Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

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8BitAG
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Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by 8BitAG »

Prompted by another thread, I'm looking through the cassettes from the Italian cassette&magazine Load'n'Run.

Picking out a random issue...

http://loadnrun.speccy.org/lnrita/lnr15/port150.html

There are games like Daley Thomson's Decathlon, Channel 8's Perseus and Andromeda (fully translated to Italian), Dangermouse etc. included on the cassette.

...I'm guessing that quite a few (all!?) of these games are completely unofficial ports and/or hacks!

Do we log this sort of thing in the database, or make some sort of note on some of the more notable (or notorious!) translations? (Not that I'm volunteering to do this... I'm just looking at the text adventure side of things for CASA)
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

There's a web that compiles all the issues (both italian, 'LNR ITA' & spanish 'LNR ESP' editions):

http://loadnrun.speccy.org/xprincipal.html

If you click on any issue, you'll see every game with the original game it was 'inspired' on.
Last edited by Juan F. Ramirez on Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

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And now my eyes hurt!
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by 8BitAG »

Juan F. Ramirez wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:38 pm If you click on any issue, you'll see every game with the original game it was 'inspired' on.
Yes, that's the site I've already linked to. :)

Original games seem to be in ZXDB (as they were in WOS). I presume the decision was taken not to record the existence of the "pirated"/hacked versions in WOS. I'm guessing, this would be the rule for ZXDB?
Last edited by 8BitAG on Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

Sorry, I read your post too fast, I see you already know the link! :oops:
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Einar Saukas »

8BitAG wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:47 pm
Juan F. Ramirez wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:38 pm If you click on any issue, you'll see every game with the original game it was 'inspired' on.
Yes, that's the site I've already linked to. :)

Original games seem to be in ZXDB (as they were in WOS). I presume the decision was taken not to record the existence of the "pirated"/hacked versions in WOS. I'm guessing, this would be the rule for ZXDB?
ZXDB doesn't store pirated versions, just like original WoS.

However Load'n'Run is a special case IMHO. Despite all piracy cases, it also had literally hundreds of original games:

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... el_id=8471

Therefore I think it will be very useful to catalog this magazine properly. Is there anyone willing to help? Volunteers would be helping to add information to this spreadsheet.

If you think you can help, even if just a little, please contact me so I can give you access to edit this spreadsheet. Thanks!
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Alessandro »

You arrive late, my friend - way late :lol: This is an old and well documented issue. I mentioned the infamous "tape magazines", a typical phenomenon of the Italian C64 and Spectrum scene in the '80s, countless times (a documented essay about that is in the 7th chapter of the Spectrumpedia).

[mention]Einar Saukas[/mention]: Gerard Sweeney already started resolving the pirated titles many years ago. Up to 15 August 2005, 2859 titles were already identified, including original ones. See here: http://www.the-tipshop.co.uk/Italian/

The "unresolved" titles are almost all original - games, utilities, demos etc. I managed to find some others: Prou for instance is Neil Android, Robix is Sputnik and Othello is Vice Versa. TZX files - and in some cases even scans - have been hosted on Stefano Bodrato's "Lo Spectrum in Italia" website for years as well: http://zxspectrum.hal.varese.it/cassette.htm
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by llewelyn »

Aaaah! Be they good 'uns, them thar games, Jim lad?
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Einar Saukas »

I'm aware of websites covering Load'n'Run. However the provided information is not structured enough, so we could just click on a game from the list to visit the corresponding game page.

If we can properly fill the spreadsheet I provided, it will be possible to import this information into ZXDB. Afterwards it will be much easier to navigate across magazines, tapes and individual games simply clicking on them.
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Alessandro »

We are talking about almost a thousand of titles to put in that spreadsheet. That would be a mammoth task to say the least, even if it's just a matter of copy and paste from the list on Gerard's website. Not to mention the fact that Load 'n' Run was just one of the many "tape magazines" of the era, and with RUN the only one which also published original software made by readers. There is a plethora of other magazines that hosted just pirated games with false names - Program, Special Program, Playgames, Special Playgames, New Special Playgames, Tutto Spectrum, Run Games, POKE, Game 2000 etc. - so that many titles have more than one false name, because they appeared across several of those magazines. This means there should be a list for each one of those magazines, listing all of the resolved titles with their correct aliases - enough to give headaches for months, maybe years. Edit: maybe not years, but are you sure you really want to do it? The only thought of all those cross references gives me the goosebumps :shock:
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Ralf »

Yeah, I know perfectly the issua of Italian cracks. Actually tapes coming with Italian magazines contained a mix of cracks and
original software. Some years ago I help to download to WOS some original Italian software.

