ZX Recoloring project

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hikoki
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ZX Recoloring project

Post by hikoki » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:50 am

Hi. I've found this site called ZX recoloring project http://web-ext.u-aizu.ac.jp/~mozgovoy/z ... about.html
They state it's an easier way than the tool provided by Emuzwin to recolour games with 256 colours (spec256 format)
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Ralf
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Re: ZX Recoloring project

Post by Ralf » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:44 pm

I've heard about it. It's an old, probably abandoned project. You may actually see ©2009 on the website ;)

As I know, it has never gained enough momentum, people have never started doing recoloured games with it. So you can't
really tell if it's good or not.

I tried once doing a coloured version of some game in EmuZWin and may tell you that the devil is in the detail. You do a lot of
work, everything works nicely and suddenly you hit some more complicated game behaviour and the colouring engine goes crazy.

Draw some invisible graphics with black on black attribute? No way, they'll get perfectly visible when you apply colour to them.
Use different colour versions of the same sprite? No way, they'll all look the same after you recolour them. And so on... So you end with
almost good result having a few nasty glitches.
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hikoki
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Re: ZX Recoloring project

Post by hikoki » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:03 pm

I see the author didn't get much enthusiam on WoS forums. He provided a modified emulator, an editor and a modified game to demonstrate his technology. I find interesting to apply new technologies upon the original games. Things like Obo's tools,VR, AR, sprites recolouring, filters, netplay.. who knows if the Raspberry Pi on the Next will be able to support such things.

EDIT

The author may be contacted at http://web-ext.u-aizu.ac.jp/~mozgovoy/h ... en/zx.html
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Ralf
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Re: ZX Recoloring project

Post by Ralf » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:09 pm

I see the author didn't get much enthusiam on WoS forums
I found the thread too:
https://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/ ... n-games/p2

Damn, it's already over ten years and I would say it was a moment ago. I hate getting old ;)

Some people were really bitter pricks there, getting into this "emulation of nonexistant machine" thing.
I tried to ask some practical question but in the end, I could seem to be negative as well.
A bit shame.
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zxbruno
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Re: ZX Recoloring project

Post by zxbruno » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:15 pm

I'm sorry for the slightly off-topic comment...

Several people left the WOS forums years ago because of those who were harsh, cold, and aggressive in their way of communicating. The irony is that most of those forum members are also gone.

I'm one of the few who believes most misunderstandings online are due to language barriers. The Portuguese, for example, can sound quite harsh even when they're not upset. I only learned this, and changed, after moving out of Portugal back in 1995. Some people know enough English to communicate, but have no idea (or don't care) about etiquette.

One "bad" visitor who decides to spend some time participating in a forum, is enough to get people to start saying things like "this forum is not what it used to be".
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hikoki
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Re: ZX Recoloring project

Post by hikoki » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:50 pm

Was this thread, right? https://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/ ... ent_353865
If this tool was really easy to use with immediate results, I think Spectrum users would have a lot of fun. Wouldn't you like to paint your favourite games? I remember that thread where people seemed to like painting images for the Hobbit 128K edition. Hey there is one idea for a compo here, though I haven't check out these recoloring tools to see if they are easy enough for everyone.
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4thRock
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Re: ZX Recoloring project

Post by 4thRock » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:32 pm

I experimented with Spec256 once and it works. But it's not user friendly.
For example, how to handle animation frames ? You need some way to preview your work.
The same for sprite parts the get reused, map tiles, etc, etc.

A better approach would be a tool that exported graphic data (from memory or tape...) into a PNG, allowing the user to reposition and clone elements.
Basically, it needs to be able to create a proper sprite sheet.
All editing is then done on whatever program the user prefers (Photoshop if needed :D ).

The tool would need to keep track of the original memory positions, so that you could reverse the process (import back your PNG with edited graphics).

I think that editing the original graphics is better and has more appeal.
There's precedent with Mr. Helli for example:
http://torinak.com/qaop#128#speed=1#l=h ... LI-MOD.tap
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AndyC
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Re: ZX Recoloring project

Post by AndyC » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:33 pm

The problem with all these recolouring projects is that they tend to oversell themselves. It's always pitched as something that is easy, requires no programming experience and that will produce great results. In reality it's almost always something that kind of works with some games, but glitches out in other cases. You often need to understand what the game is actually doing in order to avoid some of the quirks. And then there are times when it just flat out won't work with certain games.
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Bedazzle
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Re: ZX Recoloring project

Post by Bedazzle » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:29 am

Ralf wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:44 pm
and suddenly you hit some more complicated game behaviour and the colouring engine goes crazy.
Just to add some problem cases:

- on the fly mirrored/rotated sprites
- double buffer
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hikoki
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Re: ZX Recoloring project

Post by hikoki » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:47 am

The author seemed to lose motivation for lack of feedback. I'm sure he could try to patch every particular issue. I see Obo supports a number of different games. In this case, I guess patches could be generalised to many games using the same programming techniques. If you really want to experiment with your favourite games, I'd suggest to give it a go and tell the author the problems you come across.
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