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Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:21 pm
by R-Tape
There is a specially gifted 1% of the population that don't find AY Trackers impenetrable—SCIENTIFIC FACT.

Sorry for being dense here, but is someone willing to clearly explain the simplest way of creating a new file in Vortex Tracker, and inputting one line (or the minimum necessary), so that it makes a sound (any sound, even a horrible one) when you press play.

I've read up on how the AY chip works, and even still I am closer to being able to write my own AY engine than I am to get a single sound out of an Vortex Tracker.

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:29 pm
by lister_of_smeg
I know this doesn't answer your question, but have you tried Arkos Tracker 2?

http://www.julien-nevo.com/arkostracker/

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:34 pm
by utz
https://chipmusic.org/forums/topic/27/v ... racker-ii/ ;)

Btw the most recent version of VTII is available at https://bitbucket.org/ivanpirog/vortext ... downloads/ . The above tutorial is for original VTII though, but it should be enough to get you started either way.

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:57 pm
by hikoki

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:25 am
by djnzx48
Just to note, a couple of things to watch out for in VT 2.5 are the "Envelope as Note" and "Decimal for Noise Level in pattern and sample" options. I don't recommend saving your song with either of them enabled, as it will get corrupted if you use envelope notes lower than C-1 or noise values >= $0a. It should be fine to use them otherwise as long as they're turned off for saving.

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:48 pm
by R-Tape
It's still 'Vortex Tracker Help', but a different problem, so I'll post it here.

Someone has provided me with an .AY file that gives the following error when opened in both VT 2 and 2.5.
Text module loader error

Module not found (line: 1)
Any ideas?

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:20 pm
by PROSM
R-Tape wrote: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:48 pm It's still 'Vortex Tracker Help', but a different problem, so I'll post it here.

Someone has provided me with an .AY file that gives the following error when opened in both VT 2 and 2.5.
Text module loader error

Module not found (line: 1)
Any ideas?
.AY files are generally used to store music rips from games; they contain the original music handler code and the accompanying data, so the music player is essentially an emulator without video output. As such, I don't think .AY files will open in VT. I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject however, so I may be wrong.

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:18 pm
by R-Tape
PROSM wrote: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:20 pm .AY files are generally used to store music rips from games; they contain the original music handler code and the accompanying data, so the music player is essentially an emulator without video output. As such, I don't think .AY files will open in VT. I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject however, so I may be wrong.
Cheers. I've asked for more info on how it was made (it's for Woot), but I've not heard back yet. Depending what I hear back, I might have to miss this one out.

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:20 pm
by doone128
hikoki wrote: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:57 pm https://youtu.be/CsInbfXy04A
This is what I watched to get me started. It’s all still seems a bit crackers but managed to get a tune or two out of it so far. (When I say ‘tune’ I mean that in the least possible musical sense)

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:27 pm
by R-Tape
doone128 wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:20 pm This is what I watched to get me started. It’s all still seems a bit crackers but managed to get a tune or two out of it so far. (When I say ‘tune’ I mean that in the least possible musical sense)
Cheers. I've seen that video, and (after having a little chuckle that David Saphier talks like Justin Moorhouse) I managed to get Vortex tracker to make a noise! I haven't taken it any further because I would need months or years of playing around to get the vaguest understanding of music. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm at the 'old dog new tricks' stage of life...

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:43 am
by doone128
R-Tape wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:27 pm
doone128 wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:20 pm This is what I watched to get me started. It’s all still seems a bit crackers but managed to get a tune or two out of it so far. (When I say ‘tune’ I mean that in the least possible musical sense)
Cheers. I've seen that video, and (after having a little chuckle that David Saphier talks like Justin Moorhouse) I managed to get Vortex tracker to make a noise! I haven't taken it any further because I would need months or years of playing around to get the vaguest understanding of music. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm at the 'old dog new tricks' stage of life...
The old dog is never too old! I'm in my 40s and can confirm that it's still possible to learn this stuff! z80 machine code is another matter and one that I'm failing at badly, but you can do this for sure! I just followed the video step by step to recreate the tune he creates in the video and then went from there. Probably also helps that I bought myself a small USB keyboard - link below. Makes it much easier to come up with a tune than stabbing at the QWERTY keys!

