Graph Paper

Share graphical tips, notes and queries related to our favourite screen layout and its editors.
User avatar
Rorthron
Dynamite Dan
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:35 pm

Re: Graph Paper

Post by Rorthron »

R-Tape wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:21 pm
Rorthron wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:04 pm :D

Done on paper, because I was too incompetent to do them in software!
I've never tried this way. Did you scan it in, resize and open in ZX-Paint to finish?
No. I built an Excel spreadsheet for the whole screen, manually input each pixel as a 1 or 0 and used formulae to convert these into a string of values for 0x4000 and beyond (I hope I got that right). I did something similar for the attributes.

I can't think why more people don't do it that way. :)
User avatar
1024MAK
Bugaboo
Posts: 3104
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:52 pm
Location: Sunny Somerset in the U.K. in Europe

Re: Graph Paper

Post by 1024MAK »

In the past when I have used graph paper to design UDG and graphics, at first I always manually calculated the decimal value to enter into the Spectrum. Soon after, I started to use a scientific calculator that has binary, hexadecimal and of course decimal modes. Much easier ;)
Now I have an iPad app. and computer based calculators that can convert binary to hexadecimal or decimal.

The trouble with using spreadsheets, is that not all formats/versions support the binary and hexadecimal operators/functions :(
My experience is from a few years ago, so maybe things have moved forward.

Mark
:!: Standby alert :!:
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb :dance
Looking forward to summer later in the year.
User avatar
RMartins
Manic Miner
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:26 pm

Re: Graph Paper

Post by RMartins »

This reminds me of a few graphics I found 4 months ago, with 30+ years, when I was doing games in Basic.
I have to scan those, one of these days.

They were all done in some "accountant" grid paper, my parent gave me from a firm that had been closed.
User avatar
PeterJ
Site Admin
Posts: 6854
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: Graph Paper

Post by PeterJ »

1024MAK wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:04 pm In the past when I have used graph paper to design UDG and graphics, at first I always manually calculated the decimal value to enter into the Spectrum. Soon after, I started to use a scientific calculator that has binary, hexadecimal and of course decimal modes. Much easier ;)
Now I have an iPad app. and computer based calculators that can convert binary to hexadecimal or decimal.

The trouble with using spreadsheets, is that not all formats/versions support the binary and hexadecimal operators/functions :(
My experience is from a few years ago, so maybe things have moved forward.

Mark
Google Sheets covers this very well now, and its the option I use when I'm not feeling retro!

HEX2DEC: Converts a signed hexadecimal number to decimal format.
HEX2BIN: Converts a signed hexadecimal number to signed binary format.
DEC2HEX: Converts a decimal number to signed hexadecimal format.
DEC2BIN: Converts a decimal number to signed binary format.
BIN2HEX: Converts a signed binary number to signed hexadecimal format.
BIN2DEC: Converts a signed binary number to decimal format.
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Graph Paper

Post by R-Tape »

RMartins wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:45 pm This reminds me of a few graphics I found 4 months ago, with 30+ years, when I was doing games in Basic.
I have to scan those, one of these days.

They were all done in some "accountant" grid paper, my parent gave me from a firm that had been closed.
Please do!
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Graph Paper

Post by R-Tape »

Rorthron wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:53 pm No. I built an Excel spreadsheet for the whole screen, manually input each pixel as a 1 or 0 and used formulae to convert these into a string of values for 0x4000 and beyond (I hope I got that right).
Oof!
Rorthron wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:53 pm I did something similar for the attributes.
I'm struggling to visualise this (I get the pixels), I'll have to try it. How on earth did you decide how to place the attributes? DId ZX-Paint not come into this somewhere?!
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Graph Paper

Post by R-Tape »

PeterJ wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:52 pm HEX2DEC: Converts a signed hexadecimal number to decimal format.
Despite numerous attempts at learning it by heart (crib sheets on the walls at work etc) I still need to rely on this one!
User avatar
Joefish
Rick Dangerous
Posts: 2041
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:26 am

