High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

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PeteProdge
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High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by PeteProdge »

A really good six-part series on retrogaming, which covers familiar ground, but has a few surprises along the way...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4jopG1wX88

The problem is, with this being tailored for a North American audience, it's very heavy on the NES dominating the 1980s and the Sega Genesis (grrr, Mega Drive) dominating the 1990s. I have no problem with the latter, the Mega Drive/Genesis was a superb console and is one of my all-time favourite games systems, it deserved to be so prolific. Just that while the Nintendo Entertainment System was as common as, well, water, at the time, over here in Europe it barely made a ripple, even the Master System was more in use and that didn't worry the home computing scene.

I just wish High Score's coverage of the 1980s would at least acknowledge the Commodore 64 (as much as I hate to admit, a hugely prolific home computer). There is no mention of cassette-based home computers at all, really, so don't expect anything to do with the Speccy or Amstrad. Come to think of it, the Amiga and Atari ST are also overlooked.

The standout moments, for me, is how Id software exploded onto the PC gaming scene with Wolfenstein and Doom. There's a lovely bit on a British developer from Argonaut Software pretty much hacking the Game Boy and then ending up working with Nintendo in Japan on what became Star Fox. The Fairchild Channel F gets a fantastic tribute, one that made me well up. Also, the MIA story of LGBT-themed RPG GayBlade is very interesting.

Naturally, they pepper it with all the familiar tropes of retrogaming to make it have a wide appeal: Pac Man; Space Invaders; Donkey Kong; The landfill-destined E.T. on the Atari 2600; the 1983 video game crash (yeah, never happened outside North America, you chumps!); Night Trap; Street Fighter II...

Still, there are heart-warming bits with high score competition winners who went on to use their gaming prowess to develop professional careers.

It's worth a watch, but very much focused on America and Japan.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

I watched all the episodes last week. Interesting to watch (and I agree too focused on USA and Japan).

But interesting stories about the birth of classics like Space Invaders, Donkey Kong or Pac Man (this last one was curiously targeted to the female market as girls didn't like to shoot and kill martians! :D ) or the war Sega-Nintendo.

I obviously missed the 8 bits computers, no mention of them.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by Ersh »

PeteProdge wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:49 pm... Just that while the Nintendo Entertainment System was as common as, well, water, at the time, over here in Europe it barely made a ripple, even the Master System was more in use and that didn't worry the home computing scene.
I keep hearing this over and over, mostly by UK residents, and it's simply not true. The NES outsold the Master System in Europe by a wide margin. Region-wide the NES sold around 8,560,000 units in Europe versus Master System's 6,200,000. Some countries like Germany, Norway, Sweden and Finland were dominated by the NES. Heck, even in the UK sales the NES and Master System figures were pretty much the same in the end.

Although exact figures are impossible to come by, you can see some here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ion#Europe

From a purely personal perspective, pretty much everybody and their dog had a NES, I only knew one kid that had a Master System.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

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[mention]Ersh[/mention] Purely anecdotal I realise, but I worked for an independent computer/console retailer in the UK 87-97, and I can tell you that the NES was FAR outsold by the Master System in consoles and games, possibly even as much as 20 to 1. Nintendo didn't start to make a dent in the market, at least as far as in north London anyway, until the Game Boy and then SNES arrived, where it was much more 50/50 Nintendo/Sega. Of course I realise this isn't true for the whole of Europe, but there were definitely regionalised pockets of Master System dominance, and as we didn't have the internet to educate us at that time, it probably feels like the NES was historically a 'flop' to certain people, even though clearly it wasn't!
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by p13z »

Another point to this, is that I remember the NES only becoming widely available in the UK very late in the 8 bit era, as mentioned above - so was of little significance to our gaming culture. More of a budget compromise for folk who couldn't afford something like an Atari ST.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by MarkRJones1970 »

