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Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:58 pm
by Ast A. Moore
R-Tape wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:19 pm Keys:

OP = Left/Right
Z = Jump
Space = Switch brother
Looks cute, but without redefinable controls—particularly with these defaults—I’m not even going to try it. ;)

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:26 pm
by Ralf
The sample level is hard but possible.

Completed it after about 30th attempt ;)

Definitely it would be not a good idea to have 3 lives in this game :D

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:37 pm
by hikoki
Good stuff. A platformer which requires brain and action.
Easy once you get used to controls. I would suggest OPNM (QWNM for lefties I guess) instead.
What about a type of baddies who speed up their march when they see you? another one who chases you down all the time so that you can play with doors to close him?

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:16 am
by hikoki
Also, if I'm carrying the other guy, I expect to be able to carry him left and right as I go.
IMHO this would spoil the game! to me the fun in this demo is leaving a bro "abandoned" while you move the other one. Having to switch betwen both makes you think and plan your moves! This would be spoiled if one could always carry each other. Also it's fun that you have to think how to move the bros as platforms, this would be spoiled as well.
Perhaps allow carrying each other Temporarily when getting powerups, leave jetpac power-ups so that one bro can fly on top of the other, bicycle power-ups, etc.. each bro having different abilities would add more brain+action possibilities and replayability.. leave power-ups and let the player think the best way.sometimes would require more brain than action or both depending on how power-uls are placed.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:49 am
by R-Tape
MatGubbins wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:57 pm Yup, doors crush the nasties, or at least trap them for a few seconds until they struggle free.
I don't know if I cheated by jumping on top of the other player and leaping through the red platform and then leaping up the platforms - I see that once the level has been completed it is possible to do a double high leap from the head of the other player by swapping at the highest point, tricky but doable.
I wouldn't call that cheating, in other levels I made the red bricks double thick to stop it where it would spoil the puzzle.

Well spotted on the double double height leap. I wondered if it should have been included as part of the gameplay but decide it was too tricky for many to master. So as of now being able to jump off your brother's head midway through his leap is a curio.

Image

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:50 am
by R-Tape
Ralf wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:26 pm The sample level is hard but possible.

Completed it after about 30th attempt ;)

Definitely it would be not a good idea to have 3 lives in this game :D
Infy lives I think! I like the idea of logging number of attempts instead.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:55 am
by R-Tape
hikoki wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:37 pm Good stuff. A platformer which requires brain and action.
Easy once you get used to controls. I would suggest OPNM (QWNM for lefties I guess) instead.
What about a type of baddies who speed up their march when they see you? another one who chases you down all the time so that you can play with doors to close him?
Thanks. These are good ideas, the trouble is that AGD is full - I'm already hacking it to get more features. I'm trying to decide whether to call my work in AGD the sandbox stage and now move on and code it myself.

There is a lot more I want to add here, and each addition really opens up the level design possibilities.

It seems the obvious choice but the risk is that I won't finish it...

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:00 am
by R-Tape
hikoki wrote: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:16 am
Also, if I'm carrying the other guy, I expect to be able to carry him left and right as I go.
IMHO this would spoil the game! to me the fun in this demo is leaving a bro "abandoned" while you move the other one. Having to switch betwen both makes you think and plan your moves! This would be spoiled if one could always carry each other. Also it's fun that you have to think how to move the bros as platforms, this would be spoiled as well.
Perhaps allow carrying each other Temporarily when getting powerups, leave jetpac power-ups so that one bro can fly on top of the other, bicycle power-ups, etc.. each bro having different abilities would add more brain+action possibilities and replayability.. leave power-ups and let the player think the best way.sometimes would require more brain than action or both depending on how power-uls are placed.
I've thought about this some more and I think being able to carry your brother while your own movements are unhindered would spoil it. One possibility is that you can only do the vertical jump when coupled, so traversing platforms would not be possible, and make walking treacle slow.

I'm not sure about different abilities, I considered it originally and it's also been said to me privately. I definitely see why it's a good idea, but it means leaning further towards puzzle than I originally intended. I'm not ruling it out though. If I'm not careful I could end up remaking Multidude.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:11 am
by R-Tape
A few people here and privately mentioned dropping the switching in favour of simultaneous movement, basically a two player game for one (?) I'm struggling with this idea and still think it's missing the point, the whole premise is concentrating on one brother but keeping the other in mind. I suppose the same goes for simultaneous control to a lesser extent.

I'm not even sure I like the idea, are there other games (any platform) that do this?

And the people that have made the suggestion are all very sensible people IMO, so perhaps it's me that's missing the point!

The more I think about this the more I want to do on it, I'm not sure this will be finished in a couple of weeks.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:13 am
by hikoki
More puzzle than thoughful jumps? well all depends on abilities, enemies behaviour and level design..also power-ups could last few seconds to prevent gameplay from becoming too puzzle-like.

Slow walking would make the game more of a puzzle?

Double jumping is interesting. You may want to get it more automatic when bros are stacked. I dunno..by holding down jump key and perform double-jump when releasing?

