Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Anything relating to non Sinclair computers from the 1980's, 90's or even before.
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flatduckrecords
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by flatduckrecords »

TMD2003 wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:57 pm All right, so there were sprites... but having never tried to program a sprite on a C64 I couldn't say if they're usable in BASIC or not.
It's POKEs all the way down


code

Code: Select all

1 REM UP, UP, AND AWAY
5 PRINT "(CLR/HOME)"
10 V = 53248 : REM START OF DISPLAY CHIP
11 POKE V + 21,4 : REM ENABLE SPRITE 2
12 POKE 2042, 13: REM SPRITE 2 DATA FROM BLOCK 13
20 FOR N = 0 TO 62: READ Q : POKE 832 + N,Q: NEXT
30 FOR X = 0 TO 200
40 POKE V + 4,X: REM UPDATE X COORDINATES
50 POKE V + 5,X: REM UPDATE Y COORDINATES
60 NEXT X
70 GOTO 30
200 DATA 0,127,0, 1,255,192,3,255,224,3,231,224 J
210 DATA 7,217,240,7,223,240,7,217,240,3,231,224
220 DATA 3,255,224,3,255,224,2,255,160, 1, 127,64
230 DATA 1,62,64,0, 156, 128,0, 156, 128,0,73,0,0,73,0l
240 DATA 0,62,0,0,62,0,0,62,0,0,28,0
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by PeterJ »

@TMD2003,

Many of the early commodore 64 listings were pretty much unreadable, unless of course you had extremely good eyesight and expert knowledge of commodore control codes. Mainly because early printers couldn't cope with the characters. Later magazines came up with various solutions which improved things. I remember trying a few type-ins, and soon giving up.

Image

In terms of reading material, the bible was always the Commodore Programmers Reference Guide. This was published very early on.

It's been covered previously that the reason why Commodore BASIC is so awful, is that Commodore didn't want to pay Microsoft a per machine fee.

I play C64 games relatively often..The sound is especially splendid. My heart will always belong to the Spectrum though.
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by Alessandro »

SteveSmith wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:39 pm Would it be fair to say that the Speccy was more user-friendly and accessible? I was into writing Basic programs pretty much from day-1 on my Speccy, but for the breif time I had a C64, I don't remember even thinking about it.
More than fair if you ask me! One of the funniest recollections of my early days with the Spectrum is breaking into the Horizons tape programs and changing something just to see what happens next. Also, the computer "told" you the nature of your mistakes and did not accept wrongly composed lines, instead of just printing "syntax error".
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by Pegaz »

I don't know the answer, because I did upgrade to the C64 during 1987, when my Spectrum 48k broke, after serving me well for almost four years.
Perhaps this topic could be labeled "UK only", because the rest of the planet had no such dilemma.
However, it is interesting how some similar arguments of French Amstrad fans are now becoming quite acceptable, while they seemed strange to us before. ;)
But that's perfectly fine.
I'd probably think the same myself, if I lived in the UK, but I grew up in ex-Yugoslavia, where both computers were almost equally popular, Spectrum until the mid-80s, but after that the C64 became extremely dominant until the early 90s.
In my case it also coincided that two of my good friends already owned a C64 at that time, which was the deciding factor for me.
Sometime during 1989, a friend got a Spectrum+, but I was quite disappointed with the software support, too many new games were just rushed monochrome ports, while the C64 had more and more mega hits, including excellent Amiga conversions, which convinced me that it was a valid upgrade.
The next step was the Amiga 500 in 1993, and after that in the mid-90s, I went back myself to the Spectrum and C64, through the early PC emulators and from then until now, I've never had to choose just one model.
To summarize, Spectrum and C64 were never real competitors for me, because they are so different in their essence and conception.
C64 was, roughly speaking, a good gaming console with a keyboard and the Spectrum was an excellent entry-level computer, exceptional value for money.
Millions of users have made them legendary machines, I won't do either one a favor by underestimating the other.
In terms of nostalgia, I always give Spectrum the edge, probably because it was the first and as time passes, it always seems to me like wine - the older the better. ;)
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by spider »

For me...

I will start by saying it would be a sideways step rather than an upgrade or downgrade.

I was not keen on the actual style of the breadbin itself (sorry) the slimline design I did like that appeared much later. The original breadbin keyboard felt good to type on though I'll admit.

