Spectrum Computing

Moved to new topic from general Next discussion by PJ.

Apologies if this idea has been floated before folks, just for a bit of fun I wondered:-

if you could see a Next specific version of any game, with all the relevant bells and whistles, whether this be a re-make or potentially
a sequel, what game would you

a) want to see most on the Next? (ideally as an official version, so either written by the original author(s) or at least having
their blessing/permission for others to write)

b) you would be prepared to crowdfund such a game.

So, if you loved the Fairlight games for example, how about an official Fairlight III using the Next's abilities, if not
written by Bo Jangeborg himself then at least with his permission to do so?

I realise that getting an original author to write a new version of an old game is unlikely, it is just an option, and remember
that, although this is fantasy largely, if say enough money was raised, they might be interested in doing it, or at least giving
permission for a fee whilst allowing others to write it.

Please don't take it too seriously, this is more for fun than being serious. Please do feel free to explain why you chose the game
you have and what your desires and expectations of a new version using the Next would be, for instance, being able to save a game to the
sd card would seem a standard expectation, no matter what kind of game it is, or a new version of Sabre Wulf with 1024 screens

NB Apologies if this should be elsewhere or a new thread in its own right please say so.

About Fairlight - if I remember right, Bo does not have rights to series, besides he is author of the first part.

And I like Saboteur parts (including new extended one) to be ported on the Next.
The only thing I dislike - mixing old graphics with rendered objects that was done by Townsend recently.

Bruce Lee from Sega Master System
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnfZRMUxms4

Bedazzle wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:16 am And I like Saboteur parts (including new extended one) to be ported on the Next.
The only thing I dislike - mixing old graphics with rendered objects that was done by Townsend recently.

'next' is unnecessary, I'd want that on an actual Spectrum, first and foremost The graphics in the main game seem intentionally made with Spectrum limitations in mind inc.color clash, and that type of scrolling and FPS are also reasonable, so there should be no problems in that department. -Actually, I thought this was their plan, but nothing surfaced so far (?)

the scrolling in that video is awful. oh, my poor old eyes! please, if somebody will do it, make it flip-screen!

Saboteur 3? Phew. So whatever happened to that project?
Scrolling isn't great, but something I could live with.

That Bruce Lee on SMS is perhaps technically superior, but does not have the character of the original. Sometimes less is more.

Nienn Heskil wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:30 am 'next' is unnecessary, I'd want that on an actual Spectrum, first and foremost The graphics in the main game seem intentionally made with Spectrum limitations in mind inc.color clash, and that type of scrolling and FPS are also reasonable, so there should be no problems in that department. -Actually, I thought this was their plan, but nothing surfaced so far (?)

I think a next version would benefit from adding some colour and increasing the frame rate for smoother animations. The next can hardware scroll the ula screen so perhaps the increased frame rate for the smoother animations could also smooth out the ula scrolling without colour clash in the backgrounds.

A little colour can make a game more playable especially when the monochrome causes sprites to blend in with busy backgrounds. It looks like the Saboteur remake suffers from that somewhat.

Anyway as this is a PC game those decisions (chunky scroll, low frame rate) were deliberate.

An example of a touch of colour added to an otherwise identical game:

128K
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOf6WQBJarM

ZX Next
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68KLaj8qjps

I think I'd like The Sentinel on the Next.

I have to admit that I haven't delved into the technical capabilities of the Next yet, although I do own one.

This is rather controversial, but I'm rather disappointed. The games that I've seen don't look like Spectrum games. They have more of an Amiga or Atari ST look to my eyes.

I suppose I was expecting Next games to look like Spectrum games, but without the colour clash. The Powerblade example above seems to be the only example I've seen to-date which appears to be achieving this.

It's on my to-do list to read through the relevant sections of the manual over the next few weeks so I gain a better understanding.

PeterJ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:26 am This is rather controversial, but I'm rather disappointed. The games that I've seen don't look like Spectrum games. They have more of an Amiga or Atari ST look to my eyes.

exactly my feelings about Next games too. Next hardware specs are amazing, but i simply don't feel that it is a Spectrum anymore. of course, it is possible to ignore all advanced video features (or use them very sparingly), but then, what is the reason to have them?

don't get me wrong, please: i'm not saying that Next is a bad machine. it's just about personal feelings.

ketmar wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:30 am

PeterJ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:26 am This is rather controversial, but I'm rather disappointed. The games that I've seen don't look like Spectrum games. They have more of an Amiga or Atari ST look to my eyes.

exactly my feelings about Next games too. Next hardware specs are amazing, but i simply don't feel that it is a Spectrum anymore. of course, it is possible to ignore all advanced video features (or use them very sparingly), but then, what is the reason to have them?

don't get me wrong, please: i'm not saying that Next is a bad machine. it's just about personal feelings.

