Open Questions/Potential Projects

The place for codemasters or beginners to talk about programming any language for the Spectrum.
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Nomad
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Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by Nomad »

So I was curious if such a thing exists.

Most machines have a number of technical challenges that are considered to be theoretically possible but as yet unimplemented on the system. It could also be done with preservation goals.

Kind of like the Clay Math Institute has done with Maths problems.

http://www.claymath.org/millennium-problems

It could create a focus for future research/projects. Of course not suggesting a substantial cash prize but perhaps a mars bar, 20p and a printable certificate :lol:
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Einar Saukas
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by Einar Saukas »

Here's my list of technical challenges I wrote for myself years ago:

* Generic compact proportional width font library (FZX)
* Generic compact icons library (IZX)
* Generic compact mouse cursor library (CZX)
* Generic compact redefinable keyboard library (DEFKEY)
* Generic compact joystick library (JOY)
* Generic compact data compression library (ZX7/RCS)
* Generic compact A.I. engine (BRAINIAC)
* Generic compact maze solver library (PATHFINDER)
* Generic compact maze generator library (DAEDALUS)
* Generic compact multicolor graphics engine (BIFROST/NIRVANA)
* Generic compact multicolor scrolling engine (?)
* Generic compact border graphics engine (ROTATRIX)
* Generic compact isometric 3D engine (?)
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Einar Saukas
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by Einar Saukas »

I forgot one:

* Generic compact multiple lines input library (SUPER INPUT)
Nomad
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by Nomad »

That is really quite a list! How close are you to finishing the general AI library?
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Einar Saukas
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by Einar Saukas »

Nomad wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:03 pm That is really quite a list! How close are you to finishing the general AI library?
The AI is already implemented. BRAINIAC is one of the files in COMPLICA DX source code. Try playing yourself against the computer, in later levels it's quite a strong adversary.

Now I just need to remove COMPLICA specific board rules, replacing them with a generic interface so programmers can implement later their own game rules. And provide a proper documentation explaining how to use it.

The only reason I didn't do it yet, is that nobody seems to care about board games nowadays. But if someone is interested in using BRAINIAC, let me know and I will give this task a higher priority.
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by Ralf »

Einar what do you mean by AI in context of your library?

AI in games is a broad subject. It may be about pathfinding, it may be about controlling some bots in shooting games, it may be fighting patterns in beatemup games and so on.

I would guess that you made some generic minimax alghoritm for strategy turn based board games. Am I true?
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Einar Saukas
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by Einar Saukas »

Ralf wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:42 pmEinar what do you mean by AI in context of your library?

AI in games is a broad subject. It may be about pathfinding, it may be about controlling some bots in shooting games, it may be fighting patterns in beatemup games and so on.
Sure, but it wouldn't be feasible to solve these problems using real AI within the limitations of a ZX-Spectrum.

In particular, the practical solution for pathfinding is PATHFINDER. It can solve mazes in real-time games, but that's not really AI.

Ralf wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:42 pmI would guess that you made some generic minimax alghoritm
Correct. Technically it's an optimized recursive Minimax strategy with alpha-beta pruning, using heuristic evaluation and arbitrary recursion depth. In practice, it means running Minimax much faster than usual. :)

Ralf wrote: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:42 pmfor strategy turn based board games.
Actually it can simulate computer AI for any kind of turn based game. Besides board games, it also works for turn-based RPG battles, strategy and war games, certain card games, etc.

Turn based games are really the only option for real AI in a ZX-Spectrum.
Nomad
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by Nomad »

I was curious about the lack of intrest in boardgames, because it seems like an obvious first or second project. It can also be done with basic with few drawbacks. Why so few games got made back in the day is also a bit of a mystery. I apreciate that you got the copywrite on modern titles but there are hundreds/thousands of board games/paper games that are public domain.

Modern day, I guess its because you have the platform game designers making it so much easier for new people to create platformers, it kind of takes out that whole area of development.

I like boardgames because they can be as complicated as you want to make them. In the simple case just have no AI, there is the choice of complicated graphics, animations, sounds, save states, stats. :lol:

Will have to check but it seems like card games were more popular than board games.
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by AndyC »

I think it's more because board games on computers tend to feel redundant. The computer brings little to the experience and makes for a colder environment than the tactile sensation of a physical board which friends gather around. Modern networking helps to some extent by allowing play amongst people across the globe, but again doesn't really replicate the social experience of playing amongst friends.
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by Ralf »

I don't know if it is worldwide but where I live it seems to be some renewed interest in classic paper board games.

There is a lot of this stuff in shops with any possible theme. You want a board game based on your favourite film or book - you have it. You want to be a medieval king, gangster in prohibiton time or space pilot - you have it. And I actually know some young people who play it.

The most fun about it comes from social aspect, I guess. you meet with friends, laugh, talk about a lot of other stuff while playing. You could do the same things on computer screen, switching chair at the desk as you make your move but moving real plastic figures on real board seems somehow better.

Things get worse when you are in 40s. Meeting with your friends often becomes mission impossible :( and here computers may be indeed useful.
Nomad
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by Nomad »

That was the thing - the last time my friends had time to play games as a group was when we were in our early 20s after that most had family or jobs so we couldn't get togeather for hours at a time.

I can remember spending days playing campaign for north Africa when I was in college :lol: No chance that is ever happening again.

In my mid 30s its now essentially impossible to find friends that all have the same time off at the same time, and want to play a board game. :lol:

It's something I never really thought about as a teen & in college we just assumed we would always have time for network gaming and board games :lol:

I get what you guys are saying about the social aspect - its always funny watching a friend get screwed over and rage quit a game. Much more than a stranger and its something about all being together in the same space.

I guess with the computer at least you can have some way to play a similar game. Better some experience than no experience I guess. :lol:
AndyC
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by AndyC »

Yeah. It's certainly true that as we've all got a shade older, we just have less time for this kind of thing and that makes a computer version a more compelling prospect than it was back in the day.
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djnzx48
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by djnzx48 »

This isn't a major challenge or anything, but I think it'd be interesting to see a game with stereo sound effects on the Spectrum. Getting the AY chip to output in stereo is a common mod, but it's only really utilised for music. So how about playing sound effects simultaneously across the left and right channels to get stereo sound? Imagine something like 3D Deathchase, 3D Monster Maze, Elite, or Starion where you could hear where the enemies were coming from. If you were careful with the timing you could even get a basic form of HRTF by playing the sound on the nearer channel slightly earlier.

There might be problems since there are many different stereo setups so there'd need to be some kind of calibration, and with some setups you can't get sounds panned 100% left or right. I still think it would be possible though.
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by Wall_Axe »

was the minmax algorithm used for chess game AI on the spectrum?
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djnzx48
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Re: Open Questions/Potential Projects

Post by djnzx48 »

Interestingly, I just came across this paper which indicates that the AY-3-8910 chip was being used for scientific research, and that two-channel sound experiments were conducted using it.
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