New WoS and ZXDB

[PeterJ]

Although it's absolutely right to call Lee out over his latest ridiculous stunt, I think SC should otherwise mostly ignore WoS. SC doesn't need to try to outdo WoS. It should just keep trying to be the best site it can, and users can choose where they want to go. As long as we make sure others know SC is an option, let them decide. I'd be pretty confident a large number of them would choose SC, anyway. There will always be some that go to WoS, but so what?

I could not have said it better myself [mention]Rorthron[/mention].

[Vampyre]

Although it's absolutely right to call Lee out over his latest ridiculous stunt, I think SC should otherwise mostly ignore WoS. SC doesn't need to try to outdo WoS. It should just keep trying to be the best site it can, and users can choose where they want to go. As long as we make sure others know SC is an option, let them decide. I'd be pretty confident a large number of them would choose SC, anyway. There will always be some that go to WoS, but so what?

Completely agree. I'm sure most, if not all, of the long term WoS users are fully aware of SC so let them come if/when they're ready. They'll be more than welcome.

For newer users, the more SC can be SEO'd the better. If SEO is still a thing? Been years since i looked.

[4thRock]

Yes SEO is a big thing. Really huge if you run a online shop and need people to find you
But it is an ongoing task, as Google keeps changing the algorithm and you try to guess how to stay head

[Vampyre]

Yes SEO is a big thing. Really huge if you run a online shop and need people to find you
But it is an ongoing task, as Google keeps changing the algorithm and you try to guess how to stay head

I'd heard years ago about Google constantly changing the crawling algorithm and how hard it was to keep up. I guess that equalled in my head that it was now fruitless Or perhaps I convinced my old company on that when it became too much of a ballache.

Second one sounds more like me

[moroz1999]

Page load speed, timeouts and errors are very important today and I think SC does very well in that regard.
When you google for "zx spectrum forum" SC is well positioned I think.
Looking for specific games we also do very well.

Most of all, WOS forum is denied to be indexed by search engines, so it's not a competition to anybody in search engines.

WOS was good because it used to the one, the definitive place to go to submit and share Spec-related information. It's not any more. Let it die. Please.

ZX Community was always a lot larger than WOS alone. WOS always lacked a major part of Eastern ZX scene software and releases due to many reasons (mostly that was a lack of interest). So it was never a definitive number one place to go for Eastern ZX users. I can confidently say from my own observations that nowadays SC is much more popular among ex-USSR users than WOS.

I think the best attitude is to move on.

I can only totally agree to this. A hard work on functionality and a database would always win. SC has initiative, WOS is being many steps behind, just dont lose it.

[namco]

Yes SEO is a big thing. Really huge if you run a online shop and need people to find you
But it is an ongoing task, as Google keeps changing the algorithm and you try to guess how to stay head

I'd heard years ago about Google constantly changing the crawling algorithm and how hard it was to keep up. I guess that equalled in my head that it was now fruitless Or perhaps I convinced my old company on that when it became too much of a ballache.

Second one sounds more like me

Depending on how aggressive you want your strategy to be SEO can be a full-time thing. My tip is to make sure the on-site stuff is pretty airtight and to leverage your strength. As far as I can tell, yours is that you have an up to date db - that'll take WoS a while to catch up to, especially considering how long it took that site to be live. Find a way to strongly promote that and I think you'll start to pull ahead.

It'll take time, sure. WoS does have the branding on its side but if you're aggressive/dedicated enough with it you can get the lead!

[ketmar]

as for me, i frustrated that they decided to split databases. if they will start adding software on their own, it will cause inevitable damage to all Speccy fans, creating unnecessary competition where cooperation would work much better. of course, it is mostly pointless to talk about this here (i.e. it won't change WoS team minds), but i guess people just need to vent their frustration.

also, this thread may be useful for people asking "what's the deal with several databases, can't you simply join your efforts?"

[+3code]

WOS was good because it used to the one, the definitive place to go to submit and share Spec-related information. It's not any more. Let it die. Please.

ZX Community was always a lot larger than WOS alone. WOS always lacked a major part of Eastern ZX scene software and releases due to many reasons (mostly that was a lack of interest).