DouglasReynholm wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:16 pm @Ersh Purely anecdotal I realise, but I worked for an independent computer/console retailer in the UK 87-97, and I can tell you that the NES was FAR outsold by the Master System in consoles and games, possibly even as much as 20 to 1. Nintendo didn't start to make a dent in the market, at least as far as in north London anyway, until the Game Boy and then SNES arrived, where it was much more 50/50 Nintendo/Sega. Of course I realise this isn't true for the whole of Europe, but there were definitely regionalised pockets of Master System dominance, and as we didn't have the internet to educate us at that time, it probably feels like the NES was historically a 'flop' to certain people, even though clearly it wasn't!
I worked in a games shop in 1986 and then again in 1989 we never even stocked the NES. The shop went with the Sega Master System as it was easier to get hold of. I remember that you had to sign a legal contract that if you were going to be a Sega dealer then you weren't allowed to also sell Nintendo. We sold loads of Master Systems but I never ever saw a real NES until I got one for myself about 10 years ago.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

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MarkRJones1970 wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:50 pm I worked in a games shop in 1986 and then again in 1989 we never even stocked the NES. The shop went with the Sega Master System as it was easier to get hold of. I remember that you had to sign a legal contract that if you were going to be a Sega dealer then you weren't allowed to also sell Nintendo. We sold loads of Master Systems but I never ever saw a real NES until I got one for myself about 10 years ago.
I don't recall any legal contracts, and if there were, we certainly flouted them!

The NES display was a single, 2 shelf wall mounted glass cabinet with a key lock, as we kept the NES carts in the boxes - I recall the carts being quite expensive at £40-50, and I know we didn't start importing until the MegaDrive/SNES days. Master System carts were around half the price, and we had a free standing floor rack about 8ft tall for the Master System game cases (we took the carts out and stored them behind the counter - some of the population of Southgate were quite light fingered).

I certainly didn't have to find the key for the NES cabinet very often, and I was the only person I knew of at school who ever 'owned' a NES - I used to take the display model home some nights. I did buy my own Master System though.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by Ersh »

Interesting! Thanks for the insight guys! :)

I know the Master System did generally well in the UK, unfortunately some people seem to equate that with total domination of europe.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

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Ersh wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:15 pm I know the Master System did generally well in the UK, unfortunately some people seem to equate that with total domination of europe.
Well, I humbly stand corrected. It was certainly the case in the UK that the NES was a rarity, on par with the MSX. Nintendo apparently didn't get the pricing structure right, they just thought the console and games would sell even though the Master System was clearly the best option for your wallet. I only knew one person who owned a NES.

And as has been said, Nintendo were very late to market with it, trying to sell the thing when all three major 8-bits had passed their commercial peak and everyone's looking to a 16-bit future... well, the small grey box just doesn't cut it compared to the visual wonders of the Amiga and ST.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by DouglasReynholm »

Just noticed that High Score is narrated by Charles Martinet, AKA the modern voice of Mario.

A nice touch.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by akeley »

PeteProdge wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:43 pm well, the small grey box just doesn't cut it compared to the visual wonders of the Amiga and ST.
It's not actually so straightforward. Specs-wise these two are of course superior, but if I was to pick a machine strictly for action games I'm not sure if I wouldn't choose NES. Its library contains zillion supremely playable games, while Amiga/ST have suffered a bazillion botched, laughable ports and very so so action games (Shadow of the Beast being a prime example of fantastic gfx and dire gameplay). Saying that as a person who still worships Amiga as the prom queen of the 87-92 class.

Maybe it wasn't so obvious then, don't remember since consoles were non-existent in my area.

My UK-SMS-dominance anecdote is that when I arrived in London in 1999 I was an avid gamer, but also completely broke. One day I saw an odd console (like I said i knew nothing about them) in a charity shop and bought it with few cartridges for a princely sum of five pounds, to quench my gaming thirst. Even though I did not care a jot about "retro" stuff back then and wanted to have a PC or Dreamcast, like the other cool kids. It turned out to be an SMS, of course. Since then I kept seeing many of these (later Megadrives too) in Bricklane and other similar places, but seldom any Nintendo gear.


As for the doc, I've heard about it, but also suspected it might be a bit of a Yankee-revisionism, and now it's been confirmed I'm bit too sulky about it to watch it :)
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by cmal »

Juan F. Ramirez wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:22 pm I watched all the episodes last week. Interesting to watch (and I agree too focused on USA and Japan).

But interesting stories about the birth of classics like Space Invaders, Donkey Kong or Pac Man (this last one was curiously targeted to the female market as girls didn't like to shoot and kill martians! :D ) or the war Sega-Nintendo.

