How to handle aliases?

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druellan
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How to handle aliases?

Post by druellan »

How are aliases being handled on the database?

For example, I'm looking at Antonio Perez aka Greenwebsevilla. On this game, he is credited using his real name:

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But on this one, he is credited using his alias:

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This is really not a problem on SCUK. You can search for both "Antonio Perez" or "Greenwebsevilla" and you get all the author games as result, but on zxinfo.dk, you have discrepancies between the searches.


But besides that, I there a protocol to follow or you're using different fields for names and aliases?
Thanks!
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by druellan »

Ping here? [mention]Einar Saukas[/mention]
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by Einar Saukas »

My apologies for the late reply. I have been so busy lately that I didn't have time to go through relevant topics in this forum.

Ideally ZXDB should respect the author's choice for credits. If a certain author prefers to release main games as "Dave Hughes", and crap CSSCGC entries as "R-Tape", that's exactly how ZXDB should store it.

There are even authors that use different aliases for different kinds of games. For instance, Costa Panayi released Collision Course under pseudonym "H. Ziehms" because he didn't think the game was good enough. That's an interesting information to keep in ZXDB.

Of course there's no need for extremism. A title screen signed as "D. Hughes" should be still credited to "Dave Hughes", since that's just an abbreviation, not a new pseudonym.

To be honest this rule was never enforced and it's my fault, because I never paid much attention to it. I'm adding this adjust to my TODO list, but there are many other priorities so don't expect it to be fixed any time soon...
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by R-Tape »

I'll need to check it out but the Greenwebsevilla example is probably an inconsistency on my part. It's all part of the learning curve so should become increasingly rare.
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by druellan »

My apologies for the late reply.
No Problem!
Ideally ZXDB should respect the author's choice for credits. If a certain author prefers to release main games as "Dave Hughes", and crap CSSCGC entries as "R-Tape", that's exactly how ZXDB should store it.
Agree.
There are even authors that use different aliases for different kinds of games. For instance, Costa Panayi released Collision Course under pseudonym "H. Ziehms" because he didn't think the game was good enough. That's an interesting information to keep in ZXDB.
Aha. But in that case you can use "Costa Panayi" as the author, add "H. Ziehms" as a know alias for the author (so a search for that string returns Costa's games), and then write on the comments about Costa's alias.
Of course there's no need for extremism. A title screen signed as "D. Hughes" should be still credited to "Dave Hughes", since that's just an abbreviation, not a new pseudonym.
Yes! For example here Dark Fusion the authors are not using their real names,

Image

but it is kind of a joke, they are not hiding or anything like that.
So, I think I prefer to have real names displayed, and if the fact they are using aliases worth mentioning, we can use the "comments" section (*).
I'll need to check it out but the Greenwebsevilla example is probably an inconsistency on my part.
Oh ok! But, going back to my original question, then, if I see an alias instead of a proper name, worth reporting, right?

Thanks!!

(*) I really don't want to keep adding thoughts to the discussion, but this kind of things makes me wonder if can be useful to have a proper "trivia" table linked to the title. That way we can have multiple entries per title, and the comments section can be used for more technical details about the image, the preservation, etc.
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by R-Tape »

druellan wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 am Oh ok! But, going back to my original question, then, if I see an alias instead of a proper name, worth reporting, right?
When it looks like an inconsistency in the DB rather than an author choice, yep. It might not always be clear though.
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by Einar Saukas »

druellan wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 amAha. But in that case you can use "Costa Panayi" as the author, add "H. Ziehms" as a know alias for the author (so a search for that string returns Costa's games), and then write on the comments about Costa's alias.
Storing useful information as comments should be a last resort, because it makes impractical to retrieve information automatically.

For instance, how many commercial titles were released with authors credited by nickname instead of real name? The rule I described would support searches like this. Storing information as comments instead of structured data wouldn't provide any advantage.

druellan wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 amYes! For example here Dark Fusion the authors are not using their real names,

Image

but it is kind of a joke, they are not hiding or anything like that.
Exactly. They are not using pseudonyms, this is only a joke. Therefore they shouldn't be credited by pseudonyms in this case.

druellan wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 amSo, I think I prefer to have real names displayed
That's different.

Another advantage of the ZXDB rule I described is, all information is easily accessible so each website can display it however they prefer. Thus SC or ZXInfo have the option to credit Dave's main games as "Dave Hughes (UK)" and crap games as "R-Tape [Dave Hughes] (UK)" without changes to ZXDB.

druellan wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 amOh ok! But, going back to my original question, then, if I see an alias instead of a proper name, worth reporting, right?
Please report the opposite! :)

druellan wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 am(*) I really don't want to keep adding thoughts to the discussion, but this kind of things makes me wonder if can be useful to have a proper "trivia" table linked to the title. That way we can have multiple entries per title, and the comments section can be used for more technical details about the image, the preservation, etc.
Basically everything we currently have stored under comments is trivia information. Can you please elaborate on the difference you have in mind between trivia and comments? Any specific examples?
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by druellan »

Einar Saukas wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:31 pm
druellan wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:45 amAha. But in that case you can use "Costa Panayi" as the author, add "H. Ziehms" as a know alias for the author (so a search for that string returns Costa's games), and then write on the comments about Costa's alias.
Storing useful information as comments should be a last resort, because it makes impractical to retrieve information automatically.
Yes! That's my point. The alias should be part of the database, but the reason WHY the author has decided to use it, this is something that could be part of the comments IMO.
Einar Saukas wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:31 pmPlease report the opposite! :)
Ah! yes, to spot aliases. Got it.
Einar Saukas wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:31 pmAnother advantage of the ZXDB rule I described is, all information is easily accessible so each website can display it however they prefer. Thus SC or ZXInfo have the option to credit Dave's main games as "Dave Hughes (UK)" and crap games as "R-Tape [Dave Hughes] (UK)" without changes to ZXDB.
Oh, I think I get it now. Yes! This is cool.