Re: Graph Paper

Post by Joefish »

The sprites and font in Buzzsaw+ were designed as binary data statements in the PASMO listing!
User avatar
Rorthron
Dynamite Dan
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:35 pm

Re: Graph Paper

Post by Rorthron »

R-Tape wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:30 pm
Rorthron wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:53 pm I did something similar for the attributes.
I'm struggling to visualise this (I get the pixels), I'll have to try it. How on earth did you decide how to place the attributes? DId ZX-Paint not come into this somewhere?!
If my memory serves me well, I had a separate sheet with three drop-down menus per character: one for INK, one for PAPER and one for BRIGHT. Formulae converted the data into attribute values.

I tried ZX Paintbrush, but couldn't get the hang of it, so I decided to scale up my usual sprite design method to a full screen. It worked for me, but I'm probably a bit... unusual... in that regard.
User avatar
R-Tape
Site Admin
Posts: 6353
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Graph Paper

Post by R-Tape »

Joefish wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:32 am The sprites and font in Buzzsaw+ were designed as binary data statements in the PASMO listing!
It works! Though I assumed you used contemporary packages, I pictured you agonising over every pixel for months.
Rorthron wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:40 am If my memory serves me well, I had a separate sheet with three drop-down menus per character: one for INK, one for PAPER and one for BRIGHT. Formulae converted the data into attribute values.

I tried ZX Paintbrush, but couldn't get the hang of it, so I decided to scale up my usual sprite design method to a full screen. It worked for me, but I'm probably a bit... unusual... in that regard.
Yep :-p , as you say - it works.

We should do a SCREEN$ comp sometime.
User avatar
Morkin
Bugaboo
Posts: 3251
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:50 am
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: Graph Paper

Post by Morkin »

R-Tape wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:30 pm
Rorthron wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:53 pm No. I built an Excel spreadsheet for the whole screen, manually input each pixel as a 1 or 0 and used formulae to convert these into a string of values for 0x4000 and beyond (I hope I got that right).
Oof!
Rorthron wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:53 pm I did something similar for the attributes.
I'm struggling to visualise this (I get the pixels), I'll have to try it. How on earth did you decide how to place the attributes? DId ZX-Paint not come into this somewhere?!
Rorthron's 'graphics-by-Excel'...

Image


A couple of the formulas were wrong unfortunately... I was going to ask him to correct them without telling him which were wrong, but I thought it might give him a nervous breakdown... :lol:
My Speccy site: thirdharmoniser.com
User avatar
Joefish
Rick Dangerous
Posts: 2041
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:26 am

Re: Graph Paper

Post by Joefish »

Joefish wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:32 am The sprites and font in Buzzsaw+ were designed as binary data statements in the PASMO listing!
R-Tape wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:26 pmIt works! Though I assumed you used contemporary packages, I pictured you agonising over every pixel for months.
I wrote a sprite routine to display the 16x16 sprites, then cut and pasted a load of 00000000b,00000000b lines into the code, switched the edit cursor to overwrite and typed in the 1s I wanted, compiling and running every so often to see what they looked like! Nothing was done in an art package or on paper. To be honest, when you are trying to see what can be achieved with narrow attributes and you're changing one pixel at a time back and forth for ages, it doesn't really matter what you're doing it in - the only thing that counts is what it looks like when you display it in the game. Particularly for attributes - you can fiddle with some mouse-driven setting system or just overtype 1s and 0s in your data - it doesn't take any longer, and in some ways it's easier as you don't then have the hassle of translating your images into code later on.

The original LDI version of my multicolour code could only change every second attribute on every second line, so the atttributes were 8x2 but offeset one pixel vertically in the two halves of the sprite. You can still see the after-effects of designing that way in the sprites, particular on levels 5-10 where the sprites have coloured masks and headbands that don't always go straight across.

The font was done the same way - loads of 00000000b in blocks of 8 with a comment to say which character it is, filled in with 1s by hand!