I agree. The Spectrum community is very large and dispersed. I first met WOS as a central repository but I never used its forums. When FTP and the downloads started to fail there I went on to use SC as a central repository, but I also did not used its forums, I published my demos them on the Spanish forums of speccy.org (here my first demo with CharAde: https://foro.speccy.org/viewtopic.php?f ... 927#p53927) and they were not known outside. Then in last December the site was off-line a few weeks and I started posting my sh*t here, only to do it somewhere, and when the speccy.org forums came back online they happened to have very little activity, so I stayed here. People come and go, websites come and go. Let's just enjoy what we have and make it grow, just. "Be water my friend"

[XTM]

I'm sure most, if not all, of the long term WoS users are fully aware of SC so let them come if/when they're ready. They'll be more than welcome.

Cheers vampyre! Yes, I for one certainly was aware of this place for years and have been reading quite a few things but simply couldn't be bothered to make an account. Back on WoS I was also mostly using the forums anyway, rarely the main site, but I was starting to miss the slowly increasing number of members I knew from the WoS forums who migrated to SC, so it will be nice to be able to talk to them again here.

That said, I won't abandon their forums, it's still decent to shoot the breeze be it on- or offtopic (=non-Speccy talk which I'm sure SC isn't the place for) with some of the old regulars there, so I'll just have the best of both worlds.

[Juan F. Ramirez]

Michael, ... is that you???

Willkommen!!!

[Ralf]

Yes, it must be him. The avatar will tell you the truth
Hi, XTM !

[Vampyre]

I'm sure most, if not all, of the long term WoS users are fully aware of SC so let them come if/when they're ready. They'll be more than welcome.

Cheers vampyre! Yes, I for one certainly was aware of this place for years and have been reading quite a few things but simply couldn't be bothered to make an account. Back on WoS I was also mostly using the forums anyway, rarely the main site, but I was starting to miss the slowly increasing number of members I knew from the WoS forums who migrated to SC, so it will be nice to be able to talk to them again here.

That said, I won't abandon their forums, it's still decent to shoot the breeze be it on- or offtopic (=non-Speccy talk which I'm sure SC isn't the place for) with some of the old regulars there, so I'll just have the best of both worlds.

Welcome to SC! I'm pretty much the same - I doubt I'll be leaving WOS anytime soon, no matter what I was whining about earlier. Got too much time invested in the place and I'll miss my game chats with Boozey! Plus, how else will I know which obscure punk band member has passed away recently

[Ivanzx]

What can I say?? Well, I think everything has already been said. Enormous thanks to [mention]Einar Saukas[/mention] [mention]PeterJ[/mention] [mention]R-Tape[/mention] and all the guys behind ZXDB and SC because they have put so much time and love for this that SC is an awesome resource already. Not many things to say about the other side, let´s stay with the positive,many thanks, guys

[R-Tape]

I heard on the grapevine that there has been some kind of response to this, on the private WoS FB page where we don't have access. Obviously this isn't an attempt to avoid scrutiny, so is someone able to reproduce* it here? I'm sure it would be interesting.

(*A screengrab would be best, as misquoting can't be blamed then.)

[StooB]

I heard on the grapevine that there has been some kind of response to this, on the private WoS FB page where we don't have access. Obviously this isn't an attempt to avoid scrutiny, so is someone able to reproduce* it here? I'm sure it would be interesting.

(*A screengrab would be best, as misquoting can't be blamed then.)

If you mean the Sinclair For Sale fb group, then Richard Chandler said this nonsense on 22/6:



If you mean the Wos facebook group, then I can't help because I'm banned too!

[PeterJ]

That does confirm how little he knows about databases.

[ketmar]

oh, and that BS about "scrapping" again. must be from some secret book "how to ignore the facts and be happy".

[djnzx48]

I noticed something funny on WoS earlier - take a look at the comments section for Joust (specifically, the link).

[PeterJ]

I noticed something funny on WoS earlier - take a look at the comments section for Joust (specifically, the link).

That's an excellent spot!

