ZXDB and ZX-Art

This is the place for general discussion and updates about the ZXDB Database. This forum is not specific to Spectrum Computing.

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moroz1999
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by moroz1999 »

Aren't these separated releases then? If I make a program and decide to support different formats, then I compile it separately for each platform, it has differences in code, so I make different versions which are independent from each other and can be used independently. They can even have different bugs in result! So imho they should be separated, so they could be commented separately. That's not a really big deal though.
I understand your logic, but again, it seems like we are calling the different things with the same name. Your logic is based upon a fact that different "versions" are "released" simultaneously by the same author, I understand it.
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by kolbeck »

moroz1999 wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:58 pm Aren't these separated releases then? If I make a program and decide to support different formats, then I compile it separately for each platform, it has differences in code, so I make different versions which are independent from each other and can be used independently. They can even have different bugs in result! So imho they should be separated, so they could be commented separately. That's not a really big deal though.
I understand your logic, but again, it seems like we are calling the different things with the same name. Your logic is based upon a fact that different "versions" are "released" simultaneously by the same author, I understand it.
I don't see emulator formats related to releases or platforms. Lets take an example, Head over Heels was released by Ocean (lets call that release 1) - and later it was re-released by Hit-Squad (with new inlays and maybe changed text in the game) - lets call that release 2.

So.. back in beginning with emulators, the ONLY way to save was by generating a .SNA or .Z80 emulator snapshot file - in this case, two different formats by the exact same game/release. Later on emulators improved and .TAP file format was invented, which in this case just adds another file to the exact same game. Today we have a bunch of formats, but back then it was only released as release 1. Loading up the formats in the emulators would (in theory) result in the exact same code across all formats) - This is why I talk about different downloads for the same release.

That said, you might have a point when we are talking distribution media - for example tape vs microdrive vs disk. Thundercats where released on tape and on +3 disc, today they are just different downloads of the same game, but maybe they are separate releases or versions?

/T
https://api.zxinfo.dk/v3/ - ZXDB API for developers
zxinfo-file-browser - Cross platform app to manage your files
https://zxinfo.dk - another ZXDB frontend
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Einar Saukas
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by Einar Saukas »

moroz1999 wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:51 amMay be I should have named it "versions" not "releases". That would fit my concept idea much better.
Agreed!

We should definitely avoid giving the same name to different things.

Therefore you will have this:
* Each ENTRY can have many VERSIONS.
* Each VERSION can have just one playable file (but perhaps many additional materials as screenshots, cover art and so on). Moreover each VERSION will have it's format, it's supported hardware and supported language.

The question is, will you also implement support for RELEASES? In this case, each ENTRY could have many RELEASES, and each RELEASE could have many VERSIONS.

moroz1999 wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:51 amAnd I've written it just to demonstrate that integer PK in most cases is not redundant, it's really practical as a GUID for integration. Much more practical than md5 (entry_id + release_seq + file_link) or simply (entry_id + release_seq + file_link).
Frankly, it makes no difference. Using an arbitrary number ID as PK, or using a number calculated from composite natural keys as PK, is just a technicality that affects the size of the PK you need to store, that's all. You still need to understand, map and handle the same underlying information in exactly the same way.

Anyway I have already restored ID in table DOWNLOADS, thus feel free to use it for integration. I still plan to add CRC32 in this table later but, when I do it, I will preserve these IDs separately (but easily accessible) for you, so it won't affect your integration. OK?
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Einar Saukas
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by Einar Saukas »

moroz1999 wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:58 pmI understand your logic, but again, it seems like we are calling the different things with the same name. Your logic is based upon a fact that different "versions" are "released" simultaneously by the same author, I understand it.
Exactly!

These are different VERSIONS that were RELEASED simultaneously by the same author/publisher.

This sentence perfectly fits the concept of VERSIONS in ZX-Art and RELEASES in ZXDB.

Perhaps I should consider to have both RELEASES and VERSIONS in ZXDB. And perhaps you should consider to have both RELEASES and VERSIONS in ZX-Art :)
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moroz1999
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by moroz1999 »

Einar Saukas wrote: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:53 pm Perhaps I should consider to have both RELEASES and VERSIONS in ZXDB. And perhaps you should consider to have both RELEASES and VERSIONS in ZX-Art :)
I'm too tired already to even think about it :lol: :lol:
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moroz1999
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by moroz1999 »

I've got a new problem, now with authors. It seems like at some point some label ids have been changed. For example, Alexander Haydukov was earlier 18742, but now he has ID 18743. How do you think, is it possible?

The problem is that I'm using author IDs to link back to Spectrum Computing:
https://zxart.ee/eng/authors/a/akio-tenshi - like here.

I can use label names instead of IDs, since names don't change that much, but would I be able to make a backlink to author's profile in that case?
Please advise.