(https://www.amazon.co.uk/M-Audio-Keysta ... 139&sr=8-3)

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:08 am
by djnzx48
Vortex Tracker has also undergone a large number of improvements and bugfixes since this topic was created, potentially including fixes for the issues I mentioned earlier. It looks like a Delphi license is needed to build the project though.

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:17 am
by doone128
djnzx48 wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:08 am Vortex Tracker has also undergone a large number of improvements and bugfixes since this topic was created, potentially including fixes for the issues I mentioned earlier. It looks like a Delphi license is needed to build the project though.
Yes - forgot to mention that I'm using Vortex Tracker 2.5!

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:28 am
by djnzx48
doone128 wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:17 am
djnzx48 wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:08 am Vortex Tracker has also undergone a large number of improvements and bugfixes since this topic was created, potentially including fixes for the issues I mentioned earlier. It looks like a Delphi license is needed to build the project though.
Yes - forgot to mention that I'm using Vortex Tracker 2.5!
The latest release appears to be version 2.6, although that's been out for a while now.

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:03 am
by doone128
Thanks - although the downloads tab only has 2.5. How on earth to you decipher what's going on on that page to download 2.6?

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:35 am
by Ralf
The old dog is never too old! I'm in my 40s and can confirm that it's still possible to learn this stuff! z80 machine code is another matter and one that I'm failing at badly, but you can do this for sure! I just followed the video step by step to recreate the tune he creates in the video and then went from there. Probably also helps that I bought myself a small USB keyboard - link below. Makes it much easier to come up with a tune than stabbing at the QWERTY keys!
I guess I'm an old dog too ;) Really don't have any faintiest idea how to start with making music.

And there are actually two levels of confusion here. First thing is mastering different trackers interface. Which are usually quite user unfriendly.

But another thing is making pleasant music, not some combination of random noises. It's like being able to write and being able to write poetry.

Speaking of keyboard I believe that experts of making Spectrum music like Gasman or Yerzmyey don't "type" music on standard PC keyboards but rather use some kind of piano like keyboards connected to their computers to create their songs. I would like to hear if it's true or not.

I asked Yerzmyey once a philosophical question ;) "Do you first think up music in your head and then write it down? Or do you just start pressing keys without any plan and then accept the result or not?" He was quite puzzled ;) I guess that at some moment making music is like walking - you do it but you don't analyse it much.

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:47 pm
by djnzx48
doone128 wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:03 am Thanks - although the downloads tab only has 2.5. How on earth to you decipher what's going on on that page to download 2.6?
I don't think the binaries have been 'officially' released. There are copies out there though - IIRC n1k-o used 2.6 for the Aliens: Neoplasma music.
Ralf wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:35 am And there are actually two levels of confusion here. First thing is mastering different trackers interface. Which are usually quite user unfriendly.
Whether trackers are user-friendly or not is probably a point of personal preference. One of the advantages of tracker interfaces is that they are usually more compact than traditional piano roll interfaces.