Several things put me off:

In magazine listings it appeared their Basic was full of curious symbols and made not a huge sense to me (at that age anyway)

The colours always looked a bit brownish and the graphics blocky. Without compression or turbo loaders the games would take ages to load and you had to have an expensive tape drive and the disc system was not great either, the early 5.25's at least.

Talking of loading speed iirc its about 50 bytes/sec giving a baud rate of around 550-650 if my maths is correct ? Its going to be though lets say 30% slower than Speccy. To be fair a lot of titles did use compression / turbo loaders, but if that was just the 'backups' or originals I do not know.

I do hear (no pun) good things about the SID chip but for me the beeper and later the AY chip were quite good enough.


Perhaps strangely I did like the look of the C+4 case itself, not just because of its colour it just looked "right" somehow.


I did have one for a short time I was given it. Only had a couple of games with it but Dynamite Dan was great fun, although looked a little strange (but not compared to the CPC version!) but sounded excellent. I gave it away a few months later. :)
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by Pegaz »

spider wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:18 pm For me...
As far as I know, the first C64 turbo tapes date back to 1984 and have been used in the original titles and backups, since then.
Later, the loaders became very advanced, like the famous Ocean loader 4 and 5, which I remember the most, because they had music, scrolling text, border stripes and drawing loading screen, during the process.
Here is a nice video showing the progress of the C64 loaders:

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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by 1024MAK »

I’m not that keen on bread….

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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by firelord »

I never knew any c64 owners.

All my friends that owned any type of computer went for an Amiga 500 afterwards...
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by Manu128k »

I ... must ... stop ... making ... silly ...memes

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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by Mpk »

Manu128k wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 6:42 pm I ... must ... stop ... making ... silly ...memes

This is the sort of scientific rigour I was hoping for.
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by toot_toot »

I did upgrade to a C64, but it was in the early 90s!

Yeah, it doesn’t quite count… but I had a few friends that did upgrade to a C64 in the mid 80s, about 86 or so. And while we all hated those “commie” owners, deep down I thought some of the games were incredible compared to the Spectrum versions. Yes, some of the games took an absolute age to load, but some had great music while they loaded. The early US Gold Games were so much better on the C64 and I still get nostalgic when I see this.



It got to 1987 and I upgraded to a +2 for my Xmas. Well, when I say upgraded, I still kept my rubber keyed beermat. Looking back, I probably should have got a C64 that Xmas and had the best of both worlds. But I didn’t.

It wasn’t until the early 90s that I saw a C64 on sale in the local ads, by this time I had moved on to an Amiga, but I still had my Spectrum. I had a great time playing the bundled games and I managed to get a copy of History in the Making (the US Gold Compilation) which was brilliant on the C64. Unfortunately it was almost impossible to find any retail games in the shops by then.

And while I still love the Spectrum, I’ve managed to get over the playground rivalry and I love the C64 as well. Both had their strengths, and weaknesses, but having both means you can get some great games that played to the strengths of each platform.
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by toot_toot »

It also reminded my how my best friend upgraded to a C64 in 1986, because his old man saw Impossible Mission in the shop and decided it was a million times better than the Spectrum version.

Which was definitely true.
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by Alessandro »

Alessandro wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2023 2:02 pm N.B. I assume that, as for the other thread, "update" is meant as irony and not in the literal meaning.
Sorry I meant "upgrade" not "update". Just for clarity.
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by Mpk »

Alessandro wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 9:38 am N.B. I assume that, as for the other thread, "upgrade" is meant as irony and not in the literal meaning.
Well, yes. I was mostly joking.
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by Swainy »

Why did I not upgrade to a C64? Because I had a Spectrum which I absolutely loved. I was more than happy with what I had.
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by 1024MAK »

Would putting a Speccy in a C64 case and reworking the keyboard so that it works with the Speccy board be an upgrade?…

It’s possible to get a SID to work with an Acorn BBC B, but I don’t know if anyone has tried to get an original SID to work with a Z80 based system.

Mark
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by flatduckrecords »

1024MAK wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:49 am It’s possible to get a SID to work with an Acorn BBC B, but I don’t know if anyone has tried to get an original SID to work with a Z80 based system.
Yeah, @Quazar has a SID interface that's designed for RC2014. With the correct bus interface it can work on SAM Coupé (and Spectrum, I think, with a suitable I/O address).

