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When Level 1 isn't the best level...
- PeteProdge
- Bugaboo
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When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Now, in theory, level 1 is always the best level. It's the one EVERY PLAYER will see of course, so you make it look pretty damned good. Especially if you're making a coin-op game for the arcades. That level 1 is an effective 'attract mode'. You make it so that the new player wants to stick some more coins in to progress. It's got to be inviting, visually impressive and also - crucially - 'teaching' you the game in a short space of time.
Later levels? Meh. Less effort goes into those, understandably.
However, there are occasions when later levels outdo the first level.
And here's a list I've come up with where... nah, sorry, none come to mind right now, but I'll wait for your replies and I'll say "yeah, I meant that one too".
Later levels? Meh. Less effort goes into those, understandably.
However, there are occasions when later levels outdo the first level.
And here's a list I've come up with where... nah, sorry, none come to mind right now, but I'll wait for your replies and I'll say "yeah, I meant that one too".
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
R-Type. Surely Level 3, where the entire level is a massive boss fight, has to count?
Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Not strictly the worst level, but I often wondered why Dinamic made the first level of Navy Moves so terribly tough that most gamers gave up and never experienced the (easier) later sections
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
R-Type is well-paced in that the first level has some great set-pieces. The ring of gun turrets that you can destroy in a chain reaction, and the most memorable boss of all. Level 2 goes full-on with the organic style of graphics and introduces the ground-tacking weapon. Though it's a bit samey all the way along. Level 3 really changes the game around with one giant ship being the level, but it would never have worked as the first stage if you weren't familiar with the controls. And Level 4 throws up a completely new style of play as you have to shoot and bludgeon your way through the ever-changing blockages. But after that, it's a bit rubbish really. There's nothing new to see at all, it just gets stupidly hard. And that's starting with the Level 4 boss. You really start to get sick of bosses that occupy so much of the screen you have nowhere to move. Which is why I don't think 3 is the best, though it is pretty original.
Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
The first stage of Target Renegade is faintly OK because when you start the game it's the time you can use pretty much all your fighting moves.
But it's too long and gets boring after a while - it's just repeat floors of going back and forth doing the same thing. And the motorbikes don't make an appearance on later levels so the skill learnt with the timing of your flying kicks isn't needed again.
Stage 2 (Streets) is OK but a bit easy, basically just a chance to rack up your score (which contributes to extra lives)
Stage 3 (Park) is the first major challenge as your enemies are a bit tougher, and it has the tomahawk
Stage 4 (Mall) is arguably the hardest level (and it has the dogs jumping around) - you need to perfect your back kicks for this one
Stage 5 (Pub) is probably my favourite. Just because it's a pub. Two stages, but if you CBA you can just swing at everyone with a pool cue, which is extremely satisfying
But it's too long and gets boring after a while - it's just repeat floors of going back and forth doing the same thing. And the motorbikes don't make an appearance on later levels so the skill learnt with the timing of your flying kicks isn't needed again.
Stage 2 (Streets) is OK but a bit easy, basically just a chance to rack up your score (which contributes to extra lives)
Stage 3 (Park) is the first major challenge as your enemies are a bit tougher, and it has the tomahawk
Stage 4 (Mall) is arguably the hardest level (and it has the dogs jumping around) - you need to perfect your back kicks for this one
Stage 5 (Pub) is probably my favourite. Just because it's a pub. Two stages, but if you CBA you can just swing at everyone with a pool cue, which is extremely satisfying
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Space Quest, never managed to pass those barriers on 1st level. After that it (maybe) becomes a funnier Pheenix clone.
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/4 ... pace_Quest
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/4 ... pace_Quest
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- Manic Miner
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
There was a point in Midnight Resistance, later in the game, where some storyline kicks in that felt a bit special. I recall the music being a bit sad.
Not sure about the level, though.
I always thought Boulder Dash got the accessibility right, beaming in at any nth level and of a different variation too.
Not sure about the level, though.
I always thought Boulder Dash got the accessibility right, beaming in at any nth level and of a different variation too.
Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
I'd say Jason's Gem is very much guilty of a tough first level, and I'd imagine most players never go through to the platform part of the game. The fact that there was potential permadeath in the first level didn't help. Nice interview here with the author Simon White:
http://www.wizwords.net/jasons-gem/
http://www.wizwords.net/jasons-gem/
- bluespikey
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Dare I say Airwolf?
