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Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:38 pm
by Ralf
Yeah, I know perfectly the issua of Italian cracks. Actually tapes coming with Italian magazines contained a mix of cracks and
original software. Some years ago I help to download to WOS some original Italian software.

I agree with Einar that we shouldn't add the cracks itself to ZXDB but the info would be valuable. Something like:

Sabre Wulf:
released unoficcially on Load'N'Run 14 As Esploratore


Is it worth to do? Maybe we should ask what are the alternative paths of ZXDB development. If I may ask, what were you planning
to work onin the nearest future, Einar?

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:48 pm
by Alessandro
Ralf wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:38 pm Sabre Wulf:
released unoficcially on Load'N'Run 14 As Esploratore
I remember it, it was on the March 1985 issue and I even completed it ;)

Just to clarify what I wrote above, Sabre Wulf appears as:
- Esploratore on Load 'n' Run 14
- Africa Nera on Super Spectrum (a special issue of Tutto Spectrum which appeared in 1985)
- Il predatore on Linguaggio Macchina 5
- La jungla on RUN 5
- Cabre Wolf on Computer Games e Utilites 01 - I

That's a whopping five different references :shock:

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:01 pm
by Einar Saukas
Alessandro wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:26 pmWe are talking about almost a thousand of titles to put in that spreadsheet.
Exactly. That's the reason I'm asking for help.

I cataloged 2 Load'n'Run tapes today. If more people can help keep this pace, it will take a month. That's good enough!

Alessandro wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:26 pmThat would be a mammoth task to say the least,
Almost everything related to ZXDB are mammoth tasks. We have been doing them anyway :)

Alessandro wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:26 pmeven if it's just a matter of copy and paste from the list on Gerard's website.
It's not just copy and paste. It takes some extra work to check the placement of games in each tape, and find out the correct ZXDB IDs among different games with the same title.

Alessandro wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:26 pmNot to mention the fact that Load 'n' Run was just one of the many "tape magazines" of the era, and with RUN the only one which also published original software made by readers.
It seems both Run and Load'n'Run contained some original software. I would like to catalog both.

Alessandro wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:26 pmThere is a plethora of other magazines that hosted just pirated games with false names - Program, Special Program, Playgames, Special Playgames, New Special Playgames, Tutto Spectrum, Run Games, POKE, Game 2000 etc. - so that many titles have more than one false name, because they appeared across several of those magazines. This means there should be a list for each one of those magazines, listing all of the resolved titles with their correct alias - enough to give headaches for months, maybe years.
I don't really bother about magazines that never had original content. I mean, I wouldn't mind importing already available information about them too, but I don't think that's important enough to dedicate as much time on them.

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:13 pm
by Einar Saukas
Ralf wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:38 pm Is it worth to do? Maybe we should ask what are the alternative paths of ZXDB development. If I may ask, what were you planning
to work onin the nearest future, Einar?
The ZXDB roadmap is available here:

viewtopic.php?p=25876#p25876

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:58 am
by Alessandro
[mention]Einar Saukas[/mention] : if you just wish to catalogate the original software, then the task is much easier, since Load 'n' Run stopped publishing reader-authored sofware from issue 62 (September 1988), RUN lasted for just 14 issues, and everything for which the author/s is/are mentioned is original. Just remember the following:

- authors are usually credited with their (shortened) first name and last name in the magazine and sometimes with their full name and surname, or a pseudonym, in their programs, e.g. R.&K. Di Martino appear as "Rosario & Kelly Di Martino" in some programs and "Di Martino Soft" or "RKD" in others; Carlo Altieri is credited as "C. Altieri" in the magazine and appears as "Prometeo" in his game The Magic Land Of Landlords;
- sometimes authors crediting themselves in their programs put their last name before their first name, e.g. "Boscolo Luca" instead of "Luca Boscolo", "Cesura Gianfranco" instead of "Gianfranco Cesura";
- there are some errors carried over from the WoS database; e.g. Super Basic in issue 22 is in fact an original program (an enhancement for the Spectrum's BASIC interpreter), and whoever listed it into the database thought that it was called "Super Basic istruzioni" (and also misspelled the last word as "Instruzioni"), which is the title of the short program displaying the instructions for the main one.