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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by Pegaz »

This is interesting project, I'd like to see it in action:
https://8bithardware.wixsite.com/websit ... ge/zx-tsid
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by Alessandro »

1024MAK wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:49 am...I don’t know if anyone has tried to get an original SID to work with a Z80 based system.
Yes.

https://zxbyte.ru/sid_blaster_en.htm

However the project has not gone further since 2012.
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by TMD2003 »

Manu128k wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2023 6:42 pm I ... must ... stop ... making ... silly ...memes
¡SOY IRRESPETUOSO A LA SUCIEDAD!
¿PUEDES VER QUE SOY SERIO?

SALGAN DE MI CAMINO, TODOS USTEDES.
ESTE NO ES LUGAR PARA HOLGAZANAS.
ÚNETE A MÍ O MUERE. ¿PUEDE HACER MENOS?

¡QUÉ LOGOTIPO CORPORATIVO VALIENTE!
¡ACEPTO EL RETO DE SEÑOR BRILLO!
¡PODER IMPRESIONANTE!

¿ALGUNA PLANIDAD PARA EL VERANO?

¡UTILICE SEÑOR BRILLO, PARA MEJOR AFORTUNADO LAVADOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


DISCLAIMER: I barely know any Spanish at all, and most of what I do know comes from Spanish Spectrum games that haven't been translated. If anything above is wrong, blame Google Translate, and my obviously incorrect life choices where I didn't take Spanish for an option in my final year at A-level. As long as I know the following words, I'm all right: izquierda, derecha, arriba, abajo, fuego, puntos, teclado, jugar, cerveza.
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by 1024MAK »

Spoiler
I AM DISRESPECTFUL TO DIRT!
CAN YOU SEE THAT I AM SERIOUS?

GET OUT OF MY WAY, ALL OF YOU.
THIS IS NO PLACE FOR LAZERS.
JOIN ME OR DIE. CAN YOU DO LESS?

WHAT A BRAVE CORPORATE LOGO!
I ACCEPT THE LORD SHINE CHALLENGE!
AWESOME POWER!

ANY PLANS FOR THE SUMMER?

USE MR SHINE, FOR BETTER LUCKY WASHING!
Yeah, okay Mr Muscle!
Image
:lol:

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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by spider »

1024MAK wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:49 am Would putting a Speccy in a C64 case and reworking the keyboard so that it works with the Speccy board be an upgrade?…

It’s possible to get a SID to work with an Acorn BBC B, but I don’t know if anyone has tried to get an original SID to work with a Z80 based system.

Mark
I like your thinking to the first idea. Although I did have thoughts on putting said Speccy into the 'B case , Dragon case or Atmos case , but that's going off topic.


On topic, I would be interested to know if anyone 'upgraded' to the C128 ? , now as I recall that has a Z80 as well, even though I suspect most use outside 'office' type programs was done in 64 mode. This is vaguely on topic too Mark as you mentioned the SID and the Z80 of which the C128 has... Food for thought.
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by 1024MAK »

Not in the 1980s, no, I did not go the Commodore route. AT ALL.

But over the last fifteen years (ish), I have somehow ended up with rather a lot of Commodore computers, including a C128 and a C128DCR as well as a C64 (bread bin) and some C64C machines.

Yes, the C128 has a Z80, but it’s dog slow in that mode :-(

Wikipedia says that in Z80 mode, all I/O still has to be done by the other (6502 like) processor.

Mark
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“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb :dance
Looking forward to summer later in the year.
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by spider »

1024MAK wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:30 pm Yes, the C128 has a Z80, but it’s dog slow in that mode :-(

Wikipedia says that in Z80 mode, all I/O still has to be done by the other (6502 like) processor.

Mark
Ah I get it, "Tube" (sort of)

I've never seen a 128DCR 'in the plastic' as such only pictures, the "split box" one, I know what you mean.
Spoiler
Off topic: I'm hugely looking forward to the "upgrade to Dragon32/64 and upgrade to Oric Atmos" topics as were not hugely common machines (afaik)
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Re: Why did you NOT upgrade to a C64 in the 80s?

Post by TMD2003 »

1024MAK wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:43 pm Yeah, okay Mr Muscle!
Z Advert identification error, 0:1

Or should I have put that as an MSX-style error message?
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