Super Mario Bross C64 Full Conversion!

Anything relating to non Sinclair computers from the 1980's, 90's or even before.
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Ralf
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Re: Super Mario Bross C64 Full Conversion!

Post by Ralf »

Yep, it's great. Came about 30 years too late but you can't really blame the authors about it ;)
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Pegaz
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Re: Super Mario Bross C64 Full Conversion!

Post by Pegaz »

It's never too late to see such a good 1:1 port, as we've seen earlier that Knight Lore, Gunfright and Pentagram are possible at full speed.
I'm not too much into the technical part, but here's what a c64 developer says on Lemon:
What a masterpiece.

(BTW, I'm the programmer of a little-known Uridium clone)

Despite the slowdowns, I'm impressed how well the sprite multiplexing is done. Doing 48 sprites simultaneously is really hard -- there's not enough cycles on a C64 to sort vertical positions of 48 sprites in less than a jiffy in realtime for sequential raster interrupts, so a lot of tricks must be done. I once wrote a demo that did 16 sprites of any coordinates. It used a shell sorting routine (I didn't know Quick Sort back then..) 60 times a second to multiplex 16 sprites -- ordering them vertically by raster sequence. And flickering a few them 30Hz automatically if too many sprites were close to the same vertical position. The advantage is that I could just POKE screen coordinates for 16 different sprites, and raster interrupt code I wrote would handle the rest automatically.

Being a port of the Nintendo game using modified original code, and not having access to Nintendo's hardware sprite multiplexor abilities, having to do the multiplexing in the software.

Multiplexing into 48 sprites without sacrificing convenience (ability of changing Y positions willy-nilly) is massively harder, one probably have to keep the vertical positions pre-sorted to keep performance high. Such as only sort whenever changing vertical co-ordinate of a sprite. Keeping performance reasonably high with those rotating fireballs too.

For me, that is the more impressive trick being pulled off than the VSP in my opinion. VSP tricks are is amazing but, the feat of a flexible bolt-on software 48-sprite multiplexor as a stand-in for Nintendo's hardware-assisted 64-sprite multiplexor -- while also having a slower CPU. I already know by experience that flexible sprite multiplexing (not knowing future Y positions) for that many sprites, consumes a huge amount of CPU.

A standalone demo that does position-flexible 48 sprites is impressive. But having enough CPU cycle left over to reliably do anything sufficiently impressive? Not in your dreams.

But you're doing real time Y-position-flexible 48-sprite multiplexing simultaneously with full multicolor VSP scrolls and all the SID sound stuff with an emulated APU, all at the same time? While running on ported game code? Holy.

Hats off to that accomplishment of a bolt-on sprite multiplexor that is persuaded to function reliably under such darn near impossible conditions.
Ralf
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Re: Super Mario Bross C64 Full Conversion!

Post by Ralf »

Seems like copyright crap hits the fan again :cry:
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2902 ... the-making
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djnzx48
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Re: Super Mario Bross C64 Full Conversion!

Post by djnzx48 »

Well, it's disappointing to have these projects taken down when so much effort is put into them, but with Nintendo it's usually predictable when it eventually happens. At least they waited until the development was done before announcing it, so there was no chance to shut it down before the release.

It's probably a good thing they haven't heard about Manic Pietro.
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8BitAG
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Re: Super Mario Bross C64 Full Conversion!

Post by 8BitAG »

The way trademark law works, if you don't actively defend any trademarks then you run the risk of losing them.

No matter how Nintendo feels about this particular conversion, and no matter how good it is, they have to shut it down, because if they don't then it weakens any future case they may make against more egregious IP infringements. They simply can't turn a blind eye on these things or it will be quoted as a precedent in other legal proceedings.

I don't believe for one second that the person who did the port was unaware that this would happen. If you play with other peoples IP, rather than make your own, then you have to expect these things.
8-bit Text Adventure Gamer - games - research.
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lister_of_smeg
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Re: Super Mario Bross C64 Full Conversion!

Post by lister_of_smeg »

8BitAG wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:25 pm The way trademark law works, if you don't actively defend any trademarks then you run the risk of losing them.
This is a oft told myth frequently heard in defense of Nintendo. Is it only true for a company not currently actively promoting or selling a product using a particular trademark, and also where it is not common knowledge that a company is associated with said trademark. Neither is true of Nintendo and Super Mario Bros.
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DouglasReynholm
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Re: Super Mario Bross C64 Full Conversion!

Post by DouglasReynholm »

lister_of_smeg wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:29 pm
8BitAG wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:25 pm The way trademark law works, if you don't actively defend any trademarks then you run the risk of losing them.
This is a oft told myth frequently heard in defense of Nintendo. Is it only true for a company not currently actively promoting or selling a product using a particular trademark, and also where it is not common knowledge that a company is associated with said trademark. Neither is true of Nintendo and Super Mario Bros.
That's really interesting, but under what jurisdiction? These laws are rarely worldwide, but I'm not a legal type so genuinely interested to know.
AndyC
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Re: Super Mario Bross C64 Full Conversion!

Post by AndyC »

DouglasReynholm wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:09 pm
lister_of_smeg wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:29 pm This is a oft told myth frequently heard in defense of Nintendo. Is it only true for a company not currently actively promoting or selling a product using a particular trademark, and also where it is not common knowledge that a company is associated with said trademark. Neither is true of Nintendo and Super Mario Bros.
That's really interesting, but under what jurisdiction? These laws are rarely worldwide, but I'm not a legal type so genuinely interested to know.
It's a common micsoncpetion that trademark law requires you to go around suing everyone who might possibly be violating your trademark. This is utterly untrue, It is correct that, unlike copyright, trademark law requires that you actively demonstrate that you are using the trademark and preventing unauthorised use. That does not, however, stop you from granting authorisation to a third party, even for free, if you are happy with the way they are using your trademark property. Doing so does not diminish your trademark at all (it's just a form of licensing deal).

Ignoring tradmark abuse entirely can, theoeretically, lead to "genericisation" at which point it is acceptable to use the trademarked term to reference any similar product, but even terms like hoover have not yet fallen fowl of this (because judges are dis-inclined to do so) and thus it's a weak threat at lbest, In reality mot defedending a trademark at all, even in only vague cases, rarely has any influence on the outcome of a legal challenge.
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Cgonzalez
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Re: Super Mario Bross C64 Full Conversion!

Post by Cgonzalez »

djnzx48 wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:02 pm It's probably a good thing they haven't heard about Manic Pietro.
Shhhh!!! :roll:
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Pegaz
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Re: Super Mario Bross C64 Full Conversion!

Post by Pegaz »

It's to late for Nintendo.
They can write complaints and seek bans on some sites, but the game has already spread like a fire among fans and still can be found on various links across the web, so no worries...
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