Searching for "Never Released" games on the ZXDB

[Audionautas]

Wow!!

Amazing list! Thank you guys. [mention]PeterJ[/mention] [mention]R-Tape[/mention] [mention]kolbeck[/mention]

[PeterJ]

According to my numbers we have 6604 MIA entries

Agreed:

Code: Select all

select entries.id, entries.title
from entries
where entries.availabletype_id = '?'
ORDER BY entries.title

[R-Tape]

Good point. I was trying to over-complicate things! Should have just kept to one table.

Don't worry about it Peter. In the right hands, SQL is powerful and exciting language.

Give me a shout if you need any tips.

( )

[PeterJ]

I will be sure to do that [mention]R-Tape[/mention]

[Audionautas]

Hi

I've been reviewing several titles of that list and a lot of them will be tagged as never released games forever, simply because there were no plans to do them on the Spectrum. As I commented on another thread regarding Hewson games, there are entries created on WoS and therefore on the ZXDB based solely on unconfirmed rumours or just the assumption on magazines at the time that if one game was going to be released on C64 for instance, or 16-bit, it would be released on the Spectrum too. Especially Sinclair User on the T'Zers column is full of those unconfirmed rumours or better call them inventions.

I think is great to create an entry if we have and advert announcing coming up Spectrum versions because we have a tangible proof that at least a Spectrum version was in the works or even considered and later discarded (Infodroid, for example). It would be also valid if we have playable demos on magazines (Atomic Robo-Kid or Armalyte), mock-ups (Toki) screenshots (Solar Jetman) or we have testimony from the original developers or software house that one Speccy version was in development. But I think is really daring to create or have entries of games that we don't have nothing about, just an unconfirmed gossip in a tiny and unreliable column in just one magazine and sometimes we don't even have that.

For example, for almost every Hewson game cited on the DB as Never Released, especially Morpheus (released by Rainbird only for the C64), Astaroth, Custodian, Moonfall and Scorpion, will never have any tangible proof that a Speccy version ever existed, because there were no plans to develop a Spectrum version. All of them flopped in other systems, simple as that, and some of them were developed for 16-bit machines only.

When I was reviewing some of the games, I hallucinated when I saw entries for Pipe Mania II and Stunt Car Racer II just because the T'Zers column on Sinclair User said "though whether either is slated in for the Speccy has yet to be announced. Keep your fingers crossed". That commentary is simply crap, nothing more than words to create hype with nothing solid to back it up. And that is just an example of the amount of entries created on a similar basis, in other entries we don't even have a magazine or advertising reference.

Well, just my point.

All the best!

[PeterJ]

Hi [mention]Audionautas[/mention],

If you are happy to collate a list of titles where you believe the evidence is too weak to suggest a title was ever planned for release, we can certainly review.

Unfortunately with most we will never know unless we can talk to someone who worked for the software house at the time. Hewson are still on Twitter for example.


Take a look at Hewson Founder (@HewsonJoystick): https://twitter.com/HewsonJoystick?s=09

What do others think?

An immense amount of work has been done on the WoS data since it was used by [mention]Einar Saukas[/mention] for ZXDB. Many 1000s of updates have been made, so if the data is wrong (and there is something to backup the change, then it's not an issue. Take a look at the little bugs in ZXDB threads.

[Audionautas]

Hi @Audionautas,

If you are happy to collate a list of titles where you believe the evidence is too weak to suggest a title was ever planned for release, we can certainly review.

Unfortunately with most we will never know unless we can talk to someone who worked for the software house at the time. Hewson are still on Twitter for example.


Take a look at Hewson Founder (@HewsonJoystick): https://twitter.com/HewsonJoystick?s=09

What do others think?

An immense amount of work has been done on the WoS data since it was used by @Einar Saukas for ZXDB. Many 1000s of updates have been made, so if the data is wrong (and there is something to backup the change, then it's not an issue. Take a look at the little bugs in ZXDB threads.