Strangely 'https://worldofspectrum.org/zxdb/sincla ... /Joust.gif' is not found....



Just to repeat, it's great the WoS are using ZXDB. Just don't try and hide it, and use the latest version. Einar and I have offered to help.

[Einar Saukas]

Good spot!

The same problem is also affecting Captain Slog:

https://worldofspectrum.org/archive/sof ... a-software

[Vampyre]

I heard on the grapevine that there has been some kind of response to this, on the private WoS FB page where we don't have access. Obviously this isn't an attempt to avoid scrutiny, so is someone able to reproduce* it here? I'm sure it would be interesting.

(*A screengrab would be best, as misquoting can't be blamed then.)

If you mean the Sinclair For Sale fb group, then Richard Chandler said this nonsense on 22/6:



If you mean the Wos facebook group, then I can't help because I'm banned too!

What on earth is he bleating on about? Every sentence in that statement is wrong and shows a stunning lack of any kind of knowledge.

[Einar Saukas]

I just replied to these claims at the WoS forum, taking the liberty to reproduce [mention]djnzx48[/mention]'s findings. Thank you very much!

I will reproduce my posts here, in case anyone's interested...

[Einar Saukas]

This post came from the SINCLAIR FOR SALE private group on Facebook:



This is truly bizarre. I provided very detailed proof that new WoS has copied ZXDB while trying to disguise it, posted here in their own public forum. The people that did it is vehemently denying it... but only on private groups where I don't have access (so I cannot dispute their claims), while staying silent in their own forum!

It's kinda like someone saying "These public accusations against me are absurd! I will immediately write a letter refuting everything, but then lock my letter in my own desk to ensure nobody will ever see my answer!"

I hope you don't mind if I post a reply here to your claims:

Where did Einar get his data from? It was scraped from WoS.

No, nothing was scraped. This data was imported directly from Martijn's internal WoS files that Lee Fogarty gave me. It's hard to believe you still don't know this, since I told you again last month.

Secondly WoS could not use ZXDB even if it wanted to as WoS is updated instantly whilst Einar has to make changes manually.

ZXDB is not changed manually anymore. For the last couple years, we have been using a software called ZX-Ed.

And now WoS is using a different software to update its own copy of ZXDB 2018.

Each software can use its own copy of the same database. This argument doesn't prove anything.

I'm no expert on how these things work but I'm pretty sure if ZXDB had been scraped the SC site owner would have noticed.

I'm pretty sure too. But since ZXDB is an open database, nobody had to scrap anything. Instead, Lee Fogarty simply had to download ZXDB from a publicly available link, that's very easy to find. Just go to the official ZXDB repository, click on "commits" and choose the version you want to download. In particular, if you are looking for the same old ZXDB version 1.08 that WoS is currently using, you will get this link (the same I mentioned in my original post):

https://github.com/zxdb/ZXDB/blob/c4bd3 ... _mysql.sql


NOTE: Reproduced from my post at the WoS forum

[Einar Saukas]

Also about this:

I'm no expert on how these things work

OK, let's forget the technical arguments. I will give you a much simpler proof that won't require any technical knowledge.

Visit the Joust page at new WoS:

https://worldofspectrum.org/archive/sof ... ust-softek

Inside "Comments", there's a link on the word "message". Click on it, and you will get an error when it tries to open this page:

Code: Select all

https: //worldofspectrum.org/zxdb/sinclair/pics/Joust.gif

Now visit the Captain Slog page at new WoS:

https://worldofspectrum.org/archive/sof ... a-software

Again, click on word "message" inside "Comments". You will get a new error when it tries to open this page:

Code: Select all

https: //worldofspectrum.org/zxdb/sinclair/pics/CaptainSlog.gif

When Lee Fogarty copied the ZXDB 2018 database, he forgot to modify these links to disguise the fact they are referencing the new ZXDB repository.


EDIT: Modified the way I wrote these links in this post, to make URLs visible

NOTE: Also reproduced from my post at the WoS forum

[Ralf]

That does confirm how little he knows about databases.

I would say he's playing the fool to fool some fools