BBC micro differences and similarities

Anything relating to non Sinclair computers from the 1980's, 90's or even before.
User avatar
PeterJ
Site Admin
Posts: 6858
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by PeterJ »

[mention]Alessandro[/mention]. The Cambridge Computing History Museum is amazing. Well worth a visit.
MrPixel
Microbot
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by MrPixel »

is there a way to get the left and right brackets to not show up as arrows?
Nomad
Manic Miner
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:38 pm

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by Nomad »

The answer to your question...

http://bfy.tw/Hwvu

For googlephobic
Spoiler
Keyboard Mappings
-----------------

There are two main keyboard mappings available on the Options menu, default
mapping and logical mapping.

For default mapping most of the keys are the same on the Beeb and PC but
these are not:

Code: Select all

   PC               Beeb

   F10 & F11        f0
   F1-F9            f1-f9
   F12              Break
   -_               -=
   =+               ^~
   `                @
   #~               _
   ;:               ;+
   '@               :*
   End              Copy
With logical mapping the key symbols are mapped directly (for a UK PC
keyboard at least) so you get what you press. Note that logical mapping
sometimes has to change the shift key state in order to work so it can do
some unexpected things if you use it while playing a game that uses shift.
Its probably better to use default mapping when playing games.

If you do not use a UK keyboard then you may want to set up your own
mapping. Use the 'user keyboard' mapping options in BeebEm to do this and
remember to save it using the 'save preferences' option
.


The keypad +/- keys will change between the BeebEm fixed speeds.

The keypad / and * keys will save and load a quickstate file.
User avatar
Vampyre
Manic Miner
Posts: 833
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:51 pm
Contact:

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by Vampyre »

As others have mentioned the BBC had an amazingly fast basic and we used them in college a lot back in the latest 80's. A friend of mine programmed a vector spaceship, fully rotatable that even included hidden line removal all in Beeb basic. Mightily impressive it was too. He later went onto work for Rare on their GBA games (and also confirmed a few years back that Mire Mare never existed - it was all in an issue of Retrogamer).
ZX Spectrum Reviews REST API: http://zxspectrumreviews.co.uk/
Nomad
Manic Miner
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:38 pm

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by Nomad »

We used to use the BBC in school, all the way through infants & primary school we had them. Even when I was in secondary school you would still see them around with a mix of 186/286 PCs during the 90s :lol:

I thought the keyboard was good - it was a solid bit of kit. But then you would expect that for the money they were asking. You would see all these cool peripherals and expansions for the BBC but it was in magazines. Like if I was an adult in the 80s sure I would have gotten a BBC Micro with Tube and a z80 co-processor. But besides the graphics tablet, econet and the logo robot I don't think many people ever got to see the really cutting edge stuff like the co-processor, the hard drive etc.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/08/2 ... ory_at_30/

The Acorn Electron was more likely to be found in the home, but it kind of never got the traction it should have with developers. Imagine a crippled BBC micro and you have an idea of the Electron. If you want to compare two systems of similar spec its better to use this. I loved my electron but software wise it never came close to what was available on the spectrum or commodore. I should say I would have swapped my Electron for a BBC Micro in a second if given the chance. It was a no-brainer lol.
User avatar
Seven.FFF
Manic Miner
Posts: 736
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:50 pm
Location: USA

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by Seven.FFF »

I would have killed for a skipped BBC Micro. My first serious coding was done on one, and I even sold some educational programs. We had them at college too, although they’d got rid of them by the third year in 89.

They seem rather expensive now due to all the retro idiots driving up the prices, and the shipping here would be horrendous :(
Robin Verhagen-Guest
SevenFFF / Threetwosevensixseven / colonel32
NXtel NXTP ESP Update ESP Reset CSpect Plugins
Nomad
Manic Miner
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:38 pm

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by Nomad »

It was weird how most of the educational machines ended up in a landfill. I think its something to do with the way that schools/colleges wrote off old stock. You rarely saw that stuff going to boot sales or charity shops. It's a shame when you think how much all that stuff cost originally even with the education discount. I get the feeling this is what created the scarcity you see now with the BBC B on ebay. There just were not that many units that were saved.

Plus I think the mindset was that the PC was replacing all of this junk anyway, who would have wanted a Beeb when the retro guys mostly went for commodore or spectrum, if you had money you splurged on an Atari ST or Amiga, then later a PC or Apple II. :lol:
User avatar
Joefish
Rick Dangerous
Posts: 2042
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:26 am

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by Joefish »

Fairly mean-spirited not to offer them to kids to take home!
But they'd have probably been violating some sort of health and safety directive or something.
Although it has to be said, if you did find a landfill full of Beebs from 30 years ago, most of them would probably still work... :mrgreen:
User avatar
PeterJ
Site Admin
Posts: 6858
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by PeterJ »

Yes, I seem to recall at the time we offered them out, but nobody wanted them. Everything was changing to IBM PCs with twin 5.25" floppy disks and a green screen (They were £2500 back then). That was the brave new world. If only we had imagined the world of eBay back then and stored them away. I think the company we used removed the valuable metals from the PCBs.
User avatar
PeterJ
Site Admin
Posts: 6858
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by PeterJ »

I have not tried it in great detail, but you can program in BBC BASIC via Windows with:

http://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcwin/bbcwin.html

The free version is fine for smaller programs.

