New WoS and ZXDB

[djnzx48]

There is no valid reason why new WoS can't support the ZXDB-minted id for titles that weren't in old WoS, thus preserving the ZXBD id. That's already been seen, as new titles not in old-WoS that briefly appeared in new WoS had the same id as those in ZXDB.

When did the new titles get added to WoS? I must have missed that when it happened.

[Morkin]

[ test changes in a development or staging area before pushing them out

To be honest this also happens on SC sometimes. I know since I've done it myself

...You gotta live life on the edge sometimes, eh..?

[Mike Davies]

There is no valid reason why new WoS can't support the ZXDB-minted id for titles that weren't in old WoS, thus preserving the ZXBD id. That's already been seen, as new titles not in old-WoS that briefly appeared in new WoS had the same id as those in ZXDB.

When did the new titles get added to WoS? I must have missed that when it happened.

In Einar's initial post on this thread, -- if I remember correctly -- he points out that items with WoS ids higher than old WoS coincidentally showed titles that had the same id in ZXDB. And then they were removed.

[Mike Davies]

[ test changes in a development or staging area before pushing them out

To be honest this also happens on SC sometimes. I know since I've done it myself

On our hobby- and side-projects we all do it, until we get burned enough, then we evolve to deploying things in a more battle-tested way.

But Fogarty has claimed that at his development experience running police websites and banks, and thus applies that experience to WoS -- at the kind of level he implies, you don't do this, ever.

Note: SC doesn't use Apache to serve up static assets, and I believe it's using PHP-FPM -- which is why SC is still quick loading when dealing with traffic levels multiple times higher than what currently takes WoS down. And on a fraction of the computing power. You (SC) are doing some things right, and better than WoS on a technical level.

[djnzx48]

In Einar's initial post on this thread, -- if I remember correctly -- he points out that items with WoS ids higher than old WoS coincidentally showed titles that had the same id in ZXDB. And then they were removed.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it was only the banner on the homepage (advertising 24368 titles) that was removed. I can't see any mention of titles being added or removed from the new site since the initial import.

[Ralf]

But Fogarty has claimed that at his development experience running police websites and banks, and thus applies that experience to WoS -- at the kind of level he implies, you don't do this, ever.

Well, he likes reminding everyone that he's a super-duper professional with twenty years of experience. And when you talk to him he will mention you a lot of cool sounding technologies that makes you feels he's right.

Unofortunately when he actually implements something it usually has a lot of problems. Like new WOS or earlier the new WOS forum engine.

I'll tell you one thing, people. Being a professional doesn't mean you are good at something. It just means that you do it for money.

[ketmar]

I'll tell you one thing, people. Being a professional doesn't mean you are good at something. It just means that you do it for money.

exactly!

also, i have to admit that most "banks" and other "big names" sites are utter crap. slow, overloaded with scripts, with usability worser than a broken hammer, and often full of security holes. so if somebody is really proud of working on that...

p.s.: but i guess he really applied all that expirience to new WoS, so maybe he's not lying here.

[Einar Saukas]

When did the new titles get added to WoS?

They never did, but new WoS contains references to them.

At new WoS, BIFROST* ENGINE belongs to a series (of a single program) called "BIFROST/NIRVANA". Although both NIRVANA engines are new titles that don't exist in WoS yet.

[Einar Saukas]

Since my last post yesterday, all software comments at new WoS have changed. I wonder if this change is somehow related to anything I wrote?

However it was a weird change. Basically all comments were changed from ZXDB 2018 back to Martijn's old WoS content, but discarding title and publisher from old WoS, and keeping IDs in comments taken from ZXDB 2018. It's easier to explain what happened if we look at an example.

Let's talk again about BIFROST* ENGINE. This was the comment from Martijn's old WoS internal file:

Code: Select all

Inspired by {ZXodus Engine|Andrew Owen [2]}.

This is old WoS site using this information:



This was the comment from ZXDB 2018:

Code: Select all

Multicolor 8x1 Graphics Engine (18 char columns x 18 char rows). Inspired by {ZXodus Engine|Andrew Owen [2]|0026639}.

"Coincidentally" it looked exactly like new WoS a few days ago:



Now this is the comment from today's new WoS CSV file:

Code: Select all

Inspired by {software|0026639}.

This is how it appears at new WoS now:



As you can see, Lee Fogarty removed the multicolor explanation added in ZXDB 2018. He also removed title "ZXodus Engine" and publisher "Andrew Owen" from old WoS. He just kept the ID number 0026639 that was added in ZXDB 2018. This kind of change has been done to all comments in WoS now, thus reading comments at WoS don't make much sense anymore.

Frankly these attempts to disguise using ZXDB 2018 at new WoS are just making everything worse!


NOTE: Reproduced from my post at the WoS forum

[polomint]

Jeez, just because he may have done something less good does not mean that the below is true;

`But Fogarty has claimed that at his development experience running police websites and banks, and thus applies that experience to WoS -- at the kind of level he implies, you don't do this, ever.`

We all work to the money and place we work for.

`Well, he likes reminding everyone that he's a super-duper professional with twenty years of experience. And when you talk to him he will mention you a lot of cool sounding technologies that makes you feels he's right.

Unofortunately when he actually implements something it usually has a lot of problems. Like new WOS or earlier the new WOS forum engine.`

yep

`I'll tell you one thing, people. Being a professional doesn't mean you are good at something. It just means that you do it for money.`

Yes, but some of use do it for money, and you cannot disrespect another person unless you have proof

[polomint]

Oh, and stop bitching, it's open db. Who cares who uses it? I coulda used it for months with my ZXiSeek app....