Exactly.
That's why, for me the recoloring method in @Lethargeek's ZX-Ulax emulator is the best solution, even better than the one from EmuZWin emulator.
We still have the original Spectrum games that fully retain their charm, only what was not good enough has been improved in a very good discreet way.

To be fair, I think they had a decent concept at the beginning, some moderate enhancements over the basic abilities of the Spectrum could've still maintained a suspense of disbelief. And, who knows, perhaps they could've had normal and sane people, too, play the 'pretense game' w/o too much cringe and/or reality check distractions. But then of course they had to increasingly start 'overflowing the banks', with all sorts of unrealistic and unnecessary bs, and just overall catering to fb randoms that clearly have, at best, only seen a Spectrum in a picture book before. I think I lost it somewhere around the point they added a special instruction for shifting A 4 times to the left.

Thank you [mention]ketmar[/mention] and [mention]Pegaz[/mention],

I have been thinking of posting this for months (ever since I started collating the Next screens for ZXDB), but was worried I would be the only one with this opinion!

The Next is a magnificent machine, and I'm excited to own one. Software development for it is still in its infancy, so hopefully things will develop over time.

Join meeee! It’s its palette that gives the Spectrum it’s identity. Personally, there’s only been a couple of games that have worked using the extended palette. The rest, not so much.

It’s always been my intention to only use the ZX Spectrum palette but without the attribute clash on the Next. When Melkhior’s Mansion first started, before any graphics were ever done, I had to convince how good the game could look as if we only used the Speccy colour palette. It wasn’t new by any means but it does stand out from the crowd. There are many other reasons why I won’t use the extended palette (though never say never!). Anyway, once Melkhior’s Mansion is done and we’ve had a break, we’ve got other plans for future games only using the palette from the Speccy.

Wow [mention]redballoon[/mention],

Just looked at this, and it looks amazing!

https://retroeric.itch.io/melkhiors-mansion

It’s always been my intention to only use the ZX Spectrum palette but without the attribute clash on the Next.

Thank you.

Nienn Heskil wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:52 am But then of course they had to increasingly start 'overflowing the banks', with all sorts of unrealistic and unnecessary bs, and just overall catering to fb randoms that clearly have, at best, only seen a Spectrum in a picture book before.

I get the sentiment about the "Spectrum look" even though I don't agree with it. For me, the machine is Spectrum Next and I find it natural that some devs want to utilize its capabilities to the max, using whatever styles they prefer. And if others want to stick close to the original ZX style, it's totally fine too. But sure, we can all state our opinions, likes & dislikes.

But it totally stops bein reasonable when peopel start to rant about the Next design and "fb casuals". This is some elitist BS, like only we, the 1337 Sinclair gatekeepers know what the true and refined Speccy flavour is and how dare they intrude on that sacred ground. Yuck, please.

akeley wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:25 pm But it totally stops bein reasonable when peopel start to rant about the Next design and "fb casuals". This is some elitist BS, like only we, the 1337 Sinclair gatekeepers know what the true and refined Speccy flavour is and how dare they intrude on that sacred ground. Yuck, please.

I agree 100%

akeley wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:25 pm

Nienn Heskil wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:52 am But then of course they had to increasingly start 'overflowing the banks', with all sorts of unrealistic and unnecessary bs, and just overall catering to fb randoms that clearly have, at best, only seen a Spectrum in a picture book before.

I get the sentiment about the "Spectrum look" even though I don't agree with it. For me, the machine is Spectrum Next and I find it natural that some devs want to utilize its capabilities to the max, using whatever styles they prefer. And if others want to stick close to the original ZX style, it's totally fine too. But sure, we can all state our opinions, likes & dislikes.

But it totally stops bein reasonable when peopel start to rant about the Next design and "fb casuals". This is some elitist BS, like only we, the 1337 Sinclair gatekeepers know what the true and refined Speccy flavour is and how dare they intrude on that sacred ground. Yuck, please.

