C64 Standard Bitmap Mode (320 x 200)

Anything relating to non Sinclair computers from the 1980's, 90's or even before.
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Einar Saukas
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Re: C64 Standard Bitmap Mode (320 x 200)

Post by Einar Saukas »

Out of curiosity, here's how the Spectrum palette would look like with 16 truly distinct colors:

Image

At the center is the real Spectrum palette.

At the top, I kept the 8 original non-bright Spectrum colors, then added another 8 exactly intermediate colors between them.

At the bottom, I kept the 8 original bright Spectrum colors, then added another 8 exactly intermediate colors between them.

Both new palettes are almost identical because, as I said before, the Spectrum palette only has 8 colors really.

Instead of FLASH and BRIGHT attributes, the Spectrum could simply use 4 bits for INK color and 4 bits for PAPER color. Absolutely everything else would work exactly the same, but the graphics would have improved dramatically...
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Lethargeek
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Re: C64 Standard Bitmap Mode (320 x 200)

Post by Lethargeek »

Einar Saukas wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:26 am
You missed the point.
No.
Einar Saukas wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:26 am
But my exact point was that, when a general purpose computer can only have a very small fixed palette, it works much better to chose a wide variety of colors spread over the color spectrum, regardless of what specific colors were chosen.
And that was exactly what i disagreed with. The specific colors choice corresponding to most common real world objects does matter much more than wide distribution of these colors over the whole spectrum.
Einar Saukas wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:26 am
The link you mentioned illustrates this point quite well.
No, it was about the examples i picked there to illustrate the importance of specific choice of colors for an "universal" fixed palette.
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Lethargeek
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Re: C64 Standard Bitmap Mode (320 x 200)

Post by Lethargeek »

also even the standard existing spectrum palette could be improved a bit with uneven brightness for different colors:
Image
Image
Image
Image
text becomes more readable, pictures less flat, more natural
almost any pic becomes better with this palette imo

this is why i use it in my emulator as a default 8-)
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XTM
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Re: C64 Standard Bitmap Mode (320 x 200)

Post by XTM »

Einar Saukas wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:00 am
Out of curiosity, here's how the Spectrum palette would look like with 16 truly distinct colors:

Image
These look great indeed. I like how you (probably) spent a minute to move the letters of the word "Spectrum" back to their proper positions. Offtopic fun fact: The original picture of various colour palettes you posted a few pages back, where it said "Sprectrum", was posted by the infamous MacDeath who frequently badmouths the Speccy mostly on the CPCWiki forums but also in YouTube comments. He's the final boss in Oilboy 5, if you remember that game title ... so "Sprectrum" was definitely not a typo.
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PeterJ
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Re: C64 Standard Bitmap Mode (320 x 200)

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I love the fat cat at the bottom @Lethargeek! Is that a loading screen from a game or just art?
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druellan
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Re: C64 Standard Bitmap Mode (320 x 200)

Post by druellan »

My first Spectrum was a Timex and probably because of the NTSC the color palette was definitely different. I remember a green tinted "cyan" and more warm "red" that looked fantastic on Deathchase.
On top of that, all levels of bright were visible, including the bright black, and because of that some screens and games looked funny. I'm still looking for an emulator that can recreate both.

The pallette Lethargeek shows above is interesting, because fully saturated colors look bad on a CRT TV, pretty sure most of us always played with more comfortable colors.
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ketmar
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Re: C64 Standard Bitmap Mode (320 x 200)

Post by ketmar »

druellan wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:11 pm
My first Spectrum was a Timex and probably because of the NTSC the color palette was definitely different. I remember a green tinted "cyan" and more warm "red" that looked fantastic on Deathchase.
On top of that, all levels of bright were visible, including the bright black, and because of that some screens and games looked funny. I'm still looking for an emulator that can recreate both.
ZXEmuT can emulate "bright black". it is also technically possible to replace the default palette with Tcl API. so the only two things you need is GNU/Linux for ZXEmuT, and proper RGB values. ;-)
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Lethargeek
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Re: C64 Standard Bitmap Mode (320 x 200)

Post by Lethargeek »

PeterJ wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:49 am
I love the fat cat at the bottom @Lethargeek! Is that a loading screen from a game or just art?
it's a scene from the old russian cartoon:
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Re: C64 Standard Bitmap Mode (320 x 200)

Post by 4thRock »

Lethargeek wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:48 am
also even the standard existing spectrum palette could be improved a bit with uneven brightness for different colors:
Remember that these machines have analog TV outputs, and TV signals are not RGB - they are based on luminance, chroma and saturation.
And the palete does vary along luminance :D

If you have perfect electronics and a perfectly calibrated screen then yes, you get equal brightness.
But in practice CRTs are not calibrated, with most people just setting them to whatever looks better, and that would make the brightness differences visible.

And of course colours would mix horizontally (especially on RF connections), since colour resolution is lower than the actual pixels.
That would also reduce saturation.
So your palette is a good approximation to what was seen back in the day.


(Sorry for the late comment but I've been in places with no internet or mobile network!)
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Lethargeek
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Re: C64 Standard Bitmap Mode (320 x 200)

Post by Lethargeek »

4thRock wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:53 pm
Remember that these machines have analog TV outputs, and TV signals are not RGB
late Spectrum models got RGB and many (if not most) even 48k soviet clones were RGB-only
4thRock wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:53 pm
If you have perfect electronics and a perfectly calibrated screen then yes, you get equal brightness.
But in practice CRTs are not calibrated, with most people just setting them to whatever looks better, and that would make the brightness differences visible.
brightness differences between the primary color components, thus affecting several palette colors at once
4thRock wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:53 pm
And of course colours would mix horizontally (especially on RF connections), since colour resolution is lower than the actual pixels.
That would also reduce saturation.
color resolution is irrelevant as we're talking brightness
4thRock wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:53 pm
So your palette is a good approximation to what was seen back in the day.
no, as i said, it was impossible to tweak the relative brightness for the each color separately with just TV settings
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