I guess these would count:Einar Saukas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:46 pmI will create a new tag in ZXDB to group these games!
Any others?
Rogue (a different one)
Vradark's Sphere
I guess these would count:Einar Saukas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:46 pmI will create a new tag in ZXDB to group these games!
Any others?
I'd class that as a 'dungeon crawler'. First person view, moving around a map laid out as a grid.Juan F. Ramirez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:24 am I'm not a fan of these kind of games either, but Dragonsbane by Quicksilva might count?
There's a big (mostly bitter) debate going on about what actualy classifies as a roguelike. The "purist" section argues that a real RL has to be turn-based, grid-based and has few other lesser intrinsics. To me the most important thing which defines this genre is interplay between permadeath and random generation. So if Dragonsbane has these qualities then I'd say it's a roguelike.Morkin wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:26 amI'd class that as a 'dungeon crawler'. First person view, moving around a map laid out as a grid.Juan F. Ramirez wrote: ↑Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:24 am I'm not a fan of these kind of games either, but Dragonsbane by Quicksilva might count?
Funny thing is, this description, also by proxy, actually applies to most of the "normal" games, and not roguelikes. Grind and leveling play very minor role in really good RLs. What really counts is ability to think ahead and adapt to random, emergent situations.
Done:
One of the best and very underrated ZX Spectrum games. The only caveat is the map generation takes some time -no surprise here- but the game itself was very addictive back in the day
Fair enough, if those are the aspects that defines a rogue-like then I guess games like MoM and Out of the Shadows (fixed map I think) aren't really rogue-likes.
[mention]Morkin[/mention] I know you are a true fan (like me) from this comment.Morkin wrote: ↑Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:28 pm
Interestingly, compared to many of the earlier Rogue-likes - written on machines with lots more memory than our ZX - the Speccy attempts seem to have larger and more detailed graphics/sprites (e.g. 16x16 pixel). Personally, if I were attempting to write one (which I won't!) I'd be putting as many spare bytes towards getting as much variety of item types, monsters, combat etc. I'd be perfectly happy with 8x8 pixel UDG-style characters and character movement.
IMHO it is kind of proto RL. Question is if there is enough RL elements to distinguish Maziacs as RL. It is always hard to find clear line.
This is another good point. Same issue with end of level bosses in so called rouge likes. They player needs to be able to select their own risk level. So they must never be forced in to some kind of end point. As you say, the player should be able to make their own preparations and decide when they are ready to 'go for it'catmeows wrote: ↑Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:48 am Well, I used to play Pixel Dungeon. It is far from complex RL like Nethack oř Umoria but it still fits in genre.
One concept I'm not sure is food. It is used to stop player grinding on easy levels. Fact is, in some runs, you already know that you are dead simply because you did not get suitable weapon and armor in early levels and you take too much damage. You can mitigate increased damage by potions but that Is just prolongating unevitable agony. I prefer when player is killed by own mistake than by statistic.
...I think it's probably a difficult (read: impossible!) task to get definitive agreement on what 'Roguelike' means, but this is quite an important element for me.