I agree with Einar that we shouldn't add the cracks itself to ZXDB but the info would be valuable. Something like:

Sabre Wulf:
released unoficcially on Load'N'Run 14 As Esploratore


Is it worth to do? Maybe we should ask what are the alternative paths of ZXDB development. If I may ask, what were you planning
to work onin the nearest future, Einar?
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Alessandro »

Ralf wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:38 pm Sabre Wulf:
released unoficcially on Load'N'Run 14 As Esploratore
I remember it, it was on the March 1985 issue and I even completed it ;)

Just to clarify what I wrote above, Sabre Wulf appears as:
- Esploratore on Load 'n' Run 14
- Africa Nera on Super Spectrum (a special issue of Tutto Spectrum which appeared in 1985)
- Il predatore on Linguaggio Macchina 5
- La jungla on RUN 5
- Cabre Wolf on Computer Games e Utilites 01 - I

That's a whopping five different references :shock:
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Einar Saukas »

Alessandro wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:26 pmWe are talking about almost a thousand of titles to put in that spreadsheet.
Exactly. That's the reason I'm asking for help.

I cataloged 2 Load'n'Run tapes today. If more people can help keep this pace, it will take a month. That's good enough!

Alessandro wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:26 pmThat would be a mammoth task to say the least,
Almost everything related to ZXDB are mammoth tasks. We have been doing them anyway :)

Alessandro wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:26 pmeven if it's just a matter of copy and paste from the list on Gerard's website.
It's not just copy and paste. It takes some extra work to check the placement of games in each tape, and find out the correct ZXDB IDs among different games with the same title.

Alessandro wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:26 pmNot to mention the fact that Load 'n' Run was just one of the many "tape magazines" of the era, and with RUN the only one which also published original software made by readers.
It seems both Run and Load'n'Run contained some original software. I would like to catalog both.

Alessandro wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:26 pmThere is a plethora of other magazines that hosted just pirated games with false names - Program, Special Program, Playgames, Special Playgames, New Special Playgames, Tutto Spectrum, Run Games, POKE, Game 2000 etc. - so that many titles have more than one false name, because they appeared across several of those magazines. This means there should be a list for each one of those magazines, listing all of the resolved titles with their correct alias - enough to give headaches for months, maybe years.
I don't really bother about magazines that never had original content. I mean, I wouldn't mind importing already available information about them too, but I don't think that's important enough to dedicate as much time on them.
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Einar Saukas »

Ralf wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:38 pm Is it worth to do? Maybe we should ask what are the alternative paths of ZXDB development. If I may ask, what were you planning
to work onin the nearest future, Einar?
The ZXDB roadmap is available here:

viewtopic.php?p=25876#p25876
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Alessandro »

[mention]Einar Saukas[/mention] : if you just wish to catalogate the original software, then the task is much easier, since Load 'n' Run stopped publishing reader-authored sofware from issue 62 (September 1988), RUN lasted for just 14 issues, and everything for which the author/s is/are mentioned is original. Just remember the following:

- authors are usually credited with their (shortened) first name and last name in the magazine and sometimes with their full name and surname, or a pseudonym, in their programs, e.g. R.&K. Di Martino appear as "Rosario & Kelly Di Martino" in some programs and "Di Martino Soft" or "RKD" in others; Carlo Altieri is credited as "C. Altieri" in the magazine and appears as "Prometeo" in his game The Magic Land Of Landlords;
- sometimes authors crediting themselves in their programs put their last name before their first name, e.g. "Boscolo Luca" instead of "Luca Boscolo", "Cesura Gianfranco" instead of "Gianfranco Cesura";
- there are some errors carried over from the WoS database; e.g. Super Basic in issue 22 is in fact an original program (an enhancement for the Spectrum's BASIC interpreter), and whoever listed it into the database thought that it was called "Super Basic istruzioni" (and also misspelled the last word as "Instruzioni"), which is the title of the short program displaying the instructions for the main one.

Finally, Load 'n' Run's readers produced many different types of programs: arcade games, text adventures, simulations, educational, demos etc. if you cannot understand exactly what kind of software a program is, send me a message. Right now I can tell you that issues 2 and 3 of Load 'n' Run contain advertising, i.e. Pubblicità ("Advertising"), Campagna abbonamenti ("Subscription campaign") and Abbonamenti ("Subscriptions"); under which genre are you going to file it?
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Ralf »

if you just wish to catalogate the original software, then the task is much easier, since Load 'n' Run stopped publishing reader-authored sofware from issue 62 (September 1988)
Most of the original software from Load'n'Run is already uploaded and contains info about the magazine number.