Hi [mention]PeterJ[/mention]

I know it has been a huge task to transfer all WoS data to ZXDB (kudos [mention]Einar Saukas[/mention]). I also know that you are trying to keep the data as faithful to WoS as possible and that's Ok. My point is that WoS is not the Bible, is not sacred IMHO. It was a really useful source of information for many years, but a lot of that work that Martijn did was based mainly on magazines from back in the day, including all the incorrect information that those magazines had. In the 90s, when the Internet was in its infancy, it had a lot of sense to rely only on the magazines from the 80s, sure. However nowadays a lot of information can be checked thanks to Retro Gamer, retrocomputing websites, blogs and even you can contact a lot of the authors of those games right away through Twitter, Facebook and so on.

I have been in contact with Rob Hewson since 2014 or so and it's a really lovely guy. The problem with Hewson is that Andrew Hewson was the CEO of the company, not the software producer (a position that held Gordon Hewson first and Paul Chamberlain after Andrew's brother departure), so he doesn't remember a lot of details about the games, simply because he was managing a software company, not testing the games, not coordinating the freelance teams that did every version of the game, etc. Yes, he worked closely with several star programmers like Raf Cecco or John Phillips, but that was it, he wasn't involved in every tiny decision made for every game released. Also a lot of those details are really difficult to remember 35 years later. As I commented in other thread, I tried to contact Paul Chamberlain a couple of years back without results. Anyway, Steve Turner and Andrew Braybrook are easily approchable on Twitter.

IMHO if we want to have a more complete database that improves Martijn's amazing legacy is necessary to include new information and fix the wrong one. Personally to begin with, I can contact Steve Turner for instance to clarify if Graftgold had planned to develop a Spectrum version from Morpheus. Mark Dawson, the author of Astaroth is on Twitter I think, so it wouldn't be difficult to ask him about 8 bit versions of his game.

So, I will try to begin with Hewson first, and then we will see if we can clarify a lot of dubious entries on the ZXDB from other companies.

All the best!

[DouglasReynholm]

Just a small point but T'Zers was a Your Sinclair column, not Sinclair User. Unless I missed a bombshell defection?

[PeterJ]

Hi [mention]Audionautas[/mention],

Let me read your message in full in the morning. I can however say that the comment 'I also know that you are trying to keep the data as faithful to WoS as possible and that's Ok.', is most certainly not the case. The WoS data is an excellent basis and we hugely appreciate the work that went into it by many people, but we certainly don't have any specific wish to stay faithful to it. Far more crucial is accuracy. The infoseek ID is if course crucial as do many websites use it.

[Audionautas]

Just a small point but T'Zers was a Your Sinclair column, not Sinclair User. Unless I missed a bombshell defection?

Sorry, you're right!

[Audionautas]

Hi @Audionautas,

Let me read your message in full in the morning. I can however say that the comment 'I also know that you are trying to keep the data as faithful to WoS as possible and that's Ok.', is most certainly not the case. The WoS data is an excellent basis and we hugely appreciate the work that went into it by many people, but we certainly don't have any specific wish to stay faithful to it. Far more crucial is accuracy. The infoseek ID is if course crucial as do many websites use it.

Sorry, [mention]PeterJ[/mention] my fault. This is a false impression I got after providing some fixing to several Hewson games' entries (see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2470), and seeing that some changes like adding a new author to Pyracurse (providing evidences), or changing other things in Marauder could be difficult. After seeing that those entries remain the same one month and a half later I thought that it would not be easy to make some of the suggested additions on the ZXDB. Anyway, I completely agree that accuracy is crucial in this case.

Thank you.

All the best!

[PeterJ]

Hi [mention]Audionautas[/mention],

ZXDB gets updated around once a month, so things can take a while to get reviewed and put into the database. We are a very small team and work through proposed changes as we can. Some need further discussion which can further delay things.

When [mention]druellan[/mention] has reviewed changes he flags the post with the green reviewed icon as can be seen in some of the posts below.

