The "Maze" genre

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R-Tape
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The "Maze" genre

Post by R-Tape »

Does anyone fancygoing through the "Maze" genre and checking for incorrectly classified genres? Or pointing out the grey areas?

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... genre=Maze

Acolyte doesn't look like a maze game to me. Same for The Plot and some of the Mojon Twins games there.

Would anyone like to suggest a good way of classifying this genre in a few sentences?
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by Ralf »

You know that you are trying to open a can of worms? ;)
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druellan
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by druellan »

Ralf wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:25 pm You know that you are trying to open a can of worms? ;)
Indeed and I love it :D

So, for start, there a are a lot of games that have big and complex maps, listed as "Maze", for example:
Wriggler - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 96&id=5761
Xadom - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 96&id=5770

They don't look as a traditional "maze" game, but Xadom generates a random maze on every start, so, I can see the relation.
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by Ralf »

Okay, I'll try to make some rules.

1. If it doesn't look like a maze (which is walls and corridors) then it's not a maze game even if there is a complex map in the game

Example currently listed as maze: Brat Attack
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.php?cat=96&id=682
Image

2. If it has a side view and platforms then it's a platformer, even if action goes in some kind of maze:

Example currently listed as maze: Aquasquad
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.php?cat=96&id=230
Image

What would you say about it?

And actually I'll repeat what I said earlier - in perfect world it's possible that a game belongs to several genres.
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by MrPixel »

Friday the 13th for nes has a confusing map but i's not a maze game...or is it ;)
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Juan F. Ramirez
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

I had a quick view in the link [mention]R-Tape[/mention] provided and spotted that the maze concept has been considered in an (very) wide view.

For example, Alien Syndrome is included as a maze game. By the same analogy, games like Atic Atac, Sabre Wulf or Everyone's a Wally should be included too.

For me, a maze game should be any game in wich a labirynth is the main important part of the game, the esence. As Ralf said, with walls and corridors. And with an arcade component. It shouldn't be included if it's got an adventure component. But I reckon in some cases it's hard to see the 'border' between them.

Back in the day, magazines used to clasify games through a small bunch of genres: board, sport, arcade, adventure, strategy and text adventure, no need to go deeper.

Just my two cents :)
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by R-Tape »

What would you say about it?
Now that I've started this, the more I realise defining it is difficult!

The dictionary definition of a maze is:
"A network of paths designed to confuse"
That would rule out Pacman even though we KNOW it's a maze game.

I was going to say the following, but I keep finding examples that refute it.
The most dominant property defines the genre, something I think we get a good feel for quickly. So Microbot or SQIJ 2018 are Action even though negotiating a maze is an important part, though again you could say the same for Pacman but we know it's maze. Psytraxx would be a grey area for me, it's like Microbot but the map is huge (I would accept Action or Maze for that). I suspect a platform game that is a Maze game is possible, but I need to search for an example.
Of the examples so far, I think this is how they should be classified:

I think Aquasquad, Brat Attack and Acolyte should be changed to Arcade: Action.

I think Wriggler & Xadom should remain Maze games.

Friday 13th for NES looks more mazey than our crappy version, I'm jealous of everything about it!

Additional: None of the Mojon Twins' games should be Maze. 4 Minute Warning definitely not.

Perhaps willing parties (Me, Druellan?, Ralf?, Juan?, anyone else?)* could check every example and pick the ones they think should be reclassified. I have a feeling we'll get good correlation.

*no pressure
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by R-Tape »

Juan F. Ramirez wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:41 pm For me, a maze game should be any game in wich a labirynth is the main important part of the game, the essence. As Ralf said, with walls and corridors. And with an arcade component. It shouldn't be included if it's got an adventure component. But I reckon in some cases it's hard to see the 'border' between them.
Definitely, perhaps impossible. Project Future? Cybernoid? Taffy Turner? Scumball? Argh!