I have gone onto the graph paper for my Bertrand Bubblethwaite sprites, to get the hang of designing for 8x2 multicolour. This involves scrolling though so it's getting tricky to work out what can go where. And although I can sketch out animations on paper or in a paint program, there's still no substitute for actually seeing them animated in the game code. And given that I'm going for Manic Miner-style, combining the animation with the pre-shifting, that means I need a moving sprite routine up and running to start with.
User avatar
arkannoyed
Manic Miner
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:56 am
Location: Northamptonshire

Re: Graph Paper

Post by arkannoyed »

Anyone remember the ZX Microfairs that used to be held in the Horticultural Halls in Westminster?

Probably around 1985 I somehow acquired a graphics design pad with tear-off sheets made by Protek.

Probably 5 or so years ago, I recreated it from a scan of the original in Illustrator, so if you print this off, then you'll have quite a nice
clean graphical design sheet to play with.

I did also produce a 'live' version that need a decent PC speed to run on, but allows you to actually re-colour each pixel square.

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/9qt6ahrc2x972l ... e.pdf?dl=1
User avatar
arkannoyed
Manic Miner
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:56 am
Location: Northamptonshire

Re: Graph Paper

Post by arkannoyed »

If you're printing it, usually a laser printer gives the best result.

Looks like this is a busier forum than old WOS, where I usually go. Didn't know about this!!
User avatar
Rorthron
Dynamite Dan
Posts: 1644
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:35 pm

Re: Graph Paper

Post by Rorthron »

Nice! I remember those Protek sheets. If my printer's up to it, I might give them ago.

And welcome to the forum!
User avatar
PeterJ
Site Admin
Posts: 6854
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:19 pm
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: Graph Paper

Post by PeterJ »

arkannoyed wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:48 am Looks like this is a busier forum than old WOS, where I usually go. Didn't know about this!!
Welcome to the forums. If you can help spread the awareness of the site it would be much appreciated.
User avatar
arkannoyed
Manic Miner
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:56 am
Location: Northamptonshire

Re: Graph Paper

Post by arkannoyed »

Don't know about spreading awareness, but its always good to find somewhere with stuff going on. WOS can be a bit desolate these days. :cry:
Rob M
Drutt
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 03, 2022 12:16 pm

Re: Graph Paper

Post by Rob M »

arkannoyed wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:46 am Probably around 1985 I somehow acquired a graphics design pad with tear-off sheets made by Protek.

Probably 5 or so years ago, I recreated it from a scan of the original in Illustrator, so if you print this off, then you'll have quite a nice
clean graphical design sheet to play with.
Thanks so much for this! I was looking for something like this, and this is perfect. :) Thank you for sharing!
User avatar
arkannoyed
Manic Miner
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:56 am
Location: Northamptonshire

Re: Graph Paper

Post by arkannoyed »

No problem at all. It’s good to print off and have a doodle. With the original pad that’s how I created loads of stuff I’ve still got hanging around on mgt +D disks. I used to photocopy the sheet, then use it again in the copier to get a pixelated version of images, mainly solid objects or logos.
User avatar
HEXdidnt
Manic Miner
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:40 pm
Location: Harrow, London, UK
Contact:

Re: Graph Paper

Post by HEXdidnt »

A couple of years ago, I had a bunch of pads printed up by a local print shop - ended up doing two versions - 256x192 in 8x8 blocks and one that would work as VGA 13h or C64/similar. My rationale was that I started learning pixel art on purpose-made pads that I bought at a ZX Microfair, and kept getting frustrated with standard 10x10 grid graph paper. I figured it might be worth making something for those of us who might feel more comfortable planning things with pencil and paper. They are press-printed, not digital, as I found that grids would be erased along with any pencil markings on the digitally-printed test copy.
Image Image

Image Image

I was selling them on Etsy for a while, but never got round to doing any proper promotion of them, so ended up dropping the listings. Still got quite a few of both available, if anyone's interested.
...Dropping litter in the zen garden of your mind

The Hub of all things HEXdidn't... | HEXdidn't... on YouTube ...on ZXArt ...on deviantart
Post Reply