Was a bit tempted to quote 'The Final Circle of Paradise' by the Strugatsky's, i.e. 'how clever you are, fool! and everything is for you on a silver plate' etc etc but couldn't find an English translation qq

Anyway, if you're going as far as to drum up a pretense of designing some sort of semi-official (tm) successor to the Spectrum, the reasonable thing to do is listen to the people that actually understand a thing or two about it (because, as painful it is to admit in an age of idiots, they do exist ), first and foremost. And maybe less to the kind of folks that requests wasting an unused Z80 opcode just to have an instruction to rotate A 4 times.

I realize braindead fanboys aren't exactly conversation material, but this is simply not the context where you get to use the word 'elitism' or similar, not even close.

Nienn Heskil wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:32 pm this is simply not the context where you get to use the word 'elitism' or similar, not even close.

this is exactly it. either you're creating the machine for the masses, or for a small "elite circle". and in the second case, be prepared to not reach even the lowest funding goal, because "elite circle people" will always find something wrong with the project, and will reject it.

wasting physical layout room for useless opcodes is a slightly different deal, tho. but Next devs already admitted their fault there. yet alas, that ship was sailed.

ketmar wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:52 pm

Nienn Heskil wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:32 pm this is simply not the context where you get to use the word 'elitism' or similar, not even close.

this is exactly it. either you're creating the machine for the masses

That machine already exists, and it's called 'PC'.

(Doesn't have to be an 'either or' sorta thing... either. )

I'm more familiar with the Amiga forums and it's the same thing there. "How dare you enjoy this thing that I don't want you to enjoy!"

I have a Spectrum Next; I waited a long time for it and I'm glad I did. It looks and feels like a Spectrum and I'm having a lot of fun with it. Quite frankly, I don't give a monkey's what anyone else thinks. Why should I?

clebin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:40 pm Quite frankly, I don't give a monkey's what anyone else thinks. Why should I?

That is the right approach. If it works for you, then that's excellent.

ketmar wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:30 am

PeterJ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:26 am This is rather controversial, but I'm rather disappointed. The games that I've seen don't look like Spectrum games. They have more of an Amiga or Atari ST look to my eyes.

exactly my feelings about Next games too. Next hardware specs are amazing, but i simply don't feel that it is a Spectrum anymore. of course, it is possible to ignore all advanced video features (or use them very sparingly), but then, what is the reason to have them?

don't get me wrong, please: i'm not saying that Next is a bad machine. it's just about personal feelings.

This is what games look like when you eliminate the colour clash. That is the quintessential difference between the 16-bit era and the 8-bit era.

It is up to the programmer to take it in the direction he wants to, whether that be retaining a spectrum "look" (which is very hard to define) or not. As we're still very early in the Next's software cycle, people are still finding their art style and learning the machine. There are many examples of retro looking games in the pc independent arena that remind me strongly of a spectrum look and would be doable on a spectrum next. These also take advantage of no colour clash, increased palettes, and so on but only pay lip service to 8-bit constraints. I'd personally like to see more of that. Another avenue is taking inspiration from or even updating existing spectrum games. Taking something like Flying Shark, eg, where the identical code could be run but instead of software scrolling the ula background, it is hardware scrolled. This is subtly different as then there is no colour clash in background elements during a scroll and you can add more colour there without consequences. Then replace the sw sprites with hw ones and you end up with a game that looks and plays better (you can see your bullets and enemies!) despite being near identical.

But I wouldn't want to artificially constrain any programmer. Let them find their own art style and what they think looks good. You're going to get all sorts because the platform has attracted programmers from the spectrum, the c64, the amstrad, the st, the amiga.

It's already been mentioned but Melkior's Mansion is an example of a retro-inspired pc game that only pays homage to 8-bit constraints. Certainly a spectrum look and doable on the Next:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXnx53ASAjo&t=240s

I'm not sure if Super Crate Box would be 8-bit or 16-bit inspired but it still looks Spectrum-ish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GuDKtpio70

It is all in the hands of the programmer where he wants to go. The hardware just opens up different directions.

oh, i'm not saying thant Next is bad. just not my cup of tea. i actually love attribute clash, this is a huge part of "Speccy feel" for me. ;-) also, for me it is not interesting to program with hardware scrolling and sprites (even 128K with two screens is boring). this is prolly due to the fact that i don't have nostalgia about 8-bit games per se, only about 8-bit programming, and on a very limited platform w/o HW "accelerators" of any kind.