The initial difficulty I faced when using a tracker was having to remember what each of the columns were for, and what numbers/letters are supposed to go in them. If you're starting out the majority of the columns can be ignored - the most important ones for PT3/Vortex are note, sample and volume. The note columns are just a more compact way of representing note pitches than the standard height on a staff.
Ralf wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:35 am But another thing is making pleasant music, not some combination of random noises. It's like being able to write and being able to write poetry.
This can get more intuitive with practice. I still have MIDI files of the first 'songs' I composed over ten years ago, and they all sound like you describe - completely random sequences of notes with no sense of tune or structure. A way to get better at this might be to try covering an existing tune, focusing on the notes and timing. Having an idea of how the different scales work could also help.
Ralf wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:35 am Speaking of keyboard I believe that experts of making Spectrum music like Gasman or Yerzmyey don't "type" music on standard PC keyboards but rather use some kind of piano like keyboards connected to their computers to create their songs. I would like to hear if it's true or not.
I'm clearly not an expert, but I only ever used a standard PC keyboard for my songs. Spectrum music is generally input note by note rather than performed in real-time, so a MIDI keyboard doesn't give much of an advantage over a PC keyboard for that particular purpose IMO. MIDI keyboards are more useful for playing around and coming up with ideas.
Ralf wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:35 am I asked Yerzmyey once a philosophical question ;) "Do you first think up music in your head and then write it down? Or do you just start pressing keys without any plan and then accept the result or not?" He was quite puzzled ;) I guess that at some moment making music is like walking - you do it but you don't analyse it much.
Personally I need to have a basic foundation ready before trying to write anything down. Others may find it easier to come up with tunes on command, but I can't do it. Ideas may also arrive at random times when you're not expecting them to.

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:15 am
by djnzx48
There are a couple of presentations about AY/YM music scheduled for CAFe demoparty on Friday. Could be worth checking out if you understand Russian.

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:48 pm
by doone128
So here’s what I came up with after watching the tutorial video on here. I made it originally to go on a Spectrum Next game but by the time I’d got this completed, the guy had got music from elsewhere so I decided to use it in the promo of the ZZAP! Retro Gaming Event.

Any opinions and thoughts appreciated!

https://www.facebook.com/21527147016574 ... 96?sfns=mo

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:22 pm
by R-Tape
doone128 wrote: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:48 pm Any opinions and thoughts appreciated!
It's a thumbs up from me. Good percussion and lead-in. Top work. It would fit an action/adventure game very nicely.

If you can do this—you can definitely do z80 asm!

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:01 pm
by doone128
Wow! Thanks!

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:21 pm
by R-Tape
djnzx48 wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:15 am There are a couple of presentations about AY/YM music scheduled for CAFe demoparty on Friday.
That is a SUPERB lineup, especially the multicolour lecture (though granted it's not related to this topic). It'd be great to have these kind of events in the UK. I could imagine the likes of gasman doing interesting talks.
Could be worth checking out if you understand Russian.
Assuming they get made available I'll have a look, but unless Denis Grachev is planning to sing this kid's song I'm going to struggle to say the least!

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:10 pm
by uglifruit
Apologies if I'm being really stupid, but having made something on Vortex Tracker 2.5, I can export it as a .tap file ...
... but how do then play it on a Spectrum.

I'm left with the two data files, that I can load - apparently the player, and the data

But given ...
Image

I thought ...

Randomize usr 49152 (to initialise)
then
Randomize usr 49157 (to play it)

seemed sensible, looking at the 'HINTS' - but that doesn't work

What am I doing wrong?

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:18 pm
by R-Tape
All looks correct to me.

Are you doing LOAD""CODE twice (for the player then the music)?

Then for playing:

CALL 49152 once only

then repeatedly call 49157 once every frame (or 10 PAUSE 1: RANDOMIZE USR 49157: GOTO 10 if BASIC).

Re: Vortex Tracker help

Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:33 pm
by Alessandro
Here is a simple program that will play the music indefinitely (if "Disable Loop" hasn't been checked in the export preferences) unless a key is pressed. Run it with RANDOMIZE USR 49120 after you have loaded both the player and the music data. Change the value of ORG in order to adapt the program to the export address (the program is 31 bytes long but I rounded its example address to 49120 which is 32 bytes less than 49152).

Code: Select all

  PLAYER EQU 49152

  ORG 49120
 
  LD A,1
  LD (PLAYER+10),A
  CALL PLAYER
  EI
LOOP:
  HALT
  CALL PLAYER+5
  XOR A
  IN A,(254)
  CPL 
  AND 31
  JR NZ,FINE
  LD A,(PLAYER+10)
  RLA
  JR NC,LOOP
FINE:
  CALL PLAYER+8
  RET