copyright seriously, then you're not helping.
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PeterJ
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Re: File permissions.

Post by PeterJ »

Hi [mention]Joefish[/mention]

Our chosen solution is to allow any author to request text in the comments section, in a similar fashion to the text we will be adding for you. We also offer links to the authors website. We will of course remove any titles at the request of the author if they feel unable to accept the solution we have decided on. We aim to make a solution that is agreeable to the vast majority of our audience, but we will never please everyone. We are very open to suggestions, but can't say yes to everything. I believe we offer more options for authors than other large scale retro computing websites.

Whilst the downloads are stored on our server, the cmments field is stored within ZXDB (which is opensource rather than the alternative closed model) as this is a database driven site. This does mean that any site that uses ZXDB would display the same text if they used this field. Anyone is free to create their own website using ZXDB as it is free and without restriction or condition and is not subject to copyright. So the text should mention SC specifically if appropriate, as your requested comment does.

We are of course very open to discuss this 6 page thread further, but it does take us away from time we could be spending on the development of the site.

It's a good idea about grouping the types of downloads, and we can look into that. Thank you.
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Einar Saukas
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Re: File permissions.

Post by Einar Saukas »

Joefish wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:38 pmNo-one's asking for pop-ups or click-through confirmations. Just clearly display above or next to the game download a note of the license by which YOU are distributing it. At the moment you throw in the game download with the pictures, pokes etc, which frankly doesn't help anyone - half the time you can't tell if there's a game download amongst the files at all!
This is actually a good point!

Perhaps it has more to do with SC instead of ZXDB. Anyway I will chat with Peter and see what can be done about it.
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Guesser
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Re: File permissions.

Post by Guesser »

The distribution permissions given to an individual website clearly don't belong in the ZXDB being distributed. Though that's not to say there's any reason against ZXDB noting where stuff has been released into the public domain, and which companies which have blanket denied distribution etc. (though that is the default anyway if no license information to the contrary).
Trying to store a list of which sites have permission to distribute things within ZXDB seems like completely the wrong way to go about things to me. The sites should store the permissions they've been granted in their own database. (Potentially seeding it from titles that have been confirmed to be PD in ZXDB).
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Re: File permissions.

Post by Ralf »

No-one's asking for pop-ups or click-through confirmations. Just clearly display above or next to the game download a note of the license by which YOU are distributing it. At the moment you throw in the game download with the pictures, pokes etc, which frankly doesn't help anyone - half the time you can't tell if there's a game download amongst the files at all!
Yes, putting the game files together with pokes, maps, screens and so on is not clear at all

It would be much better if there would be two sections:

-game downloads
-additional data
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R-Tape
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Re: File permissions.

Post by R-Tape »

Either way I want some cool icons. Must have the cool icons.
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