Finally, Load 'n' Run's readers produced many different types of programs: arcade games, text adventures, simulations, educational, demos etc. if you cannot understand exactly what kind of software a program is, send me a message. Right now I can tell you that issues 2 and 3 of Load 'n' Run contain advertising, i.e. Pubblicità ("Advertising"), Campagna abbonamenti ("Subscription campaign") and Abbonamenti ("Subscriptions"); under which genre are you going to file it?

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:03 am
by Ralf
if you just wish to catalogate the original software, then the task is much easier, since Load 'n' Run stopped publishing reader-authored sofware from issue 62 (September 1988)
Most of the original software from Load'n'Run is already uploaded and contains info about the magazine number.

For example:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.php?cat=96&id=10

But I guess this info is just text, not proper relationship in the database.

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:07 am
by Einar Saukas
Almost all titles (original or not) should be already in the database. So it's just a matter of finding their IDs. If any of them is missing, simply put a question mark as ID and I will deal with it myself later.

If you find any more errors in titles or authors, please report them in the forum (or by email) and I will fix them ASAP.

Thanks!!!

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:08 am
by Einar Saukas
Ralf wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:03 am
if you just wish to catalogate the original software, then the task is much easier, since Load 'n' Run stopped publishing reader-authored sofware from issue 62 (September 1988)
Most of the original software from Load'n'Run is already uploaded and contains info about the magazine number.

For example:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.php?cat=96&id=10

But I guess this info is just text, not proper relationship in the database.
Exactly!

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:07 pm
by Einar Saukas
The first few issues of Load'n'Run are now stored in ZXDB:

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... mag_id=321

Click on "PDF" to access a magazine issue as PDF. Or "VIEW" to view the PDF online. Also you can click on a magazine issue to see further details, then on "tape" to see contents of each covertape.

I hope we will get all magazine issues properly cataloged eventually. Many thanks to Alessandro Grussu for his help so far!

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:30 pm
by wallyweek
I've just found this thread, and I'm sorry I didn't before.

There's lots of infos on L'n'R as well as many others pirate magazines on Giuseppe di Lillo's site "Edicola 8bit":
https://www.edicola8bit.com/giochi.php?console=48k

On each issue of each magazine you find has a screenshot, the fake name and the real name of each game. Original software has no real name or the same name for both fake and real names.

I guess infos should be included into ZXDB, they could be of use for all the italian users now popping out with the nostalgia scenes growing more than ever. In Italy many people didn't even know the real game names at the time, they now just look for "Piero" on ZXDB and are surprised not to find it, until they realize they should have looked for "Pyjamarama" instead. :?

Even worse, let's suppose the new Speccy users coming from the retrogaming scene begin sending infos about those pirated games believing they are genuine. We could end up with lots of requests for new entries! :o

Ok, the latter is an unlikely scenario, but who knows?

I would be glad to help if you like. I've helped Giuseppe as well, resolving some entries and sending some tape dumps.
I guess a new relationship table with original game ID and fake alias, magazine and issue should suffice.

Just let me know. That would be an honour to me. :)

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:49 pm
by MonkZy
wallyweek wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:30 pm On each issue of each magazine you find has a screenshot, the fake name and the real name of each game
Great site! I enjoy browsing tape magazines.

I have found one error. On the page for 'HIT GAMES' there is a snooker game 'Biliardo' with no original game quoted, it is a rip of Steve Davis Snooker :

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/4 ... is_Snooker

[edit] link to Hit Games from Edicola 8-bit :

https://www.edicola8bit.com/giochi.php? ... =hit_games

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:04 pm
by wallyweek
MonkZy wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:49 pm Great site! I enjoy browsing tape magazines.
Indeed! Giuseppe is putting much effort in his site. He's mainly a C64 user, but his interest evolved on other platforms and he's now hosting nearly everything ever published in Italy
MonkZy wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:49 pm I have found one error. On the page for 'HIT GAMES' there is a snooker game 'Biliardo' with no original game quoted, it is a rip of Steve Davis Snooker
Nice one! It's one of the unresolved entries! 8-)
There are many others as "Hit Games" was a pirated-only magazine, but I don't know the real names.

Here's the Facebook group for the site, unfortunately it's in italian:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/579478902239898

You can tell Giuseppe yourself, or I can forward the info to him on your behalf if you prefer. :)

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:42 pm
by Ralf
Indeed! Giuseppe is putting much effort in his site. He's mainly a C64 user, but his interest evolved on other platforms and he's now hosting nearly everything ever published in Italy
Yes, it' seems to be a great site with a lot of work put into it.