Raid Over Moscow had that horrible skiddy aircraft hangar before you got to shoot anything.
Raid Over Moscow had that horrible skiddy aircraft hangar before you got to shoot anything.
Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Horace and the Spiders.
Those first two levels were really pants, just getting in the way of the Panic bit that you actually want to play.
Those first two levels were really pants, just getting in the way of the Panic bit that you actually want to play.
Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
IMHO Myth starts with good Hell level, continues with fantastic Greek level and continues with good Scandinavia level. Final level, Egypt somehow departs from gameplay being more cryptic and is probably worst level in game.
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- 5MinuteRetro
- Manic Miner
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Not sure I really buy into the premise — plenty of games have later levels better than the first — but one that immediately sprang to mind is Mr Wimpy.
The second level onwards was a decent-enough Burger Time clone but to get to that you had to endure a god-awful
Pssst-meets-Frogger ingredients collect-‘em-up thing. Bizarre and frustrating, then and now, IMHO.
The second level onwards was a decent-enough Burger Time clone but to get to that you had to endure a god-awful
Pssst-meets-Frogger ingredients collect-‘em-up thing. Bizarre and frustrating, then and now, IMHO.
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- PeteProdge
- Bugaboo
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Data East lawyer: "Right, time to check out this Brit game and ensure it's not a Burger Time rip-off, or I'll file a lawsuit immediately to these Manchester-based chancers!"5MinuteRetro wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:56 pm ...Mr Wimpy. The second level onwards was a decent-enough Burger Time clone but to get to that you had to endure a god-awful
Pssst-meets-Frogger ingredients collect-‘em-up thing. Bizarre and frustrating, then and now, IMHO.
*plays 40 seconds of the game*
Data East lawyer: "Ugh, that was truly terrible stuff, but it's not a Burger Time knock-off. That's today's work done."
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New video: Nine ZX Spectrum magazine controversies - How Crash, Your Sinclair and Sinclair User managed to offend the world!
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- 5MinuteRetro
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Lol -- probably bang on. Mind you, the game itself is, of course, licensed by/from Wimpy. Perhaps Ocean worked the same Jedi mind tricks on that corporation's lawyers!PeteProdge wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 3:06 pm Data East lawyer: "Right, time to check out this Brit game and ensure it's not a Burger Time rip-off, or I'll file a lawsuit immediately to these Manchester-based chancers!"
*plays 40 seconds of the game*
Data East lawyer: "Ugh, that was truly terrible stuff, but it's not a Burger Time knock-off. That's today's work done."
Retro stuff, real quick
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- Lee Bee
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
This principle is definitely true of music. Level 1 ALWAYS has the best tune!
- Juan F. Ramirez
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
I'd also add Beach Head, the further you go, the cooler levelbluespikey wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:36 pm Raid Over Moscow had that horrible skiddy aircraft hangar before you got to shoot anything.
Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Combat School I guess.
The shooting levels are way better than the rubbish waggler first level.
That said, the last two levels are some of the very worst on the Speccy.
The shooting levels are way better than the rubbish waggler first level.
That said, the last two levels are some of the very worst on the Speccy.
- Juan F. Ramirez
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Horace Goes Skiing
Eskimo Eddie
Eskimo Eddie
Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
One thing related, the first level should never be too difficult either (As well as said, looking 'nice') otherwise it can be a serious turn off
I'll concur with Beach Head as posted above too, except perhaps the horizontal 'tank' level, I think its just the jumpy scrolling that I did not like.
I'll concur with Beach Head as posted above too, except perhaps the horizontal 'tank' level, I think its just the jumpy scrolling that I did not like.
Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
I was wondering when these would appear. The first two levels of Horace and the Spiders is basically just jump button timing. The only plus is that it probably takes <60 seconds to do both screens.
I can never decide which part of Horace Goes Skiing is more fun, it's a close one for me. I quite like the Frogger part, but I think the Skiing level takes it.
No mention of Manic Miner so far? I never liked Central Cavern much for a first level. Despite only having one nasty, the annoying spiky bush and stalactite positioning at the top makes the level a bit repetitive until you get your jumps right. Compared with some of the imaginative later levels like the Kong beast ones, it's a bit dull.
But then you can also argue that the first level forces you to learn most of the mechanics (conveyers, quicksand), which sets you up for the rest of the game.
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- Lee Bee
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
I nominate The Flintstones.