About lack of memory, have you thought of using Alan Turvey's AGDX ? You may want to look at his youtube channel and AGD Facebook group where the latest version can be downloaded.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:50 am
by R-Tape
hikoki wrote: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:13 am Slow walking would make the game more of a puzzle?
I meant slow only when your brother is standing on your head. Just a possibility, I may not include carrying your brother horizontally at all.
About lack of memory, have you thought of using Alan Turvey's AGDX ? You may want to look at his youtube channel and AGD Facebook group where the latest version can be downloaded.
Never heard of it until now thanks, looks like it's password only Facebook though. If I'm to redo things I should probably move to doing it myself in assembly.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:59 pm
by hikoki
Early AGDx plus demos here : https://highriser.itch.io
though the latest version is on Facebook. I think this version 3 is the latest one : https://www.dropbox.com/s/9yb7qhoukbt3gns/Agd_x3.rar
He's showing features from version 4 though I think it's not released yet.
You can import your game into AGDX : https://youtu.be/TKt6r7QZrso
and it's supposed to allow for more space apart from accepting other .bin goodies which are shared on dropbox by AlanT on his video descriptions. In general everything is explained on his videos: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCzWzj4BD ... bjg/videos
One video which seems useful to save lots of memory is about how to import preshifted sprites after makig the game.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:45 pm
by Joefish
I only suggested simultaneous control because you seemed to prefer a lot of tight action type problems. It's not as easy as you might expect to control two characters, but it'd be fun to play the game again as a 2-player co-op.
If this level was a little more generous in its 'safe spaces' then I wouldn't have mentioned it!

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:38 pm
by Kweepa
R-Tape wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:19 pm What about the Italian "Fratello Fagioli"? It's alliterative, but is possibly too long so is not catchy.
It would be I Fratelli Fagioli (the o is singular, the i is plural). I think it sounds good... but I'm no expert.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:40 am
by hikoki
More suggestions: crumbling platforms (o even better dissappearing as soon as used), one bro can shoot, one bro can move platforms, one bro can create platforms from nowhere on every step, the abandoned bro gets shielded, one bro can move only horizontaly whilst the other vertically, one can only jump whilst the other one can only run

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:11 am
by hikoki
I have not found games like this demo but I recalled one flash game for which a tablet version was made recently, Heart Star. The player switchs between alternate worlds. It's a puzzle game but one could think of freezing time on the abandoned world including the enemies that lived in there.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:27 am
by RMartins
I also think the double jumping is a nice feature, that could be used in some puzzles, but not too many times.

Regarding one guy carrying the other, seems fine, and what the user expects in terms of physics.

You also have to take care of collision, of the standing brother (the one on top), while moving, so that it doesn't go through walls or platforms.

However, I would make it almost impossible to keep your brother on top after a jump in movement, to avoid strategies of always carrying your brother around, hence defeating the game purpose.
A simple way to probably do it, is to change the "slide" speed of the one on top, after it stops touching the one below. which is the same to say that the one on bottom could speed up when not having the brother on top.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:52 am
by Alessandro
R-Tape wrote: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:11 am A few people here and privately mentioned dropping the switching in favour of simultaneous movement, basically a two player game for one (?) I'm struggling with this idea and still think it's missing the point, the whole premise is concentrating on one brother but keeping the other in mind. I suppose the same goes for simultaneous control to a lesser extent.

I'm not even sure I like the idea, are there other games (any platform) that do this?
The Coincidentia Oppositorum screen in Lost In My Spectrum :lol: Once you understand that you have to move the right Alessandro first, then the left one, it becomes pretty straightforward.

Another solution could be like in the fifth stage of Cousin Horace, with reversed movement for each of the two characters - i.e., when you press the "right" key, one moves to the right, the other to the left.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:20 am
by hikoki
RMartins wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:27 am Regarding one guy carrying the other, seems fine, and what the user expects in terms of physics.
Have you tried to carry a 200 pounds asleeep guy on your head?

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:27 am
by R-Tape
hikoki wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:40 am More suggestions: crumbling platforms (o even better dissappearing as soon as used), one bro can shoot, one bro can move platforms, one bro can create platforms from nowhere on every step, the abandoned bro gets shielded, one bro can move only horizontaly whilst the other vertically, one can only jump whilst the other one can only run
Definitely crumbling platforms, thanks to your tip on AGDX I've managed to hack that in using the extra block types. Though I may still move away from AGD.

I really like the ideas about the brothers having different properties. Basically I want to make two different games here, one more puzzle and one more action.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:34 am
by R-Tape
RMartins wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:27 am I also think the double jumping is a nice feature, that could be used in some puzzles, but not too many times.
In later levels perhaps, the player will become very familiar with the switch mechanism by this time.
You also have to take care of collision, of the standing brother (the one on top), while moving, so that it doesn't go through walls or platforms.
If I stick with AGD this will be accomplished using double thickness blocks, it's imperfect as the brother jumps through one layer but cannot penetrate.

RE - carrying brother, still not convinced.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:36 am
by R-Tape
hikoki wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:20 am Have you tried to carry a 200 pounds asleeep guy on your head?
I could carry a bean on my head, but could another bean?

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:02 pm
by hikoki
R-Tape wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:36 am
hikoki wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:20 am Have you tried to carry a 200 pounds asleeep guy on your head?
I could carry a bean on my head, but could another bean?
I thought they were beaners in which case they'd need to have spinacha pills or something, though it's up to you to give them ant-like strength.

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:36 pm
by hikoki
Joefish wrote: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:45 pm I only suggested simultaneous control because you seemed to prefer a lot of tight action type problems. It's not as easy as you might expect to control two characters, but it'd be fun to play the game again as a 2-player co-op.
If this level was a little more generous in its 'safe spaces' then I wouldn't have mentioned it!
About having more "safe spaces", it could be funny that such resting places were highlighted in yellow and that were collapsed after using any one of them :)

Re: Bean Brothers - playtesting and name help wanted

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:37 am
by hikoki
I have to resort to a kitchen timer when two little boys start fighting to play a game :)
A two player mode could be just allowing different keys for evey player and placing a countdown timer to perform the switch. The automatic switch would force the players to discuss every move lol