What if we try marking each entry out of 5? Say 3D Monster chase is a 5, Pacman is ? What is NOT maze? and go from there?
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by hikoki »

To me being of Maze genre means the main goal of the game is to avoid getting lost. So many text adventures qualify as a better maze than Pacman despite not having physical walls. Tenebra Macabre and Dark Castle would be more Maze than Platformer.
Another definition could be that tracks, routes or sceneries are crucial to beat enemies or find a way out. Pacman, Tron, Tourmaline.
Games where the Maze element is predominant could be those where items to collect are specially difficult to find.
Last edited by hikoki on Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by ZXDunny »

Sabre Wulf is definitely a maze game.
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by Kweepa »

You need to add a 'maziness' score to each game, out of 69,105.
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

I think this thread is a monster we have just created! :lol:
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by hikoki »

Aquasquad, the weird control in diagonals makes the scenery easy to bump into so it seems all about how to move around rocks.

Brat Attack, finding items seems to be more important than action. That's why it was catalogued as Maze?
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by R-Tape »

hikoki wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:44 am Brat Attack, finding items seems to be more important than action. That's why it was catalogued as Maze?
Hmmm not convinced. I think it should look and/or feel like a maze, this is just running around. I this should be in the same category as Joe Blade, which IMO arguably should be changed from Arcade: Adventure to Arcade: Action (!)
ZXDunny wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:30 pm Sabre Wulf is definitely a maze game.
I don't think this would be out of place in Maze, Adventure or Action.

Ant Attack is down as maze, surely better as Arcade: Adventure? or Action?
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

Just checked the first ten pages of R-Tape's link and I found these games that, in my opinion, shouldn't be considered as maze games:

ALIEN SYNDROME
ANT ATTACK
ANTIC (THE BIRD & THE BEES II)
AQUASQUAD
ARANEUS
ASTRO
AVEN
AZATOTH
BABALIBA
BLACK BEARD
BLOOD & GUTS
BRAIN STORM
BRAT ATTACK
CAPTAIN FIZZ
CAPTAIN KELLY
CAPTAIN SLOG
LA CASA STREGATA
THE CENTURIONS
CHIMERA
THE COVENANT
CYBEX
DEACTIVATORS
DEJA VU
DEJA VU II

Araneus & Astro are two BASIC games I reviewed some time ago in the MH Cassette thread. The first might be considered as a board game, the second, clearly an arcade game.

Some other are in the list maybe because of an error. For example, Chimera is an adventure, isometric style as Alien 8 or Movie. The same to Babaliba or Black Beard, that takes place on a pirate boat. Blood & Guts takes place inside an human body and is clearly an arcade adventure.
Last edited by Juan F. Ramirez on Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by hikoki »

R-Tape wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:22 am Hmmm not convinced. I think it should look and/or feel like a maze, this is just running around. I this should be in the same category as Joe Blade, which IMO arguably should be changed from Arcade: Adventure to Arcade: Action (!)
Action seems just a secondary filler to make gameplay less dull. You have to find dummies and backtrack to the next baby and that's it. As there are neither platforms nor adventure elements I can see the logic of the archivist.
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by druellan »

R-Tape wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:04 pmI think Wriggler & Xadom should remain Maze games.
For me Xadom and Pac-Man are the examples we need to have in mind. In Xadom the maze concept is used to confuse the player, but you don't see the maze as such. In Pac-Man, the maze is literally in front of you eyes.
Chimera is an adventure, isometric style as Alien 8 or Movie
Yeah, I think Wriggler is a good example of how much you can push the concept of maze on a game that ultimately is just and adventure with a complex map. On Wriggler you can see the intention of the author was to confuse the player. Chimera and Alien 8 are just games with a map.