Image

Getting back to the Spectrum though [mention]MrPixel[/mention], this is a very good modern introduction to Spectrum BASIC with lots of colourful games to type in and play:

http://gazzapper.com/games/zx-spectrum-code-club/
MrPixel
Microbot
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by MrPixel »

that's in british pounds right? you do now i'm on american soil right?
User avatar
PeterJ
Site Admin
Posts: 6858
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by PeterJ »

Yes, Amazon US have it for $13.50
Nomad
Manic Miner
Posts: 600
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:38 pm

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by Nomad »

Here is an interesting overview of the Electron.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpE-E_7lNJI[/media]

It's probably the closest thing you are going to get to a BBC Micro on original hardware in the US at a reasonable price (shipped). Assuming you have a PAL -> NTSC converter lying around your house.
chinnyhill10
Drutt
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by chinnyhill10 »

I rescued my BBC Master from the Physics department of my 6th form college in 1995. Was minutes from going into a skip. I've only JUST got the final bits of dried chewing gum out of one of the expansion cartridge connectors!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I86s8cWfRso
User avatar
Guesser
Manic Miner
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:35 pm
Contact:

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by Guesser »

That's pretty neat. At least compared to one of my Model Bs that has SCIENCES melted into the lid with a soldering iron
spectron
Drutt
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:27 pm

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by spectron »

Non-interesting fact No.1

I wrote my first game on the Spectrum simply as an effort to get enough money for a BBC Micro and a copy of Planetoid (although it was originally called Defender until renamed for fear of copyright issues)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f5Hzm7B4xU&t=5s

My ploy worked because they gave me £500 in advance royalties :D
User avatar
Seven.FFF
Manic Miner
Posts: 736
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:50 pm
Location: USA

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by Seven.FFF »

That was a nice Defender.

I just picked up a model B on eBay, I’m stoked. Rare as hens teeth from US sellers.
Robin Verhagen-Guest
SevenFFF / Threetwosevensixseven / colonel32
NXtel NXTP ESP Update ESP Reset CSpect Plugins
User avatar
1024MAK
Bugaboo
Posts: 3104
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Sunny Somerset in the U.K. in Europe

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by 1024MAK »

Seven.FFF wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:07 pm That was a nice Defender.

I just picked up a model B on eBay, I’m stoked. Rare as hens teeth from US sellers.
U.K. model, USA model, or German model?

Mark
:!: Standby alert :!:
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb :dance
Looking forward to summer later in the year.
User avatar
1024MAK
Bugaboo
Posts: 3104
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Sunny Somerset in the U.K. in Europe

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by 1024MAK »

Richard (tricky) is currently working on a new Scramble demo/game for the Acorn BBC Micro. Here is a video he posted last month:
https://youtu.be/nMgHZjkSvJM
It's moved on a bit since then. He's not yet sure if he will develop it into a full game.

Mark
:!: Standby alert :!:
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb :dance
Looking forward to summer later in the year.
User avatar
Seven.FFF
Manic Miner
Posts: 736
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:50 pm
Location: USA

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by Seven.FFF »

1024MAK wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:08 pm U.K. model, USA model, or German model?
Not sure till it arrives, Mark. It has a UK mains plugged fitted, but a very odd serial number! Unless it's a third-party inventory sticker. Any ideas?

Image
Robin Verhagen-Guest
SevenFFF / Threetwosevensixseven / colonel32
NXtel NXTP ESP Update ESP Reset CSpect Plugins
User avatar
1024MAK
Bugaboo
Posts: 3104
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Sunny Somerset in the U.K. in Europe

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by 1024MAK »

That looks like it has lost it's serial number sticker (often a paper label).

If coming from the U.K. with a U.K. 13A standard mains plug, it's most likely a U.K. spec. machine.

There is plenty of help over on StarDot including how to convert a U.K. spec Beeb PSU to work on 110/120V mains.

Mark
:!: Standby alert :!:
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb :dance
Looking forward to summer later in the year.
User avatar
Seven.FFF
Manic Miner
Posts: 736
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:50 pm
Location: USA

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by Seven.FFF »

Cheers Mark. Yes it looks like the PSU mod is pretty straightforward. I reckon it's been imported privately to the US but never used here :)
Robin Verhagen-Guest
SevenFFF / Threetwosevensixseven / colonel32
NXtel NXTP ESP Update ESP Reset CSpect Plugins
User avatar
1024MAK
Bugaboo
Posts: 3104
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Sunny Somerset in the U.K. in Europe

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by 1024MAK »

Don't forget to replace C1, C2 and C9 before powering on (assuming that they have not been changed and are still the originals). These are all in the PSU.

Mark
:!: Standby alert :!:
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb :dance
Looking forward to summer later in the year.
MrPixel
Microbot
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: BBC micro differences and similarities

Post by MrPixel »

Just found out about BBC DOS. Holy sh*te
Post Reply