I obviously missed the 8 bits computers, no mention of them.
I saw it too and although interesting and all, I was disappointed that it was too USA and Japan focused. It made the video game collapse in the 80s seem like a global affair. Meanwhile the industry was doing well on home computers in the UK and other countries.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

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MarkRJones1970 wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:50 pm I worked in a games shop in 1986 and then again in 1989 we never even stocked the NES. The shop went with the Sega Master System as it was easier to get hold of. I remember that you had to sign a legal contract that if you were going to be a Sega dealer then you weren't allowed to also sell Nintendo. We sold loads of Master Systems but I never ever saw a real NES until I got one for myself about 10 years ago.
If this was a wider case then this would have been one of the reasons why NES didn't sell as well as the SMS - not many shops would risk taking on that gamble.

I don't recall any NES systems, apart from the adverts showing the Turtles cart, during those days. I saw more Gameboys and SMS though.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

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akeley wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:32 pm Specs-wise these two are of course superior, but if I was to pick a machine strictly for action games I'm not sure if I wouldn't choose NES. Its library contains zillion supremely playable games, while Amiga/ST have suffered a bazillion botched, laughable ports and very so so action games (Shadow of the Beast being a prime example of fantastic gfx and dire gameplay).
The choice was a little skewed, in real life, by the fact that most of those zillion games cost a comparative arm and a leg - and nobody had a NES to trade games with. So a NES with three or four of those AA titles could buy you an ST - with a readily available supply of new games for the price of a blank disk each.

(Another point about UK / European gaming culture - we were pretty used to free games compared to Americans - with the Speccy so early, stand alone cassette players with timers, lower disposable incomes and Amstrad releasing super cheap tape to tape systems).
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by StooB »

namco wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:20 am
MarkRJones1970 wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:50 pm I worked in a games shop in 1986 and then again in 1989 we never even stocked the NES. The shop went with the Sega Master System as it was easier to get hold of. I remember that you had to sign a legal contract that if you were going to be a Sega dealer then you weren't allowed to also sell Nintendo. We sold loads of Master Systems but I never ever saw a real NES until I got one for myself about 10 years ago.
If this was a wider case then this would have been one of the reasons why NES didn't sell as well as the SMS - not many shops would risk taking on that gamble.
Important to remember that it was Mastertronic who distributed Sega hardware in the UK. They were already well known to computer game retailers, whereas Mattel were more associated with He-Man figures and tried to sell the NES through toy shops.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by akeley »

p13z wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:45 am The choice was a little skewed, in real life, by the fact that most of those zillion games cost a comparative arm and a leg - and nobody had a NES to trade games with. So a NES with three or four of those AA titles could buy you an ST - with a readily available supply of new games for the price of a blank disk each.

(Another point about UK / European gaming culture - we were pretty used to free games compared to Americans - with the Speccy so early, stand alone cassette players with timers, lower disposable incomes and Amstrad releasing super cheap tape to tape systems).
Of course, piracy was a major factor back then. Like I said, consoles were virtually non-existent in my area (behind Iron Curtain) for that very reason. So my comment was meant a bit more from the 2020 point of view.

Funnily enough I was recently arguing with somebody who claimed tha piracy on the consoles was "as big as on Amiga". I think it's a wild exaggeration, even if some people had copiers and distributed pirate carts.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

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akeley wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:09 amFunnily enough I was recently arguing with somebody who claimed tha piracy on the consoles was "as big as on Amiga". I think it's a wild exaggeration, even if some people had copiers and distributed pirate carts.
What were they smoking when they said that!?

To pirate cartridges, you'd have be properly into electronics and have your circuit boards ready. That's an absolute niche.

Nope, the 1990s was about everyday Joes having X-Copy do the job for them on the Amiga, no 'hacking' skills needed, and of course, as we know, tape-to-tape in the 1980s sorted us all out.
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

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PeteProdge wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:06 pm
What were they smoking when they said that!?
Probably smoking cracks, Pete
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Re: High Score - retrogaming history series on Netflix

Post by namco »

DouglasReynholm wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:13 pm
PeteProdge wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:06 pm
What were they smoking when they said that!?
Probably smoking cracks, Pete
I was thinking Steve Davis Snooker! ;)
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