For example:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.php?cat=96&id=10

But I guess this info is just text, not proper relationship in the database.
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Einar Saukas »

Almost all titles (original or not) should be already in the database. So it's just a matter of finding their IDs. If any of them is missing, simply put a question mark as ID and I will deal with it myself later.

If you find any more errors in titles or authors, please report them in the forum (or by email) and I will fix them ASAP.

Thanks!!!
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Einar Saukas »

Ralf wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:03 am
if you just wish to catalogate the original software, then the task is much easier, since Load 'n' Run stopped publishing reader-authored sofware from issue 62 (September 1988)
Most of the original software from Load'n'Run is already uploaded and contains info about the magazine number.

For example:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.php?cat=96&id=10

But I guess this info is just text, not proper relationship in the database.
Exactly!
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Einar Saukas »

The first few issues of Load'n'Run are now stored in ZXDB:

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... mag_id=321

Click on "PDF" to access a magazine issue as PDF. Or "VIEW" to view the PDF online. Also you can click on a magazine issue to see further details, then on "tape" to see contents of each covertape.

I hope we will get all magazine issues properly cataloged eventually. Many thanks to Alessandro Grussu for his help so far!
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by wallyweek »

I've just found this thread, and I'm sorry I didn't before.

There's lots of infos on L'n'R as well as many others pirate magazines on Giuseppe di Lillo's site "Edicola 8bit":
https://www.edicola8bit.com/giochi.php?console=48k

On each issue of each magazine you find has a screenshot, the fake name and the real name of each game. Original software has no real name or the same name for both fake and real names.

I guess infos should be included into ZXDB, they could be of use for all the italian users now popping out with the nostalgia scenes growing more than ever. In Italy many people didn't even know the real game names at the time, they now just look for "Piero" on ZXDB and are surprised not to find it, until they realize they should have looked for "Pyjamarama" instead. :?

Even worse, let's suppose the new Speccy users coming from the retrogaming scene begin sending infos about those pirated games believing they are genuine. We could end up with lots of requests for new entries! :o

Ok, the latter is an unlikely scenario, but who knows?

I would be glad to help if you like. I've helped Giuseppe as well, resolving some entries and sending some tape dumps.
I guess a new relationship table with original game ID and fake alias, magazine and issue should suffice.

Just let me know. That would be an honour to me. :)
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by MonkZy »

wallyweek wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:30 pm On each issue of each magazine you find has a screenshot, the fake name and the real name of each game
Great site! I enjoy browsing tape magazines.

I have found one error. On the page for 'HIT GAMES' there is a snooker game 'Biliardo' with no original game quoted, it is a rip of Steve Davis Snooker :

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/4 ... is_Snooker

[edit] link to Hit Games from Edicola 8-bit :

https://www.edicola8bit.com/giochi.php? ... =hit_games
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by wallyweek »

MonkZy wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:49 pm Great site! I enjoy browsing tape magazines.
Indeed! Giuseppe is putting much effort in his site. He's mainly a C64 user, but his interest evolved on other platforms and he's now hosting nearly everything ever published in Italy
MonkZy wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:49 pm I have found one error. On the page for 'HIT GAMES' there is a snooker game 'Biliardo' with no original game quoted, it is a rip of Steve Davis Snooker
Nice one! It's one of the unresolved entries! 8-)
There are many others as "Hit Games" was a pirated-only magazine, but I don't know the real names.

Here's the Facebook group for the site, unfortunately it's in italian:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/579478902239898

You can tell Giuseppe yourself, or I can forward the info to him on your behalf if you prefer. :)
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by Ralf »

Indeed! Giuseppe is putting much effort in his site. He's mainly a C64 user, but his interest evolved on other platforms and he's now hosting nearly everything ever published in Italy
Yes, it' seems to be a great site with a lot of work put into it.

I've just added it to my Spectrum bookmarks in my browser and I rarely do it nowadays ;)
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by druellan »

Just to mention that I'm also starting to uncover many cases of "pirated" software, most just unofficial translations. In such cases I'm starting to mark the software as "derived of", so we can have a proper link to the original work.
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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Post by wallyweek »

wallyweek wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:04 pm
MonkZy wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:49 pm I have found one error. On the page for 'HIT GAMES' there is a snooker game 'Biliardo' with no original game quoted, it is a rip of Steve Davis Snooker
You can tell Giuseppe yourself, or I can forward the info to him on your behalf if you prefer. :)
I've forwarded your suggestion to Giuseppe. Entry now fixed! 8-)
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