[PeterJ]

[mention]polomint[/mention],

I'm very pleased that WoS are using ZXDB. It's excellent. There is no point in duplication of effort.

The issue is why try and hide it? I don't believe it's bitching (your words) to ask that you comply with an open source license, the only condition of which is to acknowledge that you have forked it. Richard s still blindly denying it. Do you believe this is the right approach? I don't know if this is due to misinformation, or if he has been told not to acknowledge it. Maybe you could ask him?

Both Einar and I have offered to work with the team at WoS so they can use the latest ZXDB.

None of us are getting any younger [mention]polomint[/mention]. I thought after the Vega disaster there may be a new approach to working together and truthfulness.

I would also remind you that ZXDB was only started when there was concern that WoS would close. This site (and the many others that use ZXDB - there seems to be the misguided belief that we at SC and ZXDB are the same thing) were started because WoS hadn't been updated for years, and the forum was going downhill.

I never expected this site to be as successful as it has been. It's success suggests it was needed.

[mention]Einar Saukas[/mention] has a right to request corrections when he is incorrectly slandered don't you think?

[Einar Saukas]

For what it's worth, I never made personal attacks. I only posted facts, and I have always provided evidence to back it up.

However:

Oh, and stop bitching, it's open db. Who cares who uses it? I coulda used it for months with my ZXiSeek app....

As I said before, I'm glad Lee Fogarty finally decided to use ZXDB. I hope he continues to do so. Everyone is welcome to use ZXDB (including your ZXiSeek of course). That's not the point.

The point is, I was personally accused of "stealing" data from Martijn's WoS, only 4 days before he released new WoS using ZXDB in disguise, while pretending otherwise and trying to take credit for everyone else's work. And he's still claiming that I'm lying about him using ZXDB, although now he only does it in his private WoS group at Facebook where he doesn't have to face proofs otherwise. Therefore I'm entitled to defend myself, right?

[polomint]

The point is, I was personally accused of "stealing" data from Martijn's WoS, only 4 days before he released new WoS using ZXDB in disguise, while pretending otherwise and trying to take credit for everyone else's work

That is something else that has nothing to do with the forums. Sort it out somewhere else. I absolutely agree that personal accusations should be refuted if they need to be.

But arguing about an open db is essentially a waste of time (bar the excitement for bored retro err people).

We all like both WoSF and SC, let's not poison and feckup both!

[polomint]

I have proof...

https://bit.ly/2VI5ow1

[Einar Saukas]

That is something else that has nothing to do with the forums.

The accusations against me were made in the WoS forum.

Sort it out somewhere else.

Where?

[PeterJ]

I agree with you [mention]polomint[/mention] that we don't want to 'feck' things up.

The issue is that [mention]Einar Saukas[/mention] was slandered on a public forum, where else can he take his concerns.

All that needs to happen is for WoS to apologise to Einar, acknowledge usage of ZXDB and use the latest version. I'm sure all will then be fine with this issue and we can have a group hug (1 metre apart obviously!).

[ketmar]

Sort it out somewhere else.

Where?

somewhere where nobody will see it, of course, so Lee and his team can continue accusing you of "stealing data". this would be "wise move", you know, because calling liar a liar publicly is soooo wrong.

[polomint]

I agree with you @polomint that we don't want to 'feck' things up.

The issue is that @Einar Saukas was slandered on a public forum, where else can he take his concerns.

All that needs to happen is for WoS to apologise to Einar, acknowledge usage of ZXDB and use the latest version. . I'm sure all will then be fine with this issue and we can have a group hug (1 metre apart obviously!).

No, if EInar has been slandered then take it elsewhere,

As for WoSF and SC , just talk, and agree, it's not bloody hard to work out

[PeterJ]

I don't understand where. If you were slandered in public would you discuss it privately and not expect a correction? I know I would.

I think we have done everything possible and offered to help WoS. I'm not sure what else we can do. You are friends with Richard. You could talk with him and arrange for him to call me.

[1024MAK]

... and we can have a group hug (1 metre apart obviously!).

Err, TWO metres apart unless you are using medical grade PPE mask, face guard, protective suit, gloves etc...

Mark

[PeterJ]

Err, TWO metres apart unless you are using medical grade PPE mask, face guard, protective suit, gloves etc...

Mark

Apologies [mention]1024MAK[/mention]. You are quite right. The 1M does not start until Saturday 4th July (England). By the way, who on earth came up with the idea of re-opening all the pubs on a Saturday....

[Einar Saukas]

Back on topic...

Although new WoS contains an online update tool, very few changes have been made using it. Most recent changes were applied directly to the database in a hurry, as reaction to the evidences I have been posting here

New WoS was launched 18 days ago (June 15th). During this time, there were 12 relevant changes to individual entries in new WoS, except for "RZX files" added manually one by one (which is nonsense since they can be imported all at once from latest ZXDB version). They are listed here:

https://worldofspectrum.org/archive/whats_new

One of them was additional comments for an adventure called "Werner's Quest". ZXDB didn't change this comment since it was imported from Martijn's old WoS. So this is how it appears at SpectrumComputing for instance:



On June 17th, new comments were added using new WoS online update tool, so it looked like this:



Yesterday, when Fogarty Lee was in a hurry to revert all comments taken from ZXDB 2018, he ended up reverting his own changes too. This is how it appears in new WoS now:



Notice how these additional comments vanished, although it still shows it was updated on June 17th. Ouch!


NOTE: Reproduced from my post at the WoS forum

[hitm4n]

This soap opera is amazing... I've got popcorn !

[Rorthron]

This soap opera is amazing... I've got popcorn !

Next Martijn's going to walk out of the shower and say it was all just a nightmare.