It's best to keep suggested database changes to these threads. We are into our third thread of these proposed changes, each with 50+ pages, so yes things do take time to process.

Because of the lockdown we have seen a huge increase in new releases which we try and keep up-to-date with too.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2421&hilit=Littke+bugs&start=10

Keep the suggestions coming though and we will review when we are able.

[Audionautas]

Hi @Audionautas,

ZXDB gets updated around once a month, so things can take a while to get reviewed and put into the database. We are a very small team and work through proposed changes as we can. Some need further discussion which can further delay things.

When @druellan has reviewed changes he flags the post with the green reviewed icon as can be seen in some of the posts below.

It's best to keep suggested database changes to these threads. We are into our third thread of these proposed changes, each with 50+ pages, so yes things do take time to process.

Because of the lockdown we have seen a huge increase in new releases which we try and keep up-to-date with too.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2421&hilit=Littke+bugs&start=10

Keep the suggestions coming though and we will review when we are able.

Thank you [mention]PeterJ[/mention] I'll try to make more suggestions in coming weeks.

[druellan]

Sorry, @PeterJ my fault. This is a false impression I got after providing some fixing to several Hewson games' entries (see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2470), and seeing that some changes like adding a new author to Pyracurse (providing evidences), or changing other things in Marauder could be difficult. After seeing that those entries remain the same one month and a half later I thought that it would not be easy to make some of the suggested additions on the ZXDB. Anyway, I completely agree that accuracy is crucial in this case.

Hi! Sorry the delay on that thread. It is in my todo list for some time now, but I decided to postpone it until I finish my works on the "cover artist" thread, sadly (or luckily!), we uncover a lot of information missing for the titles of Players software, so, I'm busy with that, but rest assured your contribution is not overlooked, in fact, we did some back on forth and I have it marked as confirmed, so, it just a matter to finish the other works.

Regarding how difficult could be to do the changes, I think that aspect is secondary, I think it is important to have the reports and make sure they are accurate, and if something is complex, it is going to be done eventually.

Said that, don't hesitate on bring our attention on threads you think we overlooked.

[Audionautas]

Sorry, @PeterJ my fault. This is a false impression I got after providing some fixing to several Hewson games' entries (see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2470), and seeing that some changes like adding a new author to Pyracurse (providing evidences), or changing other things in Marauder could be difficult. After seeing that those entries remain the same one month and a half later I thought that it would not be easy to make some of the suggested additions on the ZXDB. Anyway, I completely agree that accuracy is crucial in this case.

Hi! Sorry the delay on that thread. It is in my todo list for some time now, but I decided to postpone it until I finish my works on the "cover artist" thread, sadly (or luckily!), we uncover a lot of information missing for the titles of Players software, so, I'm busy with that, but rest assured your contribution is not overlooked, in fact, we did some back on forth and I have it marked as confirmed, so, it just a matter to finish the other works.

Regarding how difficult could be to do the changes, I think that aspect is secondary, I think it is important to have the reports and make sure they are accurate, and if something is complex, it is going to be done eventually.

Said that, don't hesitate on bring our attention on threads you think we overlooked.

Thank you [mention]druellan[/mention] In my comment above it was not my intention to seem impatient or impertinent. Simply I didn't exactly know how it works updating Spectrum Computing, and obviously I was not aware of the huge amount of work behind the scenes to keep everything up-to-date month after month. I'll try to contribute whenever I can. In the meantime, keep up the good work!!!

All the best!

[druellan]

Thank you @druellan In my comment above it was not my intention to seem impatient or impertinent.

Oh, don't worry, that was not my interpretation at all! But I feel I owe you an apology, because I was active on that thread asking questions, and then nothing happened

Simply I didn't exactly know how it works updating Spectrum Computing, and obviously I was not aware of the huge amount of work behind the scenes to keep everything up-to-date month after month. I'll try to contribute whenever I can.

Please do! And again, don't hesitate on calling up if you feel something got overlooked.