Wanna drive the Flintstones car down the street at high speed? (Level 2)
Wanna go out on the town with Barney and enjoy a fun game of bowling? (Level 3)
Or how about playing an actual platform game that's everything you'd imagine a Flintstones game would be? (Level 4)
Nope. You can't do any of that fun stuff until you've spent what feels like an eternity painting the living room wall because your nagging wife says so. (Level 1)
Now to be fair, I really do love the cosy little domestic setting. It's cute. And painting the wall is (in theory) quite satisfying. Plus the whole level shouldn't take much more than 5 minutes, which is how long you get to do it.
The problem is that painting is no joy at all. The controls are incredibly clunky and frustrating and you can't just paint anywhere you want, you need to constantly move ladders around to reach different places. The 5-minute time limit is actually quite merciless and the game is really unforgiving - when the time's up you inevitably find there's a few pixels of blank wall you've missed somewhere, which isn't good enough, meaning you have to keep starting from scratch over and over again, watching as all your hard painting work disappears!
So what's meant to be a fun little level ends up feeling like a never-ending chore, one which I rarely got past. This is all made even more depressing by the fact that you're under the thumb of your bitch wife who bosses Fred around and demeans him with remarks like "Pebbles can paint better"!
If I'd made this game, Fred's interactions with Wilma would be quite different. Level 1 would be far more satisfying and Fred would leave his house knowing he was the man!
Wanna drive the Flintstones car down the street at high speed? (Level 2)
Wanna go out on the town with Barney and enjoy a fun game of bowling? (Level 3)
Or how about playing an actual platform game that's everything you'd imagine a Flintstones game would be? (Level 4)
Nope. You can't do any of that fun stuff until you've spent what feels like an eternity painting the living room wall because your nagging wife says so. (Level 1)
Now to be fair, I really do love the cosy little domestic setting. It's cute. And painting the wall is (in theory) quite satisfying. Plus the whole level shouldn't take much more than 5 minutes, which is how long you get to do it.
The problem is that painting is no joy at all. The controls are incredibly clunky and frustrating and you can't just paint anywhere you want, you need to constantly move ladders around to reach different places. The 5-minute time limit is actually quite merciless and the game is really unforgiving - when the time's up you inevitably find there's a few pixels of blank wall you've missed somewhere, which isn't good enough, meaning you have to keep starting from scratch over and over again, watching as all your hard painting work disappears!
So what's meant to be a fun little level ends up feeling like a never-ending chore, one which I rarely got past. This is all made even more depressing by the fact that you're under the thumb of your bitch wife who bosses Fred around and demeans him with remarks like "Pebbles can paint better"!
If I'd made this game, Fred's interactions with Wilma would be quite different. Level 1 would be far more satisfying and Fred would leave his house knowing he was the man!
Last edited by Lee Bee on Wed May 24, 2023 1:09 pm, edited 14 times in total.
Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
That's a good example - overly finicky to get spot on.bluespikey wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:36 pm Raid Over Moscow had that horrible skiddy aircraft hangar before you got to shoot anything.
Another one would be the first level of Death Star Interceptor - trying to aim the X-Wing at a spot about 5 pixels wide.
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Also, I don't remember name of the game, it was an adventure but the very first thing you had to do was to solve 15 slide puzzle on time.
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Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
I really like Jason' Gem, though it should probably top you back up to four lives when you complete the first stage (if not the second as well)!stupidget wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 2:01 pm I'd say Jason's Gem is very much guilty of a tough first level, and I'd imagine most players never go through to the platform part of the game. The fact that there was potential permadeath in the first level didn't help. Nice interview here with the author Simon White:
http://www.wizwords.net/jasons-gem/
I did once think it might be fun to design a bigger adventure-themed game as a sequel to it - something more like Metroid, but stuffed full of references to the original game, like NPCs based on the (let's be honest, bit rubbish) sprites from the platform section. But I've forgotten most of the plans...
Re: When Level 1 isn't the best level...
Replace Andy Capp with Fred FlintstoneLee Bee wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 12:22 pm So what's meant to be a fun little level ends up feeling like a never-ending chore, one which I rarely got past. This is all made even more depressing by the fact that you're under the thumb of your bitch wife who bosses Fred around and demeans him with remarks like "Pebbles can paint better"!
If I'd made this game, Fred's interactions with Wilma would be quite different. Level 1 would be far more satisfying and Fred would leave his house knowing he was the man!
ZX Spectrum Reviews REST API: http://zxspectrumreviews.co.uk/