What I'm trying to achieve: I'm making a large aggregator of all known ZX-related archives, which would incorporate the information from all sources and make it available via web-based JSON API (already done, will post the documentation here soon). This includes disk adaptations, tape cracks, scene demos and so on - everything. Games clearly denied for distribution are not distributed, this is for sure.
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Joefish
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by Joefish »

On the subject of ZX-Art, aren't hosts of ZXDB expected to secure their own permissions for hosting downloads?
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Einar Saukas
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by Einar Saukas »

moroz1999 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:20 amI've got a new problem, now with authors. It seems like at some point some label ids have been changed. For example, Alexander Haydukov was earlier 18742, but now he has ID 18743. How do you think, is it possible?
Until last year, IDs were dynamically assigned by SQL automatically generated from spreadsheets. Changes to the spreadsheet data always regenerated the SQL thus frequently reassigned IDs.

Since we started using ZX-Ed for all updates in January, this problem doesn't happen anymore (except for download IDs that are not managed by ZX-Ed yet).

Sorry about it!
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moroz1999
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by moroz1999 »

Joefish wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:29 pm On the subject of ZX-Art, aren't hosts of ZXDB expected to secure their own permissions for hosting downloads?
In ideal world - yes. But, unfortunately, there we have not many resources to deal with this question, so the current way is:
1. If something is denied for WoS/ZXDB, then it's not distributed on ZX-Art.
2. If something is undefined for WoS/ZXDB, then it's distributed on ZX-Art the same way as it's distributed on WoS.
3. If something is allowed for WoS/ZXDB, then it's distributed on ZX-Art until the first demand on removal.

That's not ideal, but unfortunately it's either this way or no way at all.
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moroz1999
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by moroz1999 »

Einar Saukas wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:10 pm Until last year, IDs were dynamically assigned by SQL automatically generated from spreadsheets. Changes to the spreadsheet data always regenerated the SQL thus frequently reassigned IDs.

Since we started using ZX-Ed for all updates in January, this problem doesn't happen anymore (except for download IDs that are not managed by ZX-Ed yet).

Sorry about it!
Thank you! No problem, I will just re-import the labels information into existing authors and groups. I will then stick to IDs, so I could properly make a backlink to all known profiles on all known websites.
The main goal of having persistant IDs is having an accurate database covering same persons/groups from official games, crack scene and demoscene. My goal is preserving all the software related to ZX and making it available for backing up/copying where not prohibited by law.
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Joefish
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by Joefish »

moroz1999 wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:26 pm In ideal world - yes. But, unfortunately, there we have not many resources to deal with this question, so the current way is:
1. If something is denied for WoS/ZXDB, then it's not distributed on ZX-Art.
2. If something is undefined for WoS/ZXDB, then it's distributed on ZX-Art the same way as it's distributed on WoS.
3. If something is allowed for WoS/ZXDB, then it's distributed on ZX-Art until the first demand on removal.

That's not ideal, but unfortunately it's either this way or no way at all.
So when an item is specifically marked, for example:
"Redistribution of this game is only permitted on sites and services with the explicit consent of the author".
You're not even going to ask a signed up member of your own site if they mind? *ahem* :mrgreen:
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moroz1999
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by moroz1999 »

Sorry, couldn't have traced everything :D
I've marked the game on ZX-Art as "denied" currently - there was no intention to make any harm or demotivate anybody, it was automatically imported and since it has an "allowed" status, it was not automatically hidden for downloading/playing online.

This made me thinking about a new type of permission in ZXDB database: someting like "Allowed explicitly on ZXDB", so I could automatically mark such releases as denied on ZX-Art with an external link to a permitted download.
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by PeterJ »

[mention]moroz1999[/mention]

I will email you a list.

Peter
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Joefish
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by Joefish »

I didn't mean that! I just meant you could have asked!
Argggh!

Yes, OK, you can host Buzzsaw+ (Foxton Locks Mix) and Buzzsaw+ (Dim Sun Edition) on ZXArt. I like the site!
But please post the same message about downloading and hosting permissions.

You probably have other members who are coders you could ask too...
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moroz1999
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by moroz1999 »

Seems like releases.releases_seq has been changed after all? So my key strings based on entry_id + release_seq are now wrong and pointing to wrong releases?
This is why ID number is better than some combinations of properties. You can assign another entry_id, you can rearrange releases by changing release_seq, but releases would have stayed the same.
I will now have to figure out the way to reassign automatically all releases from ZXDB to releases on ZXArt. And that's not really easy task, because I cannot just delete everything and create it from scratch: the information has already been aggregated from other databases and sources.
I think I will stop rechecking the whole database and only add the new entries, that's too frustrating to newly invent the same wheel after almost every update of ZXDB.
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Einar Saukas
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Re: ZXDB and ZX-Art

Post by Einar Saukas »

moroz1999 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:29 pmSeems like releases.releases_seq has been changed after all? So my key strings based on entry_id + release_seq are now wrong and pointing to wrong releases?
My apologies. Old WoS had quite a few cases of incorrectly ordered releases, such as a re-release #3 from 1984 and re-release #4 from 1983. They were all fixed a while ago at once.

I can give you a list of all these changes, so you can easily update your database accordingly.

moroz1999 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:29 pmThis is why ID number is better than some combinations of properties. You can assign another entry_id, you can rearrange releases by changing release_seq, but releases would have stayed the same.
If I added a single ID to all releases now, I don't think it would help. Reordering releases won't happen again, all incorrectly ordered releases were already done. Except for this, every other change related to releases are either merging two releases, splitting a release in two, replacing a publisher, moving a publisher to another release, etc.
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