And what about snake games?:
Acorralado - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=18496

There are versions that have walls and obstacles, but in the end the maze is being formed by the snake, it is kind of a side effect of other game features.
R-Tape wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:04 pmPerhaps willing parties (Me, Druellan?, Ralf?, Juan?, anyone else?)* could check every example and pick the ones they think should be reclassified. I have a feeling we'll get good correlation.
Yeah, I think there are some that can be discussed, but others are really not maze games.
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by druellan »

Not a maze game IMO:

4 Minute Warning - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=15577 - We can discuss if furniture and three rooms can become a "maze"
Acolyte - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=22902 - More like an adventure game perhaps?
Alien Bank - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=16162 - more like a platformer
Alien - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.php?cat=96&id=144 - more like a survival game
Alien Mind - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=31999 - puzzle game
Alien Mind Mod - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=33405
Alien [2] - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=18600 - looking for an image to test, but does not look like a maze
Alta Tension - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=24660 - also no file for testing, but looks like a logic game
Anakonda - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=25205 - not sure about this one
Apples - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=27438 - lovely! but not much of a maze
Avtoralli - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=25206

Games that are just big maps:

Alien Fiend - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=14503
Airbase Invader - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.php?cat=96&id=116
Alien Serch - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=23541 - I'm unable to play it, but looks like a map game
Avenger - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.php?cat=96&id=351
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

Ant Attack is clearly an adventure game
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by MrPixel »

Juan F. Ramirez wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:06 am I think this thread is a monster we have just created! :lol:
Yes, It's called the Frankenthread :lol:
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by R-Tape »

Top stuff fellas, won't have time to have a look myself until next week.
druellan wrote: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:26 pm And what about snake games?:
Acorralado - https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=18496

There are versions that have walls and obstacles, but in the end the maze is being formed by the snake, it is kind of a side effect of other game features.
Not for me. I'd put Snake under Action unless there was something unusual about it. The blocks are always too sparse to be a maze, and IMO the 'maze' effect created by the snake is too subtle a side effect to count. I can't imagine anyone searching for a maze game with that in mind.

(Waits for someone to point to a game that refutes this, "Snakes in a Maze" or something.)
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

This is the second batch of games (always IMHO), from page 11 to 20:

DESOLATOR
DOOMSKULLE
DRACO
DYNATRON MISSION
EQUINOX
ESKIMO EDDIE
FANTASTIC VOYAGE
FAT WORM BLOWS A SPARKY
THE FIFTH QUADRANT
THE FINAL MATRIX
FIRESTORM
FROST BYTE
GIANT'S REVENGE
GO TO HELL
GYROSCOPE
GYROSCOPE II
H.E.R.O.
HIVE
HOCUS FOCUS
JASON'S GEM
JOCK AND THE TIME RINGS
KLIMAX
KYD CADET
KYD CADET II
KYD CADET 3
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by R-Tape »

This is terrifying!

Cheers Juan, keep going. I agree with ones I know so far.
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by Juan F. Ramirez »

Pages 21 to 30:

LABYRINTHION
THE LIFE OF HARRY
MAG THE MAGICIAN
MAGIC CARPET
THE MAGIC ROUNDABOUT
MAGNETRON
MANSION
LA MANSION
MARINE
MARITRINI, FREELANCE MONSTER SLAYER
MARITRINI, FREELANCE MONSTER SLAYER EN: LAS INCREIBLES VICISITUDES...
MARTIANOIDS
MERMAID MADNESS
METABOLIS
METAPLEX
MICRO MOUSE
MIN CIAM PAI
MISSION OMEGA
MOLECULE MAN
N.O.M.A.D.
NANAKO DESCENDS TO HELL
NINJA COMMANDO
NONTERRAQUEOUS
OGNOM
ON THE RUN
ONE MAN & HIS DROID
ONE MAN & HIS DROID II
OROSET
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Re: The "Maze" genre

Post by hikoki »

Maritrini is a sort of Gauntlet. That's why the game was catalogued in the same way?

Many games have some Action element, that's why games with some interesting maze concept may be more visible if left as Maze. At least if you don't plan to assign several genres per game, you should consider which genre prevails or even which is the most original genre in a particular game.
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