I've just added it to my Spectrum bookmarks in my browser and I rarely do it nowadays ;)

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:01 pm
by druellan
Just to mention that I'm also starting to uncover many cases of "pirated" software, most just unofficial translations. In such cases I'm starting to mark the software as "derived of", so we can have a proper link to the original work.

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:00 pm
by wallyweek
wallyweek wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:04 pm
MonkZy wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:49 pm I have found one error. On the page for 'HIT GAMES' there is a snooker game 'Biliardo' with no original game quoted, it is a rip of Steve Davis Snooker
You can tell Giuseppe yourself, or I can forward the info to him on your behalf if you prefer. :)
I've forwarded your suggestion to Giuseppe. Entry now fixed! 8-)

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:03 pm
by wallyweek
wallyweek wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:30 pm I guess a new relationship table with original game ID and fake alias, magazine and issue should suffice.
I've made a pull request on github with the new table and the entries for all 1984 issues of Load'n'Run as a start.

Any feedback welcome, please! :)

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:15 pm
by Einar Saukas
wallyweek wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:03 pmAny feedback welcome, please! :)
My apologies for not replying sooner! I didn't notice the latest posts until now.

First of all, thank you very much for your willingness to contribute, I really appreciate it!

ZXDB already had detailed information about the first 7 issues of Load'n'Run. For instance if you visit this Load'n'Run page, click on issue #4, then click on "Software/Tape: Load 'n' Run issue 04", you will see a full list of games included in Load 'n' Run #4's covertape. Since these games were distributed in the covertape that came with the magazine, instead of directly inside the magazine pages, it makes more sense to list them as covertape contents.

Notice that besides listing the pirated games in each tape, we also list original programs (like Stock Libri) and even programs that don't deserve a separate game page (like "Presentazione" and "Prossimamente"). We also list the tape side and order of each program in the tape.

This organization works quite well for unauthorized copies in magazines. If you search for "Oro Nero" at SpectrumComputing you will find the corresponding game page just fine.

This information was added using this spreadsheet. Alessandro Grussu and myself filled the first 7 issues, but we both have been too busy to do anything else. If you can help complete this spreadsheet, even if it's just a few more issues, we will be very grateful! Just send me a PM with your email address so I can give you editing permission in this spreadsheet. I also added a second "tab" in the spreadsheet so you can add a link to Giuseppe's page (and anything else you consider relevant) for each magazine issue, I'm sure he will like it. I already added all links to Giuseppe's page that will appear in the next ZXDB update, I'm sure he will like it.

You just need to be careful when filling the spreadsheet because there are different games with similar titles. For instance "Carambola" is Pool by Bug-Byte Software, not Pool by Omega Software. Also "Cowboys" is Cowboy Shootout by Micro Power, not Cowboy Shoot Out by 16/48 Tape Magazine. It's easy to get them wrong :)

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:21 pm
by wallyweek
Einar Saukas wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:15 pm This information was added using this spreadsheet. Alessandro Grussu and myself filled the first 7 issues, but we both have been too busy to do anything else. If you can help complete this spreadsheet, even if it's just a few more issues, we will be very grateful! Just send me a PM with your email address so I can give you editing permission in this spreadsheet.
I didn't notice that!

I'll be glad to complete the sheet, and if it's fine to you, can also add other magazines.
PM sent! :)

Oh, and don't forget to discard my pull request. :)

Re: Load'n'Run.... "Pirated" games?

Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:07 pm
by Einar Saukas
wallyweek wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:21 pm I'll be glad to complete the sheet, and if it's fine to you, can also add other magazines.
PM sent! :)
Awesome, thank you!!!

I gave you editing access to 2 spreadsheets:
  • Use this spreadsheet when you want to list programs distributed in magazine covertapes, like Load'n'Run. Please create a different spreadsheet tab for each magazine. You don't need to worry about the SQL columns, that's the easy part for me, I can add them later.
  • Use this spreadsheet when you want to list magazine page contents. It's not useful for Load'n'Run that doesn't have any actual content in magazine pages, everything's on covertapes. But you may need it for other magazines. In this case, everything does in the 1st tab. Except if there's a magazine issue that doesn't exist in ZXDB yet, you can use the 2nd tab to add it.
wallyweek wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:21 pm Oh, and don't forget to discard my pull request. :)
Done!