Ok, I think I'm starting to get it. I just want to be sure I'm not wasting someone's time when reporting things.
So, for "modern" titles, I think that unless I see something the feels like a mistake, I can assume that if the author is using an alias, it is because he/she wants to remain anonymous.
For "historic" preservation, we can discuss if the real name should be added along the alias?
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by druellan »

Einar Saukas wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:31 pmBasically everything we currently have stored under comments is trivia information. Can you please elaborate on the difference you have in mind between trivia and comments? Any specific examples?
Well, it came to my mind thinking what to do if I wanted to start populating the comments with info and anecdotes we now have from the authors, for example: Head over Heels:

- Appears in the book 1001 Video Games You Must Play Before You Die by General Editor Tony Mott.
- Listed in the A to Z of Classic Games article
- Listed on Heaven: Music of the Gods
- Best Arcade Adventure 1987 (readers choice, Chash magazine)
- Most Challenging Game 1987 (readers choice, Crash magazne)
- #3 Best Atari XL Game '87 (Power Play)
- October 2004 (Issue #9) – #35 Best Game Of All Time (Readers' Vote, Retro Gamer)
- "Head is actually based on an original cartoon character called The Park Creature, who was an animal trying to get by living on an industrial estate, surrounded by thugs and dumbies. As for Heels, that came from wanting to give it a bulldog-chewing-a-wasp look - a reference to the fact that he had to carry Head around most of the time!" - Jon Ritman, Eurogamer, 2016
- The original name was Foot and Mouth, but when Ritman showed the game at Ocean's, David Ward exclaimed, 'We can't call it that!'". So, the name was changed to Head over Heels.

As you can see, can be a lot for some titles, and if you try to display everything on "comments" the section will start to feel bloated, and important comments, like the game running only on a Pentagon, or the need of a lightgun emulation to play it, will become mixed in between.

So, regarding to the actual comments, I think should be related to the preservation (how to emulate the game, loading screens missing, the only copy is a pirated one, etc), not for historical facts. So:

For me this is trivia, since it is kind of interesting, but really it is non really important to the preservation effort:
Image
Image

This are comments, since they are not redacted, just useful information if you want to run the game
Image
Image

BTW, thank you guys for taking the time and reply to my crazy thinking! :D
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by Einar Saukas »

druellan wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:17 pmFor "historic" preservation, we can discuss if the real name should be added along the alias?
Do you mean discussing if the real name should be displayed along the alias in SC? That's a decision for [mention]PeterJ[/mention] since that's a website related change that doesn't depend on ZXDB...
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by druellan »

Einar Saukas wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:17 pm Do you mean discussing if the real name should be displayed along the alias in SC? That's a decision for @PeterJ since that's a website related change that doesn't depend on ZXDB...
Oh, yes. I mean at presentation level.
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by Einar Saukas »

druellan wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:30 pmAs you can see, can be a lot for some titles, and if you try to display everything on "comments" the section will start to feel bloated, and important comments, like the game running only on a Pentagon, or the need of a lightgun emulation to play it, will become mixed in between.
We have specific fields to indicate Pentagon (min. machine type) and lightgun (groups). This information shouldn't be in comments.

The comments field is intended to store the kind of additional information you consider trivia...

druellan wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:30 pmSo, regarding to the actual comments, I think should be related to the preservation (how to emulate the game, loading screens missing, the only copy is a pirated one, etc), not for historical facts.
I don't see the need to use comments to describe how to emulate the game. It should be obvious from the hardware requirements.

There's already a boolean column in table ENTRIES to indicate games that don't have loading screens, so there's no need to use comments for this information either.

If the only available file is a pirated version, this information is indicated in the file itself, not in the comments section of the game.

druellan wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:30 pmThis are comments, since they are not redacted, just useful information if you want to run the game
Image
The similarity to another game is not relevant for running the game. I think it qualifies as trivia.

druellan wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:30 pm Image
The comment "128K only" is redundant. The same information is clearly visible in "machine type". I will remove this comment in the next ZXDB update. Thanks for pointing this out!

druellan wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:30 pmBTW, thank you guys for taking the time and reply to my crazy thinking! :D
Thank you for bringing up this discussion! I appreciate the chance to revaluate ZXDB and look for possible improvements. In particular, displaying real names next to aliases was a good idea, I hope Peter will implement it :)
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by druellan »

Einar Saukas wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:06 pm We have specific fields to indicate Pentagon (min. machine type) and lightgun (groups). This information shouldn't be in comments.
The comments field is intended to store the kind of additional information you consider trivia...
Oh! interesting! Great! So, the confusion I have is more related to the necessity of a cleanup of the comments that are now redundant, than the need of an extra table to keep posting trivia.
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by Einar Saukas »

druellan wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:28 pm
Einar Saukas wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:06 pm We have specific fields to indicate Pentagon (min. machine type) and lightgun (groups). This information shouldn't be in comments.
The comments field is intended to store the kind of additional information you consider trivia...
Oh! interesting! Great! So, the confusion I have is more related to the necessity of a cleanup of the comments that are now redundant, than the need of an extra table to keep posting trivia.
I think so :)

I have been doing a lot of cleanup since ZXDB started. But that's not something worth announcing, unlike adding new titles for instance.

If you spot further opportunities for cleanup, please let me know!
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Re: How to handle aliases?

Post by druellan »

Yeah, I'm starting to use more and more the database, I want to start pointing this kind of things, details that usually are left for later, and usually "later" never arrives.
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